License to Sin and Building a Strawman

[RichardBurger]

Am I to assume brother, that you've never really studied the Old Testament prophets to any real depth?

That's what your statement causes me to think, because Apostle Paul's preaching of the 'mystery' that Salvation would also go to the Gentiles was preached from the Old Testament prophets. That's where Paul was pulling from. And to cast off those OT prophecies would be to cast off Paul's preaching to the Gentiles. Obviously then, not everything God gave through the OT writers was only to, nor only about Israel. That's why the Gentiles need to study the Old Testament Books too.




That's true, but it's also true that the Four Gospels ARE the MAIN WITNESS of The Gospel of Jesus Christ TO ALL PEOPLES, not just to Israel alone.




Per my Bible, quite a number of believers were among the Jews in the Apostle's days. Paul even taught in Rom.11:1-5 that God had even preserved a remnant of Israel to Himself within The Gospel. The Book of Acts has many details about Jews that converted to Christ Jesus.

So just WHO really lost Christ's Salvatiion, for the believers of Israel certainly DID NOT?

That's where that false doctrine you've been taught falls by the wayside again, because it tries to separate ALL of Israel away from Christ's Salvation, which is a lie of course. I wonder how Messianic Jews here that have believed on Christ Jesus feel about that?




That certainly is a bunch of hogwash. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is to ALL peoples, and the idea of God's Grace CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM IT, not when It is preached to Israelites, nor when preached to Gentiles. You do greatly err in not understanding The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But what was it that was actually 'hidden' which Paul spoke of? It was the idea that God's Grace through His Salvation Plan by Christ Jesus, the very SAME Salvation He planned from the beginning, first given to Israel, was to also go to the Gentiles, and that many Gentiles would ALSO believe. That His Grace only began with Paul and Gentile believers is such a false doctrine, I must assign it to another one of the 'doctrines of the devil'.

Paul said this about a remnant of the seed of Israel...

Rom 11:4-6
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(KJV)




Yet, what you have been preaching is a false separation between Jews and Gentiles, for that is exactly what declaring two separate gospels, one for each group, does! You're listening to another 'spirit', not The Holy Spirit, when you push the false dual gospel idea.

You GOT that false dual gospel idea from heeding men's traditions, for several others here on the forum have that same idea as you about two gospels, and that doctrine never came into being until the 1800's with John Darby and the Pre-trib rapture theory. Both of those doctrines are un-Biblical.

You can assume anything you like, and I know you will. But that does not make it true.

Many just can't get it through there hard head that Jesus came to setup the kingdom on earth that God promised to the Jews. Jesus came preaching the the kindom was at hand and it was. Where ever Jesus is, that is the kingdom. BUT THE JEWS REJECTED HIM AND HIS KINGDOM. so God has turned to the Gentiles with the gospel of God's grace. But most can not see any difference in the "Gospel of the Kingdom at Hand" and the Gospel of grace. IMHO God has blinded men today just as the Jews were blinded so they could not see the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom has been put on hold until the time of the Gentles is fulfilled. The Gospel of grace was hidden in God and revealed to Paul. It was a new Gospel.

Foreseeing-Beforehand-would justify

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Note the words “foreseeing“, “would justify“, “beforehand“. They clearly indicate that faith was not instituted at that time. It was to be a future event. But the religious do not see these words as written, they make excuses for them.

 

[veteran]

You can assume anything you like, and I know you will. But that does not make it true.

Many just can't get it through there hard head that Jesus came to setup the kingdom on earth that God promised to the Jews. Jesus came preaching the the kindom was at hand and it was. Where ever Jesus is, that is the kingdom. BUT THE JEWS REJECTED HIM AND HIS KINGDOM. so God has turned to the Gentiles with the gospel of God's grace. But most can not see any difference in the "Gospel of the Kingdom at Hand" and the Gospel of grace. IMHO God has blinded men today just as the Jews were blinded so they could not see the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom has been put on hold until the time of the Gentles is fulfilled. The Gospel of grace was hidden in God and revealed to Paul. It was a new Gospel.

Foreseeing-Beforehand-would justify

Galatians 3:6-8
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." NKJV

Note the words “foreseeing“, “would justify“, “beforehand“. They clearly indicate that faith was not instituted at that time. It was to be a future event. But the religious do not see these words as written, they make excuses for them.

What you're accounting for is only that Christ's Salvation would also go to believing Gentiles. Not ALL Israel rejected Christ Jesus.

In Romans 11, Apostle Paul taught how Gentile believers would be included in God's Salvation originally ordained to Israel. NOWHERE did He remove that ORIGINAL PLAN away from Israelite believers. That's why there is no such thing as the Israelite Church vs. the Gentile Church in God's Word.

There is only ONE Church, and it is to both believing Israelite and Gentile alike, as ONE Body in Christ Jesus. That's the Truth of God that's not getting into your head because of how the doctrines of men from Dispensationalists created a fake separation between Israel and The Church a long time ago.

Even in Romans 9, Paul preaching to Gentiles mainly, taught how they had become spiritual Israel per God's Promised Salvation through His Son. That goes along with how Paul taught in Ephesians 2 that the Gentiles that were once strangers from the covenants of promise to Israel, have now been graffed into those promises to Israel, becoming part of the "commonwealth of Israel". So to Apostle Paul, the name Israel was still VERY MUCH a part of The Gospel Salvation Promise, and he even applied it to believing Gentiles!!!

 

[RichardBurger]

What you're accounting for is only that Christ's Salvation would also go to believing Gentiles. Not ALL Israel rejected Christ Jesus.

In Romans 11, Apostle Paul taught how Gentile believers would be included in God's Salvation originally ordained to Israel. NOWHERE did He remove that ORIGINAL PLAN away from Israelite believers. That's why there is no such thing as the Israelite Church vs. the Gentile Church in God's Word.

There is only ONE Church, and it is to both believing Israelite and Gentile alike, as ONE Body in Christ Jesus. That's the Truth of God that's not getting into your head because of how the doctrines of men from Dispensationalists created a fake separation between Israel and The Church a long time ago.

Even in Romans 9, Paul preaching to Gentiles mainly, taught how they had become spiritual Israel per God's Promised Salvation through His Son. That goes along with how Paul taught in Ephesians 2 that the Gentiles that were once strangers from the covenants of promise to Israel, have now been graffed into those promises to Israel, becoming part of the "commonwealth of Israel". So to Apostle Paul, the name Israel was still VERY MUCH a part of The Gospel Salvation Promise, and he even applied it to believing Gentiles!!!

My, my. What you can't get into your head is that under the law of Moses salvation by grace was unheard of.

You have complained that what I believe leaves out the Jews and now you are saying that we have replaced the Jews. Hummm, the difference??

 

[veteran]

My, my. What you can't get into your head is that under the law of Moses salvation by grace was unheard of.

You have complained that what I believe leaves out the Jews and now you are saying that we have replaced the Jews. Hummm, the difference??

And just what relation do your statements have with what I said above?

 

[FHII]

My, my. What you can't get into your head is that under the law of Moses salvation by grace was unheard of.

You have complained that what I believe leaves out the Jews and now you are saying that we have replaced the Jews. Hummm, the difference??

Richard,


I agree with what you say! Praise God for Grace!

 

[veteran]

My, my. What you can't get into your head is that under the law of Moses salvation by grace was unheard of.

You have complained that what I believe leaves out the Jews and now you are saying that we have replaced the Jews. Hummm, the difference??

You are the one trying to preach a separation between God's Israel and Christ's Church, not me.

God's Israel per His Salvation Plan by Jesus Christ involves ONLY those who inherit God's promises with faithful Abraham. It is the Spiritual Israel concept Apostle Paul taught in Romans 9.

Per Romans 11, unbelieving flesh Israel will be 'cut off' IF they remain in unbelief.

Believing Gentiles are now COUNTED as Spiritual seed of Israel ALONG with the BELIEVING seed of Israel. The Faith of both involve the Promise by Faith first given through Abraham. Israel per God's Salvation Plan is now a 'commonwealth' per Apostle Paul, with believing Gentiles now having become a part of it, and inherit with Abraham.

Thus:

Spiritual Israel = Christ's Church (of both believing flesh Israelites and Gentiles as one Body)

The name Israel represents the name of God's Salvation Plan through Christ Jesus.

 

[RichardBurger]

You are the one trying to preach a separation between God's Israel and Christ's Church, not me.

God's Israel per His Salvation Plan by Jesus Christ involves ONLY those who inherit God's promises with faithful Abraham. It is the Spiritual Israel concept Apostle Paul taught in Romans 9.

Per Romans 11, unbelieving flesh Israel will be 'cut off' IF they remain in unbelief.

Believing Gentiles are now COUNTED as Spiritual seed of Israel ALONG with the BELIEVING seed of Israel. The Faith of both involve the Promise by Faith first given through Abraham. Israel per God's Salvation Plan is now a 'commonwealth' per Apostle Paul, with believing Gentiles now having become a part of it, and inherit with Abraham.

Thus:

Spiritual Israel = Christ's Church (of both believing flesh Israelites and Gentiles as one Body)

The name Israel represents the name of God's Salvation Plan through Christ Jesus.

I preach it because it is true. Under grace we have not replaced Israel. God's dealing with Israel has been put on hold until the time of the Gentiles has ended. He will turn back to the Jews after those saved under grace are taken out of this world.

But you don't seem to understand that that the program for Isreal (The earthly kingdom with law) and this program of grace (without law) is of God's making and you can't change it because you are not God. You can only be saved by the program that God says is in effect. In this age it is God's grace, not the law of Moses.

 

[veteran]

I preach it because it is true. Under grace we have not replaced Israel. God's dealing with Israel has been put on hold until the time of the Gentiles has ended. He will turn back to the Jews after those saved under grace are taken out of this world.

You must have a difficult time reading this then...

Eph 2:10-13
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(KJV)

But you don't seem to understand that that the program for Isreal (The earthly kingdom with law) and this program of grace (without law) is of God's making and you can't change it because you are not God. You can only be saved by the program that God says is in effect. In this age it is God's grace, not the law of Moses.

The name 'Israel' is NOT just about the kingdom and law like you say.

I can tell you have little clue of what all God's Word teaches, because you have cut off the majority of His Word, going the way instead to think ONLY Gentiles are saved by our Lord Jesus! (See, I can slander too, but all it does is show immaturity).

And you GREATLY err in saying that I am not of God.

You keep arguing the law, when you don't even understand what it's for.

I've dealt with ignorant people like you all my life. You take what YOU WANT from God's Word and dump the rest so you can PLAY RELIGION.

You are a hypocrite. May The Lord Jesus Christ rebuke you and your false doctrines.

 

[RichardBurger]

You must have a difficult time reading this then...

Eph 2:10-13
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(KJV)





The name 'Israel' is NOT just about the kingdom and law like you say.

I can tell you have little clue of what all God's Word teaches, because you have cut off the majority of His Word, going the way instead to think ONLY Gentiles are saved by our Lord Jesus! (See, I can slander too, but all it does is show immaturity).

And you GREATLY err in saying that I am not of God.

You keep arguing the law, when you don't even understand what it's for.

I've dealt with ignorant people like you all my life. You take what YOU WANT from God's Word and dump the rest so you can PLAY RELIGION.

You are a hypocrite. May The Lord Jesus Christ rebuke you and your false doctrines.

Nothing in Eph 2:10-13 says were have replaced Israel.

It says "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. (period)