Limited atonement is a false gospel
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To discount the scriptures, are you saying that when one receives from another means of God's word of truth that is separate from the scriptures that is wrong? If so, wrong in whose eyes?
Dash RipRock
Active Member
Don' you know limited atonement is heresy?
Universalism is extreme error in the ditch on one side, and limited atonement is extreme error in the ditch on the other side
Both are abomination to the Lord!
Proverbs 11:1 - A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
Would you say that do not kill and kill them all, men, women, children, animals are 2 sides of the ditch?
God told His people to do both. But in 2 different situations and for different purposes.
I don't identify as a Universalist or a Calvinist. Yet I firmly believe that God has chosen to redeem certain people but not others. I also believe that He will redeem ALL, including Satan and his angels. But in 2 different situations and for different purposes.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
OK so your claim is that God CAN be mocked and what man sows is NOT what man reaps and if man sows to the flesh he does NOT reap corruption and if man sows to the Spirit he does NOT reap life everlasting.
That would be the opposite of what the Lord said in Galatians 6:7,8
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:1-4 - I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Acts 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent
Only demons claim what God said in His Word is not true so some people need to quit listening to demons and start listening to what God said in His Word.
That's what satan continues to tell all that listen to him who ignore the Lord.
Jesus's followers don't listen to strangers be they human or angels.
We run from them.
Jesus's followers only listen to Him and follow the leading of His Spirit.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
Those being led by the Holy Spirit do so based on what God says in His Word
In John 16:13 Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth, and Jesus said in John 17:17 that God's Word is Truth
Those that believe they don't need God's Word or believe there's no need to judge what they are getting in the Spirit to see if it agrees with God's Word are sadly deceived by the devil.
'His word' you mean what many call the written word of God? Just for clarification.
“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.
17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
God communicated His word to Jesus directly. Jesus communicated God's word to His disciple directly.
God sent His Spirit to communicate His word directly. No other go between required.
As Paul said, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
I encourage and challenge you to respond to my precious post refering to God's written word through Moses, do not kill. And His spoken word directly to Joshua, kill everyone.
Sister-n-Christ
Active Member
There is a lot of discussion about how scripture must support itself,align,with the succinct message of the Gospel of Jesus.
After all these many pages it would be strange to repeat what some have said,and that has been rebuffed.
The English translation leaves lots to be overlooked for focus on what English speakers understand as the meaning of a given word or phrase.
That bring said, both Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught what we label limited atonement. A term that is encompassed in meaning by the phrase, God's Elect.
We cannot understand the teachings of Jesus unless the Holy Spirit leads us to understand.
As fallen natural minded people from our beginning,we cannot understand those things of God unless Holy Spirit Intervenes.
Jesus taught this as God made flesh. And Apostle Paul said the same.
If it were true we were made willing and free to choose,neither Jesus nor Paul would have taught otherwise. But,they did.
After all these many pages it would be strange to repeat what some have said,and that has been rebuffed.
The English translation leaves lots to be overlooked for focus on what English speakers understand as the meaning of a given word or phrase.
That bring said, both Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught what we label limited atonement. A term that is encompassed in meaning by the phrase, God's Elect.
We cannot understand the teachings of Jesus unless the Holy Spirit leads us to understand.
As fallen natural minded people from our beginning,we cannot understand those things of God unless Holy Spirit Intervenes.
Jesus taught this as God made flesh. And Apostle Paul said the same.
If it were true we were made willing and free to choose,neither Jesus nor Paul would have taught otherwise. But,they did.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
I encourage and challenge you to understand that Jesus came and did away with the old covenant and established the New Covenant and we are now living under the Law of Christ not the law of Moses.
One has gotta pay attention to details man, otherwise they get confused and deceived like you.
1 Cor:2:9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
So we can kill now as God commanded Joshua and His people?
But we shouldn't, do not kill, because that was the law given through Moses.
If you were Joshua, what would you have done? Kill or not kill. Whichever one you did you would've been listening and obeying God.
Did Jesus's Father write these words, do not kill?
Did Jesus's Father speak the words, kill all! And to the same people.
Both were God's word. I guess the difference was who God spoke to directly and who received the command.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
Your claim is Joshua was a sinner who rebelled against God because He did what God told Him to do?
Numerous guys in the OT were directed by the Lord to kill servants of satan, and the second time Jesus sent the disciples out He specifically told them to take a sword which is a person weapon used to kill people with.
Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse,
let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that
hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Either Jesus was completely ignorant of what swords are used for, or He intended these guys to be armed for self defense.
Romans 13:3 - For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
In Romans 13:3,4 we see God is authorizing the use of deadly force to execute wrath upon those that do evil.
All things considered, self defense is not a sin in extreme circumstances where a demon possessed person is about to murder us or someone close to us such as family or bystanders.
If you are dead set against using self defense it's no problem for me. Let the devil murder you in front of your family, or let the devil murder your family in front of you. It's not a problem for me either way
Yes He did tell Joshua to kill them all that were in the promised land, who were actually nephilim who had not right to be on the earth much less on God's property.
You should remember, it was God Himself Who flooded the world and killed everyone who was not on Noah's ark
Not at all. Joshua obeyed God. But if Caleb refused to obey God's spoken command through Joshua then Caleb would have disobeyed God. But Caleb was only obeying God's written command. It is written.... do not kill.
Written word of God vs spoken word of God.
They were directed by God to not only kill servants of Satan but God's people. Achan and all his family, adults and children. To stone His people to death.
God could've easily saved all those fathers, sons, brothers, uncles, nephews from being kill by the people of Ai.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Yeah, obviously some think God is the problem and God is confused and contradicts Himself making Himself out to be a liar
Not a liar but adaptable to a given situation.
When someone is being trained as a paramedic they are told early in their training to obey the road rules. One important rule, 'do not speed'. If they disobey they will lose their job.
Later in their training they are told to 'speed'. If they disobey they will lose their job.
Are the authorities and Trainers confused and contradicting themselves and making themself out to be liars?
No at all.
It depends on the situation as to when to apply what rule or command.
Thus the need for the accompanying Spirit of God to be the 0ne to decide on what to apply when.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Those that don't know the Lord claim God changes... they got that from satan and it's a lie.
Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not
God has never altered His plan?
Has He never said one thing then said something different later.
God Himself doesn't change, but He does alter what He wants us to do.
Did God command His people, Do not kill.
Then command the same people, go kill everyone, men, women and children?
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Yes, prostitutes think that prostitution can make money quickly. They think it's good for them... This is one of the fruits on the tree of good and bad. The military-industrial complex believes that waging war can make money and they think it is good for them. Politicians think that lying can win votes, which is good for them.
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