Living in the USA

[Tullius]

Hi,

I don't know if this is the right section for this post so sorry in advance if its not.

I'm getting married in february next year, and I'm working and saving as much money as possible for a future possible emmigration to the USA. The primary reason for this is to live in a country where I can give my possible future children religious freedom and have a higher standard of living than I can in Norway. The living standard in Norway is relative high, but if you compare the real purchashing power of a person in the USA and in Norway then the United States is much higher because consumer prices on all articles and services are so much lower even though in terms of dollars a Norwegian earns more. In reality a Norwegian earning more than an American can buy less.

In Norway I remember at my middle school there was only one christian child and he was perfectly normal, good grades and athletic, but still he was teased and harassed every day just because he said "I believe in God". I only became a christian two years ago and never thought about how evil the treatment was and I now realize I never want my children to experience this or to have to hide their faith. This may just be a isolated incidence but we are shaped by our experiences and my experience tells me that Norway is a very poor country to live as a practicing christian protestant couple.

My question is to the Americans in this forum, about tips as to looking for State/City/neighbourhood/Church community and so on. Please share your own experience as Americans regarding "marriage", "raising children", "work", "worship" and "community" and your views/opinions about it. It is at least 4 years until I will have the capital and experience I want until I can emmigrate.

 

[aspen]

Hi,

I don't know if this is the right section for this post so sorry in advance if its not.

I'm getting married in february next year, and I'm working and saving as much money as possible for a future possible emmigration to the USA. The primary reason for this is to live in a country where I can give my possible future children religious freedom and have a higher standard of living than I can in Norway. The living standard in Norway is relative high, but if you compare the real purchashing power of a person in the USA and in Norway then the United States is much higher because consumer prices on all articles and services are so much lower even though in terms of dollars a Norwegian earns more. In reality a Norwegian earning more than an American can buy less.

In Norway I remember at my middle school there was only one christian child and he was perfectly normal, good grades and athletic, but still he was teased and harassed every day just because he said "I believe in God". I only became a christian two years ago and never thought about how evil the treatment was and I now realize I never want my children to experience this or to have to hide their faith. This may just be a isolated incidence but we are shaped by our experiences and my experience tells me that Norway is a very poor country to live as a practicing christian protestant couple.

My question is to the Americans in this forum, about tips as to looking for State/City/neighbourhood/Church community and so on. Please share your own experience as Americans regarding "marriage", "raising children", "work", "worship" and "community" and your views/opinions about it. It is at least 4 years until I will have the capital and experience I want until I can emmigrate.

Boy, those are tough questions for people who have always lived in the US. The first thing I would look at is the quality of the schools in the city you are considering moving to. There are vast differences between the quality of school districts - even in the same city. Also, property taxes - Oregon has really high property taxes and high unemployment. As far as churches are concerned - the US has an abundance of churches - tons and tons of churches - even in the Northwest, which is the least churched area in the US. Chances are, you will find the right church for you and your family no matter where you decide to live.

 

[SaturdayPastor]

That is awesome...very powerful stuff! I will unload my opinion stream of consciousness so let me know if I miss something.

You can research most US communities online...down to the street and building level!!! If I were in your place, I would approach this from two different directions and see where they collide. First, research where your profession will provide the largest pool of opportunities, then see what the Church looks like in that area. Second, search for a church home that speaks to you, then look at the area to see what the job market looks like.

"marriage"
In the US right now, only the Church is pro-marriage. The rest of the culture discourages it... The funny thing is, teaming up in marriage is the best way to face this culture and not get overwhelmed.

"raising children"
I home school, but I don't believe everyone needs to do this... My main reason for this approach is that a person without defect can get a BS/BA degree by 18 or 19 in the US. I was blessed with a healthy child and I see it as an obligation to provide the best education possible. There are many great opportunities for raising kids in the US: sports programs are everywhere going on 12 months of the year; parks/recreation/public/free places to hike/climb/play/swim are common throughout the US; we have free library systems throughout the country where you can get most any published work for free to read/enjoy/study; best medical care in the world (I didn't say cheapest or free - I said BEST)...need more? Just ask. (-:

"work"
Choose your field wisely and you will have no problem finding work. However, it has been my experience that Christianity as a topic for discussion is only really welcome at work when you are in ministry (but I never let that stop me). I have witnessed to many people at secular jobs and held many Bible studies...no big deal.

"worship"
If folks aren't singing full voice, I feel cheated. You can find any worship style you like over here. But, personally, I spent my youth at concerts and clubs...I feel like if I could get loud then for no real reason, then loving God is an awesome excuse to sing loud and raise my hands to Him. YMMV. (...dare I say Charismatic without the snake charming and flopping around on the floor...)

"community"
Good luck. I believe this is true no matter where you go and no matter where you live: People will be people. Make a "community" in your church first and then YOU reach out to the community around you.

Hope this helps!

The Saturday Pastor
http://www.youtube.com/user/SaturdayPastor

 

[Tullius]

Thank you both for terrific replies


So property taxes varies a lot from place to place in the USA? In Norway I pay 35% income tax and 25% sale tax, 90% tax on gasoline, annual car licence and tv licence tax that cost $650 dollars each and in addition there is also high property tax here, but I rent for the time being. All taxes are national in Norway, they are the same in every commune. Does all taxes in the US vary a lot or is it just primarily property taxes?

Its good to know that community and churches are no problem in the USA. The christian worship concerts and so on sounds really awesone, are they a regular occurrence? Also to have the opportunity to give children many many different forms of sports to play and be engaged in is very good. For example I like soccer, but I find the tactics involved in american football more entertaining. Raising children in the USA sounds like best place to do with all the freedom in services and range of activities

Yeah thanks for the tip about public schools. I'm planning on using private schools when the time comes, since I watched a Stossel documentary and read about the public schools in the US in "Free to Choose" and the state they are in due to the regulation of department of education and many teacher unions it sounds terrible. That being said the public schools in Norway perform worse than those of eastern europe.

I currently only have a BA in political science, but getting working experience and thinking of finishing masters before emmigration if I can free some capital for it. Hopefully the recession will be over soon and the job market will be better for all professions once the deficit is cut, regulation made simpler and taxes are cut making the US better for investement.

There are three things which I hope you guys can answer for me, which are the biggest reasons why many Europeans dont want to emmigrate to the US. So I'm wondering what your experience are with these aspects and if it is in reality just the European media sensetationalism and anti american bias being played out.

(1) Guns and Crime

In the US you are likely to get killed by non criminals for stepping on someones lawn or similar trifles in everyday life. And many hundres (or thousands) die of this every year in the US. Also the crime rate in the USA is so huge it is like a warzone to live in a medium or bigger sized american city.

(2) Lawsuit

In the US you are likely to be sued for trifles and accidents. In this I'm thinking about lawsuit abuse in general. Some stories of people being afraid to allow their kids friends to come into their home in fear of their parents suing them if the kids accidently hurts themselves and similar trifles.

(3) Healthcare

Thank you "Saturdaypastor" for including this in your answer. My question is how expensive is the medical cost, are they ruining to a family's economy? If you have cancer, will you be forced to pay unsustainable amount of money? Or if you are hurt and dont have the capital needed at that moment be "thrown" out of the hospital to die?

Also I'm wondering what you guys feel that you are most happy for living in the US? And if there are some things you think are better in Europe?

 

[Disciple]

the same evil that is there, is here also.. id rather be somewhere that was open about their hate because here in america people hate you and abuse you secretly about your faith with hidden contempt and even acting themselves as chritians.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Thank you both for terrific replies


So property taxes varies a lot from place to place in the USA? In Norway I pay 35% income tax and 25% sale tax, 90% tax on gasoline, annual car licence and tv licence tax that cost $650 dollars each and in addition there is also high property tax here, but I rent for the time being. All taxes are national in Norway, they are the same in every commune. Does all taxes in the US vary a lot or is it just primarily property taxes?

Most income tax is around 15% to 25% depending on how much you make and state vs fedral tax. Sales tax on usual items is from 6% to 12% depending on which part of the country and from state to state. Gas tax, I don't know exactly, but gas is nowhere near as expensive in the states as it is in Norway. Property tax isn't very high and is usually configured into your mortgage. I think it's from $500 to $1500 per year for a $100,000 house.

Its good to know that community and churches are no problem in the USA. The christian worship concerts and so on sounds really awesone, are they a regular occurrence? Also to have the opportunity to give children many many different forms of sports to play and be engaged in is very good. For example I like soccer, but I find the tactics involved in american football more entertaining. Raising children in the USA sounds like best place to do with all the freedom in services and range of activities

If you live in the south USA there's no shortage of churches or christian community centers. Infact, I have one less than a mile from my house that has, soccer, football, weight lifting, basketball, karate, concerts, and all kinds of stuff all the time.

Yeah thanks for the tip about public schools. I'm planning on using private schools when the time comes, since I watched a Stossel documentary and read about the public schools in the US in "Free to Choose" and the state they are in due to the regulation of department of education and many teacher unions it sounds terrible. That being said the public schools in Norway perform worse than those of eastern europe.

Public schools are a low form of education, IMHO, full of teachers that think they're too smart for their own good.


I

currently only have a BA in political science, but getting working experience and thinking of finishing masters before emmigration if I can free some capital for it. Hopefully the recession will be over soon and the job market will be better for all professions once the deficit is cut, regulation made simpler and taxes are cut making the US better for investement.

Be prepared for people's ignorance. Believe it or not there's many people in the US that will say, "Yeah, but your degree is from another country, so it's not that good" On the other hand, having a degree will get you much farther here in the states because most people don't have one.

There are three things which I hope you guys can answer for me, which are the biggest reasons why many Europeans dont want to emmigrate to the US. So I'm wondering what your experience are with these aspects and if it is in reality just the European media sensetationalism and anti american bias being played out.

(1) Guns and Crime

In the US you are likely to get killed by non criminals for stepping on someones lawn or similar trifles in everyday life. And many hundres (or thousands) die of this every year in the US. Also the crime rate in the USA is so huge it is like a warzone to live in a medium or bigger sized american city.

This one made me LOL. There are certain parts of large cities that have alot of crime. Most of it is isolated. You also have to think of the number of killings related to gangs and members of rival gangs. One thing to remember is crime rate is purely subjective. Where I live was reported to have the highest crime rate in the US, but, the crimes reported were minial, such as, "They knocked over my mailbox" vs, "My family was murdered". Theft is more prominant than violent crimes against non gang members of society. Stepping on grass might get you yelled at by the old man down the street, but, not shot.

(2) Lawsuit

In the US you are likely to be sued for trifles and accidents. In this I'm thinking about lawsuit abuse in general. Some stories of people being afraid to allow their kids friends to come into their home in fear of their parents suing them if the kids accidently hurts themselves and similar trifles.

There's lots of lawsuits. Some people are sue happy. Make sure you cover yourself and have a witness in events. It's possible to get sued if a neighbors child get's bit by your dog. Even if the child climbed your fence and was kicking the dog in the face. It's also possible to get sued if you shoot someone breaking into your house.

(3) Healthcare

Thank you "Saturdaypastor" for including this in your answer. My question is how expensive is the medical cost, are they ruining to a family's economy? If you have cancer, will you be forced to pay unsustainable amount of money? Or if you are hurt and dont have the capital needed at that moment be "thrown" out of the hospital to die?

I pay $300 a month for medical, dental, and vision. Some places are cheaper, some more expensive. Either way you look at it, if something major happens to your health expect to pay quite a bit. Your insurance company will fight you over payments and it's a hassle. However, my wife needed a surgery that would've cost us $15,000 and it was all paid for by the insurance co.

Also I'm wondering what you guys feel that you are most happy for living in the US? And if there are some things you think are better in Europe?

I've never lived in Europe or even traveled there. From what little I know, I don't like the bleeding heart liberal mindset that most of Europe seems to have. I like having a private option for healthcare. I like having a sort of freedom to do and say most of what I want within reason. I like having the illusion that my vote counts. I love the US simply because I've never lived anywhere else.

Things about Europe that I do like is the, "Work to Live" attitude. In the US we seem to have a "Live to Work" attitude. As in working is a part of our culture. Often times when you first meet someone the first question asked is, "So, What do you do?". Europe has a long and rich history with a buch of different cultures that are easily experienced just by getting on a train for a couple hours. I like the way Europeans seem to be "in the know" with what's going on in the world, and I do like the progressive thinking of the majority that I've come in contact with.

 

[aspen]

Whiteknuckle provided an accurate picture of living in the USA. Great post.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Never thought I would hear about a Norwegian actually wanting to leave and come to North America with it's marxist conditions. Well maybe old Norway aint what she used to be with the politicians killing thier own country and also recentley being killed.

 

[FHII]

I agree with Whiteknuckle too. Except, umm.... Whiteknuckle.... I work for the public schools! I think your opinion is a bit hasty. We could do a better job, but in the end, students and their parents could too. I too have a lot of complaints about the school system, but I don't agree with your assessment of teachers.

I've been to Europe (Italy) and the thing I learned to appreciate in the U.S. is that the beer is cold and the coffee is hot! I couldn't get either in Italy! However, the food was fabulous! But more seriously, things are more affordable in the U.S and opportunities are more plentyful.

Tullius, you seem like a sports fan and I have a funny story about my trip to Italy. It was in the year 2000 or 2001. I had the night off (it was a business trip) and went down to the hotel bar to watch the game and have dinner. I was watching soccer. Norway was playing Italy, and sorry... Norway lost 2-1. Towards the end of the game a bunch of locals were pointing at me and laughing.... As it turned out, they knew I wasn't Italian... They thought I was Norweigan and were having fun with me as such! I explained I was an American and just loved all sports in general.

Your story is inspiring.... I pray you make it here sooner than later. You said you majored in Political science. Is that the field you are looking to get into? Do you know where abouts in the U.S. you'd like to move to? I would suggest the midwest. It's fine to live near a city, but of course you probably won't want to live in a city... Try finding a place in the suberbs. Traffic is less, crime isn't as high and things generally are more affordable. Especially in the midwest.

Other than that.... Whiteknuckle was pretty accurate.

 

[aspen]

I agree with Whiteknuckle too. Except, umm.... Whiteknuckle.... I work for the public schools! I think your opinion is a bit hasty. We could do a better job, but in the end, students and their parents could too. I too have a lot of complaints about the school system, but I don't agree with your assessment of teachers.

I've been to Europe (Italy) and the thing I learned to appreciate in the U.S. is that the beer is cold and the coffee is hot! I couldn't get either in Italy! However, the food was fabulous! But more seriously, things are more affordable in the U.S and opportunities are more plentyful.

Tullius, you seem like a sports fan and I have a funny story about my trip to Italy. It was in the year 2000 or 2001. I had the night off (it was a business trip) and went down to the hotel bar to watch the game and have dinner. I was watching soccer. Norway was playing Italy, and sorry... Norway lost 2-1. Towards the end of the game a bunch of locals were pointing at me and laughing.... As it turned out, they knew I wasn't Italian... They thought I was Norweigan and were having fun with me as such! I explained I was an American and just loved all sports in general.

Your story is inspiring.... I pray you make it here sooner than later. You said you majored in Political science. Is that the field you are looking to get into? Do you know where abouts in the U.S. you'd like to move to? I would suggest the midwest. It's fine to live near a city, but of course you probably won't want to live in a city... Try finding a place in the suberbs. Traffic is less, crime isn't as high and things generally are more affordable. Especially in the midwest.

Other than that.... Whiteknuckle was pretty accurate.

yeah...good point about teachers and schools

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I agree with Whiteknuckle too. Except, umm.... Whiteknuckle.... I work for the public schools! I think your opinion is a bit hasty. We could do a better job, but in the end, students and their parents could too. I too have a lot of complaints about the school system, but I don't agree with your assessment of teachers.

Fair enough. I should've worded it differently.

My experience with school was horrid, as well as dealing with the teachers and administrators at my kid's school.

Such as, I was in remedial math and seniors chemistry at the same time. Right after I spent an hour of class explaining to seniors how to do the math in chemistry, I headed straight to my remedial math class to do 4th grade math. On top of that, I was held back in the 9th grade twice! The reason was, "You didn't take Gym as an elective, you have to have a Gym credit.".

I could go on and on.

It wasn't fair of me to make a blanket statement. I appologize sincerely.

 

[Duckybill]

Public schools in the USA are used to control parents. If parents don't dance to the music the 'child protective services' will be called in to threaten the parents and sometimes remove children from good homes. The CPS bullies parents. Don't be fooled. If you cross the wrong people you will be visited. Been there, done that. It's kept quite secretive. The CPS pretend to be friends of children but in reality they are as often as not predators. I have found that most CPS case workers know NOTHING about raising children.

 

[aspen]

I work in social service and I wouldn't wish CPS on anyone.

 

[Duckybill]

I work in social service and I wouldn't wish CPS on anyone.

I met a REALLY nice, caring Christian case worker. She ended up quitting because they wanted her to do BAD things. The rest I met were EVIL liars.

 

[aspen]

I met a REALLY nice, caring Christian case worker. She ended up quitting because they wanted her to do BAD things. The rest I met were EVIL liars.

I hear you.....I've spent months in meetings and trials defending clients falsely accused. Several of the caseworkers were bitter, nasty and vengeful. Taking out their own history of abuse on other people. They have too much power.

 

[Duckybill]

I hear you.....I've spent months in meetings and trials defending clients falsely accused. Several of the caseworkers were bitter, nasty and vengeful. Taking out their own history of abuse on other people. They have too much power.

Giving them absolute immunity only adds fuel to the fire. Some of them are merciless. The average parent is at their mercy. It only takes an anonymous phone call to set them in action against an unsuspecting and helpless parent who truly loves his/her kids.

 

[veteran]

So property taxes varies a lot from place to place in the USA? In Norway I pay 35% income tax and 25% sale tax, 90% tax on gasoline, annual car licence and tv licence tax that cost $650 dollars each and in addition there is also high property tax here, but I rent for the time being. All taxes are national in Norway, they are the same in every commune. Does all taxes in the US vary a lot or is it just primarily property taxes?

Property and taxes on same are highest in strongly industrialized areas, like the major cities. Lot of folks are moving out of places like southern California and northern industrialized cities because everything's so expensive. Picture a place in the U.S. that everyone wants to be because of surf and sun, and it'll be a higher cost to live there. I've been all over the world to many countries, and I've found all big cities pretty much the same. Average middle class taxes are around 28-33% of taxable income (minus deferment of retirement plans).

Its good to know that community and churches are no problem in the USA. The christian worship concerts and so on sounds really awesone, are they a regular occurrence? Also to have the opportunity to give children many many different forms of sports to play and be engaged in is very good. For example I like soccer, but I find the tactics involved in american football more entertaining. Raising children in the USA sounds like best place to do with all the freedom in services and range of activities

That actually is starting to depend on where you live in the U.S. In some cities, like Washington, D.C., lawmakers are allowing Muslims to have neighborhoods with their Sharia law enacted. The Muslim invasion is happening in the U.S. just like in Europe. But only now are American lawmakers starting to cow-tow to them in going against our U.S. Constitution. Allowing any community in the U.S. to override U.S. Constitutional law with Islamic Sharia law instead, is un-Constitutional. Not many years ago, the Feds surrounded the Freeman's ranch out west because it had declared itself a separate state entity within the U.S., and was even printing it's own currency. Don't see that happening with Sharia neighborhoods yet, but there have been Christians beaten just for mistakedly walking into those neighborhoods.

I've from the South (southeastern U.S.), and Muslims are busy building mosques there too. The South is slanderously labeled the "Bible Belt" because of so many southern people are from strong Christian traditions. Where I work there's probably only about 2% that aren't Christians. We say grace in public and it doesn't bother us to do it. We evoke Christ Jesus' Name in public and it doesn't bother us to do it. Those it does bother in the South still make up a minority.

Yeah thanks for the tip about public schools. I'm planning on using private schools when the time comes, since I watched a Stossel documentary and read about the public schools in the US in "Free to Choose" and the state they are in due to the regulation of department of education and many teacher unions it sounds terrible. That being said the public schools in Norway perform worse than those of eastern europe.

Private school costs come out of your own pocket. There's no recompense from the state or Federal government. Many private Church schools exist, some good, some not so good. Private and home schooling still must follow state and Federal quotas for curriculum and testing.

I currently only have a BA in political science, but getting working experience and thinking of finishing masters before emmigration if I can free some capital for it. Hopefully the recession will be over soon and the job market will be better for all professions once the deficit is cut, regulation made simpler and taxes are cut making the US better for investement.

Many follow up a political science degree with an MBA, or some sort of business degree. The recession of today being over will depend on the newly elected congressmen and senators. They just allowed another raise on the national debt limit, so financial status and the job market doesn't look real good in the U.S. today. As of now, it's business as usual with the American political scene. One thing we don't need more of here, is Socialism. That's one of the problems that has gotten the U.S. into the financial gutter it's now in. We need more going back to the U.S. Constitution and giving the people more freedom to open opportunities to make their own way, the way it used to be in America. But the Socialism in Europe is trying to make its way here too.

There are three things which I hope you guys can answer for me, which are the biggest reasons why many Europeans dont want to emmigrate to the US. So I'm wondering what your experience are with these aspects and if it is in reality just the European media sensetationalism and anti american bias being played out.

(1) Guns and Crime

In the US you are likely to get killed by non criminals for stepping on someones lawn or similar trifles in everyday life. And many hundres (or thousands) die of this every year in the US. Also the crime rate in the USA is so huge it is like a warzone to live in a medium or bigger sized american city.

Big cities are always going to have the largest crime rates. Fact of life. Undesirable foreign elements are migrating into the U.S. under illegal immigration (I'm talking about hardened criminals like from the drug cartels like M13). Lot of shootings around the southern border states. The good news is, the concealed hand-gun carry permit is allowed in just about all 50 U.S. states, which is a good thing. Criminals will always acquire guns outside of gun control and registration. To fight that law-abiding citizens have the right to get a hangun permit to carry a weapon in order to defend themselves. The 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution declares that the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. It's a simple matter of taking a licensed course showing how to use it and to abide by the laws governing hand-carry to get a permit. Strongest hunting and outdoor sportsman areas in the U.S. are in the rural west and the south. Most people I know in the South own at least one handgun and or shotgun and most of them grew up learning how to shoot.

(2) Lawsuit

In the US you are likely to be sued for trifles and accidents. In this I'm thinking about lawsuit abuse in general. Some stories of people being afraid to allow their kids friends to come into their home in fear of their parents suing them if the kids accidently hurts themselves and similar trifles.

The worst areas for that are going to be in the major cities. As more liberal judges get away from the U.S. Constitution, more liberal and stupid rulings come forth. Sign of the times.

(3) Healthcare

Thank you "Saturdaypastor" for including this in your answer. My question is how expensive is the medical cost, are they ruining to a family's economy? If you have cancer, will you be forced to pay unsustainable amount of money? Or if you are hurt and dont have the capital needed at that moment be "thrown" out of the hospital to die?

Also I'm wondering what you guys feel that you are most happy for living in the US? And if there are some things you think are better in Europe?

Health care is good, but very expensive, likewise with insurance premiums. Insurance companies appear to cover less and less each year, with their premiums continually going up because of the cost of healthcare. Socialists want to start universal healthcare here, and so far lot of politicians in Washington, D.C. apparently want it too. If it happens, then the U.S. can definitely look to be bankrupt in a only a few years (which apparently some of those crooked politicians want for some reason).