Love Your Enemies

[Strat]

I don't support sin and neither I nor the Lord Jesus receives condemnation from you.

Do you think you would have felt comfortable in the company of New Testament Believers and maybe even Jesus or would you be scolding them?

Jesus doesn't let us go off in the flesh to right all the world's wrongs.

You cannot address the fact that Jesus (not me) taught non-resistance. You are trying to make it about me so you won't have to face Jesus' words and deal with them.

And you are trying to dodge the logical conclusion of your position,that life on this planet would be a nightmare of misery under the total depravity of man,don't try to play both sides...be all for one or all for the other and accept the results of the ones you choose...i see you have met the other fence straddler here...he to tries to be on both sides of everything and escape the consequences of either..it won't work for you or him....your position is that christians should not oppose evil...ok, let evil reign then and let all of its associated ills,pain and suffering also reign and let it be known that you see this as the will of God...actually you will get your wish because a despotic empire is coming that no one will be able to oppose....you should enjoy it should you live to see it because evil like the world has never known will reign supreme.....unopposed of course......as you think it should be.

I guess I don't know who Strat is, so I will stick with the Word of God. Jesus was not a Pacifist. Pacifism in many respects practices rebellion against the Scriptures. Much like those that want to bear arms and wipe out God's enemies.

Thanks for your contribution aspen.

Axehead

LOL it's no suprise the two of you have found common ground,where do you live and what price have you paid for your pacifism ?

 

[Axehead]

...your position is that christians should not oppose evil...ok,

No, Strat, that is the Lord's position not mine.

Mat 5:39 But I (Jesus) say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

If it wasn't for Jesus Christ in my life I would give into fear and use my hunting rifles to defend myself. I would execute vengeance without a second thought.

let evil reign then and let all of its associated ills, pain and suffering also reign and let it be known that you see this as the will of God...actually you will get your wish because a despotic empire is coming that no one will be able to oppose....you should enjoy it should you live to see it because evil like the world has never known will reign supreme.....unopposed of course......as you think it should be.

Strat, do you believe it is the will of God that you walk as Christ walked?

You’re not a dominionist, are you? Do you think we are to purge this world of evil so that we can take dominion on earth and present it to the Lord when He comes back? If you don’t find your safety and security in the Lord, you could endanger your very eternal life if you think you are supposed to overcome evil with evil.

Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Do you know that if the disciples defended Stephen and attacked the Pharisees who stoned him, then Saul may never have been saved. Saul something "other worldly" when he witnessed Stephen's death. It would be nothing but a religious war. Hmmm, where have I heard about religious wars before?

Would you have prevented Jesus from going to the cross? Of course, knowing what you know today, you would not do that. However, if you were living back then and was one of Christ’s disciples, with your present attitude, I could see you trying to stop Jesus from going to the cross.

Don't you know that we are all bought with a price and are not our own. The Lord depends on us to walk as he walked so that redemptive grace may be released from our lives upon "evil" people when we are being persecuted so that they may "see" something eternal (Jesus Christ) and be saved.

When you take up arms to overcome evil with evil you depart from way of the Cross and are fighting against the Lord and could be fighting against other “Christians” if they hold your same belief.

I think you need to calm down a bit Strat and get back to the words of Jesus and Paul and the other Apostles. Stop the ad hominems and get involved into some serious study of the Word.

LOL it's no suprise the two of you have found common ground,where do you live and what price have you paid for your pacifism?

Strat, I don't even know Aspen but I won't be hateful to him as you are being. I won't be hateful towards you, either, but I will ask you to examine yourself to see if Christ is indwelling you, because I'm not seeing Christ in your words. You're not the resident forum Bully, I hope.

Also, Strat, do you believe Jesus teaches Pacifism? Please show me scripture and verse.

Axehead

 

[aspen]

We are called to love our enemies - not to love their sin. There is nothing noble or right about approving of sin - yes sinners are allowed to exist and practice their sinful ways. So, what are we called to do as lovers of Christ and followers of His way? I believe we are called to love the sinner and offer him a different choice - the choice of freedom, as opposed to the way he is following - sin and death. Yet, if he chooses the way of death - who are we to get in his way?

 

[Strat]

No, Strat, that is the Lord's position not mine.

Mat 5:39 But I (Jesus) say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

If it wasn't for Jesus Christ in my life I would give into fear and use my hunting rifles to defend myself. I would execute vengeance without a second thought.



Strat, do you believe it is the will of God that you walk as Christ walked?

You’re not a dominionist, are you? Do you think we are to purge this world of evil so that we can take dominion on earth and present it to the Lord when He comes back? If you don’t find your safety and security in the Lord, you could endanger your very eternal life if you think you are supposed to overcome evil with evil.

Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Do you know that if the disciples defended Stephen and attacked the Pharisees who stoned him, then Saul may never have been saved. Saul something "other worldly" when he witnessed Stephen's death. It would be nothing but a religious war. Hmmm, where have I heard about religious wars before?

Would you have prevented Jesus from going to the cross? Of course, knowing what you know today, you would not do that. However, if you were living back then and was one of Christ’s disciples, with your present attitude, I could see you trying to stop Jesus from going to the cross.

Don't you know that we are all bought with a price and are not our own. The Lord depends on us to walk as he walked so that redemptive grace may be released from our lives upon "evil" people when we are being persecuted so that they may "see" something eternal (Jesus Christ) and be saved.

When you take up arms to overcome evil with evil you depart from way of the Cross and are fighting against the Lord and could be fighting against other “Christians” if they hold your same belief.

I think you need to calm down a bit Strat and get back to the words of Jesus and Paul and the other Apostles. Stop the ad hominems and get involved into some serious study of the Word.



Strat, I don't even know Aspen but I won't be hateful to him as you are being. I won't be hateful towards you, either, but I will ask you to examine yourself to see if Christ is indwelling you, because I'm not seeing Christ in your words. You're not the resident forum Bully, I hope.

Also, Strat, do you believe Jesus teaches Pacifism? Please show me scripture and verse.

Axehead

I am not a "bully" i speak direct minus all the fluff and nonsense that among christians who have died to self should be completely uneccesary,those driven by self will always be emotional manipulators,their first response to anything is how it makes them feel personally...then true to form and with no small amount of hypocrisy they will execute judgement on anyone who has dared to offend their delicate sense of self...as you have done,if you would like to continue to communicate minus the obsession of self and emotion let me know.

I have only ask you to accept the logical conclusion of your position....which is a world that is 100 times more the nightmare of evil than it already is and that this is God's will for the world and mankind...evil takes many forms,if we are not to oppse evil then we must not oppose it in any form it takes...we should not seek to heal the sick or rescue anyone in an emergency situation...we must not take any job that would involve us in the restraint of evil in any way...a christian should not be a lawyer,doctor,policeman,judge,soldier we should support total amnesty for all criminals and empty the jails....the term "illegal" should be done away with,indeed all law should be done away with so that evil can reign supreme....who knows,maybe Jesus would return sooner because of it.

 

[veteran]

Webster's list nonresistence as a synonym for pacifism....there is no difference unless you know more about the lanquage than they do....what you said applies to words as well,people pick the definitions that suit them

Exactly, non-resistence is simply another term for pacifist dogma.

One can easily come up with many other terms for pacifist dogma once previous failed attempts to deceive don't work.

 

[Thomas Kelly guessed]

People,

I reason some people believe serving is doing or saying whatever pleases themselves and not obeying one of God's commands and the command of which is shown in Matthew 7:12 which you may look at below.

12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

New International Version (NIV)

So from the sayings of God through persons like Jesus and the apostles a person may learn how to obey that commandment.

And you may have looked at "So in everything" which means in words we speak, deeds and all the time.

One of God's commandments is ‘serve your neighbor as yourself.’ and in doing that we serve God. You may look at a translation below of part of Matthew 22

37 Jesus replied: “‘Serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Serve your neighbor as yourself.’40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

You may look at a translation below of part of Matthew 6:24.

“No one can serve two masters. Either you will neglect the one and serve the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Have you ever looked at Luke 17 ? In it you may look at "we have only done our duty." You may see part of it below.

7 “Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? 8 Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? 9 Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? 10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

New International Version (NIV)

 

[veteran]

The point of my posting the Romans 13 Scripture is to prove that God ordains those in power over us, and they have been given the power of the sword against evil.

Rom 13:3-4
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(KJV)

That is Scripture evidence from God through Apostle Paul that bearing the sword against evil IS... necessary and warranted. That's on Absolute Authority from God and His Christ through Apostle Paul as CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.

Furthermore, the subject of "rulers" there is not isolated to the pagan unbelieving. It also includes CHRISTIAN rulers in charge over a state.

 

[Strat]

Exactly, non-resistence is simply another term for pacifist dogma.

One can easily come up with many other terms for pacifist dogma once previous failed attempts to deceive don't work.

The only thing i wish from the pacifist/non resistors is confess to and repent of the sin of sharing in the spoils of what they claim to be against and live out the convictions they profess in a place where it will actually cost them something...kind of difficult for any in the western world to do that at this time but the time is coming...if a man robs a bank and shares the money with me and i know where it came from i am as guilty as he is.....every pacifist i have ever met always seemed to subscribe to a form that provioed for their personal safety.

 

[Axehead]

I am not a "bully" i speak direct minus all the fluff and nonsense that among christians who have died to self should be completely uneccesary,those driven by self will always be emotional manipulators,their first response to anything is how it makes them feel personally...then true to form and with no small amount of hypocrisy they will execute judgement on anyone who has dared to offend their delicate sense of self...as you have done,if you would like to continue to communicate minus the obsession of self and emotion let me know.

Well, I made a big mistake in wondering if you were the "forum bully", because you seized that rabbit trail and still refuse to answer my question.

Was Jesus a Pacifist?
Did He or did He not teach and live Non-Resistance and overcome evil with good?

I have only ask you to accept the logical conclusion of your position....which is a world that is 100 times more the nightmare of evil than it already is and that this is God's will for the world and mankind...evil takes many forms,if we are not to oppse evil then we must not oppose it in any form it takes...we should not seek to heal the sick or rescue anyone in an emergency situation...we must not take any job that would involve us in the restraint of evil in any way...a christian should not be a lawyer, doctor, policeman, judge, soldier we should support total amnesty for all criminals and empty the jails....the term "illegal" should be done away with,indeed all law should be done away with so that evil can reign supreme....who knows,maybe Jesus would return sooner because of it.

This is ludicrous. Christian's do not ignore sin, Pacifists do. And if a Christian is part of civil government, God still holds the individual responsible for his actions not the government, so they better be just actions under the law. In other words, don't use your position for corrupt activities or inequitable activities favoring some people over others. If a Christian is in civil government, he better abide by the laws of the land and stay within those parameters. I am sure you would agree.

I personally don't believe God leads His children to fight in this world's wars and cannot see that in Jesus' teachings.

Axehead

 

[Strat]

Well, I made a big mistake in wondering if you were the "forum bully", because you seized that rabbit trail and still refuse to answer my question.

Was Jesus a Pacifist?
Did He or did He not teach and live Non-Resistance and overcome evil with good?



This is ludicrous. Christian's do not ignore sin, Pacifists do. And if a Christian is part of civil government, God still holds the individual responsible for his actions not the government, so they better be just actions under the law. In other words, don't use your position for corrupt activities or inequitable activities favoring some people over others. If a Christian is in civil government, he better abide by the laws of the land and stay within those parameters. I am sure you would agree.

I personally don't believe God leads His children to fight in this world's wars and cannot see that in Jesus' teachings.

Axehead

No,i commented on your obsession with yourself and your emotions and ill informed hypocritical judgement of me...your understanding of the lanquage should be as good as your attempts at emotional manipulation...pacifism is non resistence and non resistence is pacifism....i guess if i said water was wet you would insist that it is not wet but moist.

Jesus did teach nonresistence/pacifism in one's personal life...however one cannot overcome evil by doing nothing to oppose it..your position offers and eithr/or proposition and prohibits christians from being involved in any position that would resist evil in any way...ie any position in civil government because the purpose of civil government is to oppose evil and i suppose if you want to say that putting someone in jail or a policeman killing a criminal in the act of commiting a crime to protect the innocent is overcoming evil with good then perhaps we have common ground....or a man defending the family that God has entrsuted him with.

Since Jesus did not specify which type of evil not to resist the question remains open..as far as fighhting in Wars is concerned i agree to the extent that many Wars are waged not for the defense of borders from invaders but for the profit of a few.

The American military has been sorely abused inj the last 100 years and its original purpose all but obscured.

 

[Axehead]

The only thing i wish from the pacifist/non resistors is confess to and repent of the sin of sharing in the spoils of what they claim to be against and live out the convictions they profess in a place where it will actually cost them something...kind of difficult for any in the western world to do that at this time but the time is coming...if a man robs a bank and shares the money with me and i know where it came from i am as guilty as he is.....every pacifist i have ever met always seemed to subscribe to a form that provioed for their personal safety.

By your logic, then all Christians who pay their taxes, and obey the authorities in government, need to go one step further and offer their sons and daughters on the world's altar of warfare in order to be in your good graces and considered by you to be good Christians. It doesn't make them good Christians, just wonderful worldly citizens. And if they don't offer their sons and daughters to the war god of this world, then they are not fit to be called Christians, followers of the Lamb. That's disgusting! You speak of a Christianity I don't read about in the New Testament. Your logic indicts all Christians who follow the Scriptures as leeches. I can't help but think that the Lord regards that notion as despicable, especially sine He is the one that laid out how we are to treat our enemies.

Non-resistance followers of the Lamb, don't think about their personal safety, that is why they turn the other cheek (I think Jesus said that). They don't think about self. They think about the sinner who is lost just like Jesus did. Everyone else, thinks about self and is obsessed with preserving and saving their lives.

Read my thread on Non-Resistance and Pacifism and you may be enlightened a bit with the difference between Non-Resistance and Pacifism. WIth Jesus Christ and His followers it is not about War or no war. Non-resistant Christians are not against war per say because we know from Jesus that the world will always have wars. If all the true Believers of Jesus Christ refused to fight this world's fleshly battles, they would still have plenty of men and women to fight their wars. War is a result of sin. Non-resistant followers of the Lamb are against overcoming evil with evil because the Lamb is against that.

Veteran, do you believe Jesus Christ was a Pacifist? Can you answer this question?

Did He teach aggression, overcoming evil with evil. If not, what did He teach? What does your Bible say? Did He teach us to avenge ourselves against our enemies or do good to them who persecute us and despitefully use us? What does your Bible say?

Non-resistance is not passivism or Pacifism, it is aggressive, active love in overcoming evil with good.

The more you and Strat post the more evident it is becoming that you both refuse to face the words of Jesus Christ. You are blinded by your doctrine not able to see whole chapters of the New Testament.

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


Axehead

No,i commented on your obsession with yourself and your emotions and ill informed hypocritical judgement of me...your understanding of the lanquage should be as good as your attempts at emotional manipulation...pacifism is non resistence and non resistence is pacifism....i guess if i said water was wet you would insist that it is not wet but moist.

I think you are mistaken there. But we will have to agree to disagree.

Jesus did teach nonresistence/pacifism in one's personal life...

I would like you to show me where Jesus taught Pacifism. Thank you for saying He taught non-resistance. Look at my thread to understand the difference between Pacifism and Non-Resistance and show me where Jesus taught Pacifism.

however one cannot overcome evil by doing nothing to oppose it

That is fine, if that is your belief. Please show me scriptures that tell us how to oppose it or overcome it.

your position offers and eithr/or proposition and prohibits christians from being involved in any position that would resist evil in any way...

That is not true. Jesus and the Apostles teach us many ways to resist evil. Just not with evil.

ie any position in civil government because the purpose of civil government is to oppose evil and i suppose if you want to say that putting someone in jail or a policeman killing a criminal in the act of commiting a crime to protect the innocent is overcoming evil with good then perhaps we have common ground....or a man defending the family that God has entrsuted him with.

We have common ground.

Since Jesus did not specify which type of evil not to resist the question remains open..as far as fighting in Wars is concerned i agree to the extent that many Wars are waged not for the defense of borders from invaders but for the profit of a few.

God knows that we live in an evil world. Jesus gave Christians an out on paying taxes to Caesar. Many of our taxes go for non-Christian things per say. But, the Lord told us to render to Caesar the things that belong to Caesar and render to God the things that belong to God. So, thankfully, He said that or else the IRS would have put all of us in Jail for refusing to pay our taxes. I hold my nose when I pay them, but I pay them or else I would be in rebellion to God.

Most wars are political. James talks about the motive for wars and is pretty right on about them. Strat, just think if all Christians in all nations believed they should fight the world's wars. To what logical conclusion would that bring us? Plus the Muslims or any other religion that promoted the doctrine of "Just Wars" would see no difference between Christianity and their religion.

The American military has been sorely abused inj the last 100 years and its original purpose all but obscured.

I am sure that is true. Things are changing for the worst all over this planet. I come from a family rich in military history, having also been in the military. The difference is that I got saved and my kingdom orientation has changed.

All the best,
Axehead

 

[Strat]

By your logic, then all Christians who pay their taxes, and obey the authorities in government, need to go one step further and offer their sons and daughters on the world's altar of warfare in order to be in your good graces and considered by you to be good Christians. It doesn't make them good Christians, just wonderful worldly citizens. And if they don't offer their sons and daughters to the war god of this world, then they are not fit to be called Christians, followers of the Lamb. That's disgusting! You speak of a Christianity I don't read about in the New Testament. Your logic indicts all Christians who follow the Scriptures as leeches. I can't help but think that the Lord regards that notion as despicable, especially sine He is the one that laid out how we are to treat our enemies.

Non-resistance followers of the Lamb, don't think about their personal safety, that is why they turn the other cheek (I think Jesus said that). They don't think about self. They think about the sinner who is lost just like Jesus did. Everyone else, thinks about self and is obsessed with preserving and saving their lives.

Read my thread on Non-Resistance and Pacifismand you may be enlightened a bit with the difference between Non-Resistance and Pacifism. WIth Jesus Christ and His followers it is not about War or no war. Non-resistant Christians are not against war per say because we know from Jesus that the world will always have wars. If all the true Believers of Jesus Christ refused to fight this world's fleshly battles, they would still have plenty of men and women to fight their wars. War is a result of sin. Non-resistant followers of the Lamb are against overcoming evil with evil because the Lamb is against that.

Veteran, do you believe Jesus Christ was a Pacifist? Can you answer this question?

Did He teach aggression, overcoming evil with evil. If not, what did He teach? What does your Bible say? Did He teach us to avenge ourselves against our enemies or do good to them who persecute us and despitefully use us? What does your Bible say?

Non-resistance is not passivism or Pacifism, it is aggressive, active love in overcoming evil with good.

The more you and Strat post the more evident it is becoming that you both refuse to face the words of Jesus Christ. You are blinded by your doctrine not able to see whole chapters of the New Testament.

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


Axehead

Like i said,i never met a paciifist yet who did not subscribe to a form that provides for their personal safety...i ask you what your position has cost you and since you refuse to answer i will assume it is nothing yet your security has cost thousands of others"plenty of men and women" their lives so you can sit comfortably at home and suggest that they fought in vain,your lack of comprehension in the english lanquage is profound...where have i or anyone else saisd that we support war for personal gain ? or any desire to sacrifice our children at the altar of war ?

 

[Axehead]

Like i said,i never met a paciifist yet who did not subscribe to a form that provides for their personal safety...i ask you what your position has cost you and since you refuse to answer i will assume it is nothing yet your security has cost thousands of others their lives.

That's because it's not about me, Strat. If I told you what my beliefs have cost me, that would have no effect on you compared to the effect that the Word of God should be having on you.

My experiences do not trump God's Word.

So, you see, I am not "feeling" based. I am Word based but you keep pointing at me and I have no choice but to conclude you don't want to consider the Words of Jesus and the Apostles, all of which is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I will just leave you with this. I made my points.

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


In the interest of peace, Axehead standing down, now.

All the best,
Axehead

 

[Strat]

That's because it's not about me, Strat. If I told you what my beliefs have cost me, that would have no effect on you compared to the effect that the Word of God should be having on you.

My experiences do not trump God's Word.

So, you see, I am not "feeling" based. I am Word based but you keep pointing at me and I have no choice but to conclude you don't want to consider the Words of Jesus and the Apostles, all of which is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I will just leave you with this. I made my points.

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


In the interest of peace, Axehead standing down, now.

All the best,
Axehead

I understand all of this in regard to one's personal life,however if it is to be applied to every theatre and venue of life then christians are prohibited from any position that would require them to resist evil in any way...all positions of power and the sword should be in the hands of unbelievers. to do with the world as they please...and that is why this world would be 1000 times more of a nightmare than it already is....thank God for the pagans i guess....it was quite disresectful of you to use the phrase"plenty of men and women" in regard to those who have fought and died....my father was one of those men and i never knew him because of the war he fought in.

 

[Axehead]

I understand all of this in regard to one's personal life,however if it is to be applied to every theatre and venue of life then christians are prohibited from any position that would require them to resist evil in any way...all positions of power and the sword should be in the hands of unbelievers. to do with the world as they please...and that is why this world would be 1000 times more of a nightmare than it already is....thank God for the pagans i guess....it was quite disresectful of you to use the phrase"plenty of men and women" in regard to those who have fought and died....my father was one of those men and i never knew him because of the war he fought in.

It wasn't meant to be personal. How could it be? Christian history shows that the early church did not believe in fighting the world's wars. We have gone way off the scriptures in the last 2000 years to the point where we vilify Christians who seek to follow the Scriptures with all their heart. That is quite a skewed course we have taken. The world will defend itself. It has been employed in wars since the dawn of time and it will continue. The future militarys will actually be employed in persecuting Christians. Many men also get saved during wartime, so hopefully you can rest in the fact that your father if not saved may have gotten saved. I am sorry for your loss, and I hope you don't think it is the fault of other Christians who refused to fight. I also understand better your zealousness for the military.

Axehead standing down, again.

 

[veteran]

I understand all of this in regard to one's personal life,however if it is to be applied to every theatre and venue of life then christians are prohibited from any position that would require them to resist evil in any way...all positions of power and the sword should be in the hands of unbelievers. to do with the world as they please...and that is why this world would be 1000 times more of a nightmare than it already is....thank God for the pagans i guess....it was quite disresectful of you to use the phrase"plenty of men and women" in regard to those who have fought and died....my father was one of those men and i never knew him because of the war he fought in.

These Socialists that come here to this forum don't care about us, nor those who died to preserve our freedoms. When they speak one thing out of one corner of their mouths, and then another thing out of the other corner, it's easy to fathom the political agenda they're actually on with trying to use God's Word to do it with.

Prior to the 1900's in America, Christian society was very, very strong in making a stand for the nation and its laws. Communist subversives have changed that since. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.