"Loving yourself"

[justbyfaith]

There are those who teach that it is imperative that we love ourselves because if we don't love ourselves we can't love other people.

They cite the second greatest commandment in the law, which is even the royal law according to scripture, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

The fact is, we all love ourselves; because we are all sinners.

Selfishness is the result of being sinful; and this teaching, which has even found a place in the body of Christ, is wrong in that it justifies selfishness to those who want to believe that they are justified in loving themselves while they do nothing in the way of loving other people.

The reality is the acronym JOY---Jesus, Others, You.

Put Jesus first, others second, and yourself last...

This is the recipe for joy.

Loving yourself is actually condemned in holy scripture; and therefore this taking of the royal law out of context in order to justify selfishness is basically unfounded.

2Ti 3:1, This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2, For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5, Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6, For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8, Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9, But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

 

[amadeus]

@justbyfaith

Yes, everyone is born selfish when first they come out of their mother's womb. In the beginning it is not an evil thing, but rather a survival mechanism or instinct. Human babies alone, without help would die soon after birth. They draw attention to their needs by crying. That is not evil.

As the child grows and becomes aware his crying without proper direction will become selfish. This happens to everyone, but some are worse than others because they do not have proper direction or training:

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Prov. 2:6

But even the best of Christian parents are not without fault in their training of their own children, are they? We all miss the way or those born again quench the Spirit in us.

Jesus presented himself as a man of flesh completely selfless fitting what Paul describes here:

"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others." Phil 2:3-4

Jesus was not selfish as we all are in our beginnings, but selfless...

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself... " John 10:17-18

How many us are truly willing to do this for even people that we do not know?

He prayed that we might be like him as he is like his Father:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that I disagree with you, @amadeus, and would say that the crying of the baby is selfish and therefore rooted in sin.

It may in fact be necessary for the survival of the baby; but it is no less sinful.

The issue is that selfish = sinful and the crying of the baby is selfish.

That it is necessary for the survival of the baby, therefore, in no way precludes that it is not sinful.

Also, if you find a parent with a baby that does not have the ability to cry, if it is a loving parent, they will pay extra special attention to the baby to meet its needs apart from the baby crying in order to have its needs met.

Therefore in an ideal situation, where you have ideal parents, crying is not necessary for survival and your point is therefore moot. In a heavenly situation the crying of the baby is not necessary for its survival.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I think that I disagree with you, @amadeus, and would say that the crying of the baby is selfish and therefore rooted in sin.

It may in fact be necessary for the survival of the baby; but it is no less sinful.

The issue is that selfish = sinful and the crying of the baby is selfish.

That it is necessary for the survival of the baby, therefore, in no way precludes that it is not sinful.

Also, if you find a parent with a baby that does not have the ability to cry, if it is a loving parent, they will pay extra special attention to the baby to meet its needs apart from the baby crying in order to have its needs met.

Therefore in an ideal situation, where you have ideal parents, crying is not necessary for survival and your point is therefore moot. In a heavenly situation the crying of the baby is not necessary for its survival.

You are uneducated as to the cry of a baby.... what you propose sounds like the Freudian Theory of psychosocial development...
Sigmund Freud's Psychoanalytic Theories in Psychology
In addition to these two main components of the mind, the Freudian theory also divides human personality up into three major components: the id, ego, and superego.

• The id is the most primitive part of the personality that is the source of all our most basic urges. This part of the personality is entirely unconscious and serves as the source of all libidinal energy.
• The ego is the component of personality that is charged with dealing with reality and helps ensure that the demands of the id are satisfied in ways that are realistic, safe, and socially acceptable.
• The superego is the part of the personality that holds all of the internalized morals and standards that we acquire from our parents, family, and society at large.

This theory has been challenged and isn't referred to by most child psychologists.

 

[amadeus]

I think that I disagree with you, @amadeus, and would say that the crying of the baby is selfish and therefore rooted in sin.

It may in fact be necessary for the survival of the baby; but it is no less sinful.

The issue is that selfish = sinful and the crying of the baby is selfish.

That it is necessary for the survival of the baby, therefore, in no way precludes that it is not sinful.

Also, if you find a parent with a baby that does not have the ability to cry, if it is a loving parent, they will pay extra special attention to the baby to meet its needs apart from the baby crying in order to have its needs met.

Therefore in an ideal situation, where you have ideal parents, crying is not necessary for survival and your point is therefore moot. In a heavenly situation the crying of the baby is not necessary for its survival.

If an infant only just born is cast into a dumpster as some we have read about and no one hears its cries it soon dies from exposure and/or starvation. Without help it cannot survive. It is not sinning when it cries. It is hungry, thirsty, cold and perhaps in pain. Good parents are needed, but among natural people too often they are not available. No one with ears to hear! Good parents are an imperfect type of shadow of the ideal or perfect parents.

The ideal situation is with God as our Father and the Church which has overcome the world as the Mother. We may have a idea where the Father is but where is the Mother?

When we start out as a natural baby we are a clean slate in our innocence because we have not learned about right and wrong. Our parents and the people around begin feeding us from that same wrong tree, "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" and as we eat we learn to be selfish like our parents... So then this should help us understand what Jesus meant here:

"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 18:3

So then we are to become as little children who have not yet move so far into the evil selfishness of the older practiced sinners that we all became...

 

[Amazed@grace]

Where did Jesus say he was to sacrifice himself to take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life as a sinner?

 

[justbyfaith]

@amadeus, I think that you should read Psalms 58:3.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

I don't have trouble loving myself but I have trouble with how society will probably view me in certain things

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus, I think that you should read Psalms 58:3.

Thank you for the suggestion.

I cannot give you better vision nor can you improve mine. God gives the increase!

 

[Amazed@grace]

There are those who teach that it is imperative that we love ourselves because if we don't love ourselves we can't love other people.

They cite the second greatest commandment in the law, which is even the royal law according to scripture, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

The fact is, we all love ourselves; because we are all sinners.

Selfishness is the result of being sinful; and this teaching, which has even found a place in the body of Christ, is wrong in that it justifies selfishness to those who want to believe that they are justified in loving themselves while they do nothing in the way of loving other people.

The reality is the acronym JOY---Jesus, Others, You.

Put Jesus first, others second, and yourself last...

This is the recipe for joy.

Loving yourself is actually condemned in holy scripture; and therefore this taking of the royal law out of context in order to justify selfishness is basically unfounded.

2Ti 3:1, This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2, For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5, Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6, For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8, Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9, But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

If I may, the opening of your OP is worded to address those not yet redeemed in Christ.
It does not pertain to the Saved ones here.
Just to help in my small way to clear up any misconceptions.

Those who are reborn in Christ are no longer the fallen damned lost sinners they were prior.
Praise God for his mercies.

Allelujah!