Lucifer or a Fallen Angel

[TLHKAJ]

Isaiah 14:12: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!”

I can see how you come to this conclusion, except ....the scripture says Lucifer is fallen from heaven. Being called a man ...even Jesus was called a man and often angels are referred to as men when they appear in human form.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Like Ezekiel 28:13-18, this section of Scripture does not mention the words "devil, satan, or fallen angel", so sadly again, we have an inferred argument from the gecko (if you are Australian this will make sense ) however, for all others, it means "from the get go!"

I can't believe Christians make the same mistake on Ezekiel 28 as they do here in Isaiah 14:12-14 in identifying the true nature of Lucifer.

Lucifer is not a rebel angel!

It is explicitly stated with absolute clarity:- "you will taunt the king of Babylon with these words "Look how the oppressor has met his end! Hostility has ceased!" Isaiah 14:4

(Now admittedly it will be in the form of a parable so we will need to strap our spiritual helmets on and channel the Father and seek to understand how He communicates to His Children)

You cant blame me for sighing once again because he we go again... Isaiah 13 is a prophecy against Babylon itself, but now the prophecy is directed against the king of Babylon.

It's not looking good dear Christians.

To be cont...

F2F

I agree Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 is not about Lucifer. I think that is obvious as you imply.

 

[Wrangler]

Why do you believe it's fictional? (I believe it's fact and there is nothing that alludes to it being fictional.)

Job is allegorical, which is why it is placed in the Wisdom section of the OT. Many recognize Job as the oldest book of the OT.

 

[Wrangler]

Hmmm you must have a difference there between doctrine and wisdom? Could it be argued they are one in the same? Maybe you can provide an example?

Doctrine is about theology, like there is a God.

Wisdom addresses attitude and action, like beginning with fearing God and looking both ways before crossing the street.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

There is this biblical concept that you obviously haven't heard of called prophetic duality. Satan is the king of Babylon because he rules this world, which the Bible also prophetically refers to as Babylon since this present evil civilization originated from Babel.

That Ezekiel passage doesn't have to explicitly mention anything about Satan or a fallen angel because that history happens to be repeated in Rev. 12:7-9. Isolating Eze. 28 and Isa. 14 in an attempt to argue against biblical teaching only highlights your own ignorance of what is written in Isa. 28:9-10 about how biblical doctrines are like jigsaw puzzles and that a person has to get all the pieces and put them together to understand the whole picture.

You are completely wrong on the premise that Eze. 28:13-18 doesn't mention anything about Lucifer, Satan, or fallen angels for the following reasons:

1. Eze. 28:13 says this being was in Eden. It clearly isn't referring to the human ruler of Tyre. This is prophetic duality it work because this is where it transitions to giving the history of the being that truly ruled Tyre from behind the scenes.

2. The "king of Tyre" that was in Eden is the same serpent that tempted Adam and Eve.

3. The serpent that tempted Adam and Eve is identified in Rev. 12:9 as Satan.

4. Eze. 28:14-15 clearly says this same being was a cherub that was perfect until lawlessness was found in him, which clearly means this being was a fallen angel.

5. Eze. 28:16 says this being deceived other angels into helping him rebel against God. So now we see a fallen angel producing other fallen angels by deceiving them. This verse once again mentions a cherub that had turned rogue, so there is no doubt that the leading rebel was formerly an angel.

6. Rev. 12:4, 7-9 repeats the same exact history that is given in Eze. 28:13-18, only this time it actually identifies the main rebel by name.

The problem with your theology is that fails to understand the fact that at Eze. 28:17, the prophecy transitions back to prophesying against the human ruler of Tyre. As verses 13-18 clearly shows, this passage couldn't possibly have been referring to a human being because the history that is given in this passage took place long before Adam was ever created.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Job is allegorical, which is why it is placed in the Wisdom section of the OT. Many recognize Job as the oldest book of the OT.

Job is not allegorical for one simple reason: there is plenty of evidence to believe that the Eliphaz that is mentioned in Job is the same Eliphaz that is listed as one of Esau's sons in Gen. 36:4, 12, 15, 1 Chr. 1:34. Furthermore, Job takes place at a time where Satan still had unfettered access to God's throne room, which definitely destroys any idea that the Job book was meant to be read as an allegory.

 

[Wrangler]

Furthermore, Job takes place at a time where Satan still had unfettered access to God's throne room

Given that this is inconsistent with doctrine, of Jesus seeing Satans fall, Satan having access to God is the best evidence that the story is allegorical.

None of the Wisdom literature is non-fiction. As another put it, that does not mean it is not true.