Make no image....

[Danube]

This is one of the most misunderstood and abused passages of Scripture by Fundamentalist Christians.

When read in CONTEXT – it is abundantly clear that this commandment is NOT against the creation of images – but the WORSHIP pf them as gods.
If it were simply against the CREATION of images – then God Himself broke His own Commandment when He commanded Moses to make Two GOLDEN CHERUBIM to lace on top of the Ark (Exod. 25:18).

He would have also violated His own rule when He commanded Moses to create a Bronze Serpent and place it on a pole (Num. 21:8).

Case CLOSED.

God also uses the enemies of Israel to punish them, due to the Israelites disobedience...so to use the same arguement you used, would mean God hates Israel because he sent the Babylonians to take them captive!


Also...

When was the last time you saw golden cherubim on earth, in the heavens or in the sea? (which the commandment does specify what not to make).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Let's look at the meaning of worship.

Definition

1. to bow down
   1. (Qal) to bow down
   2. (Hiphil) to depress (fig)
   3. (Hithpael)
      1. to bow down, prostrate oneself 1c
   4. before superior in homage 1c
   5. before God in worship 1c
   6. before false gods 1c
   7. before angel

Catholics bow down pray statues of Mary's and Saints.

That is worship.

They kiss images and pray to necklaces and crucifixes.
That is worship.

WRONG as usual, Einstein . . .

In Gen. 3:33 – Jacob BOWED all the way to the ground – SEVEN TIMES to his brother Esau.
This was NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

In 1 Kings 1:31 – Bathsheba BOWED all the way to the ground to David.
This was NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

In 1 Kings 2:19 - Solomon BOWED all the way to the ground to his mother Bathsheba.
This was NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

Most men get on their knees to propose marriage to their girlfriends.
This is NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

I suggest you LEARN the difference.
I feel sorry for your poor wife . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

God also uses the enemies of Israel to punish them, due to the Israelites disobedience...so to use the same arguement you used, would mean God hates Israel because he sent the Babylonians to take them captive!


Also...

When was the last time you saw golden cherubim on earth, in the heavens or in the sea? (which the commandment does specify what not to make).

Moses was ALSO commanded to make Bronze Serpent.

 

[Danube]

Let's look at the meaning of worship.

Definition

1. to bow down
   1. (Qal) to bow down
   2. (Hiphil) to depress (fig)
   3. (Hithpael)
      1. to bow down, prostrate oneself 1c
   4. before superior in homage 1c
   5. before God in worship 1c
   6. before false gods 1c
   7. before angel

Catholics bow down pray statues of Mary's and Saints.

That is worship.

They kiss images and pray to necklaces and crucifixes.

That is worship.

I see similarities with Muslims who are made to prove their Islamic faith by attending Mecca where they revere and kiss a piece of moon-rock .... Which I always thought made the kaaba an idol.
But yeah... Catholics unwittingly serve at least 3 Sumerian fertility Gods, but then again Catholicism has never been a honest way of defining Christ anyway.

 

[CoreIssue]

WRONG as usual, Einstein . . .

In Gen. 3:33 – Jacob BOWED all the way to the ground – SEVEN TIMES to his brother Esau.
This was NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

In 1 Kings 1:31 – Bathsheba BOWED all the way to the ground to David.
This was NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

In 1 Kings 2:19 - Solomon BOWED all the way to the ground to his mother Bathsheba.
This was NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

Most men get on their knees to propose marriage to their girlfriends.
This is NOT considered “worship” – but love and respect.

I suggest you LEARN the difference.
I feel sorry for your poor wife . . .

All I did was post a definition.

I've heard all the Catholic excuses.

An icon represents what it is an image of. It is literally a gateway to the person.

Praying to the icon is praying to the person represents. Thus it is an idol.

Trying to compare it to a marriage proposal is obscene.

In elected office I dealt with Asian who constantly bowed.

As a mayor I got a deep bow where others would get a nod if anything.

So do not pretend I don't understand better than you.

Your icons have deeper meaning than your claiming.

My poor wife? What a jerk to try to involve her to live been married happily 46 years 47 come September.

How long did you been married?

Bowing does not always mean love. Most of time simply means respect for position.

Kissing the Pope's ring is disgusting and a sign of subservience.

 

[CoreIssue]

I see similarities with Muslims who are made to prove their Islamic faith by attending Mecca where they revere and kiss a piece of moon-rock .... Which I always thought made the kaaba an idol.
But yeah... Catholics unwittingly serve at least 3 Sumerian fertility Gods, but then again Catholicism has never been a honest way of defining Christ anyway.

And remember, the Eagle on the Pope staff is a Roman legion god.

 

[Danube]

Exodus 20:4-5 New International Version (NIV)
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them;

Is the full stop after the word below significant?

 

[CoreIssue]

Is the full stop after the word below significant?

If I understand what you're saying, no.

 

[Danube]

Moses was ALSO commanded to make Bronze Serpent.

Yes ok... but you purposely overlook that IT IS GOD who commanded Moses to make it. The commandment addresses us NOT to make an image. Which is totally different to your example.
Apples and Oranges are both fruit but are not the same thing.
God did not try and stop satan from trying to tempt Jesus.

 

[BreadOfLife]

All I did was post a definition.
I've heard all the Catholic excuses.
An icon represents what it is an image of. It is literally a gateway to the person.

Praying to the icon is praying to the person represents. Thus it is an idol.

Trying to compare it to a marriage proposal is obscene.
In elected office I dealt with Asian who constantly bowed.
As a mayor I got a deep bow where others would get a nod if anything.
So do not pretend I don't understand better than you.

Your icons have deeper meaning than your claiming.
My poor wife? What a jerk to try to involve her to live been married happily 46 years 47 come September.
How long did you been married?
Bowing does not always mean love. Most of time simply means respect for position.
Kissing the Pope's ring is disgusting and a sign of subservience.

Not sure where you get your moronic assertions in RED - but they are NOT shared by Church teachings.
A statue or image is not a "gateway" to anything. They are simply reminders of the people they represent - much like the pictures of your loved ones in your wallet or the picture of Aunt Winnie pn your mantle at home.

An "IDOL", by definition is something that is worshiped ass a god.
YOU make false accusations because of ONE simple reason: Your hatred for the Catholic Church.

NONE of it, however, is rooted in fact. It ALL comes from your pathetic ignorance.
It's no WONDER your online forum died . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes ok... but you purposely overlook that IT IS GOD who commanded moses to make it. The commandment addresses us NOT to make an image. Which is totally different to your example.
Apples and Oranges are both fruit but are not the same thing.

WRONG.

The fact that GOD commanded Moses to create images PROVES that Exod. 20:4-5 is NOT about the creation of images - but the WORSHIP of them. Solomon placed statues of cherubim in the Temple - and God was PLEASED.

God is NOT a hypocrite and does NOT contradict Himself.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I see similarities with Muslims who are made to prove their Islamic faith by attending Mecca where they revere and kiss a piece of moon-rock .... Which I always thought made the kaaba an idol.
But yeah... Catholics unwittingly serve at least 3 Sumerian fertility Gods, but then again Catholicism has never been a honest way of defining Christ anyway.

Care to substantiate that piece of manure?

 

[Danube]

Care to substantiate that piece of manure?

No problem.
Where would you like me to start?

An = saint Anne (fertility prayers = worship)
Innana (Ishtar) Easter worship which is a paganised whitewash of passover also mirrored in Babylonia & Arkkaddia.
Saint Mary (worshipped in Mexico by catholics) personified with the crest and suckling newborn which has been personified also as Egyptian.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And remember, the Eagle on the Pope staff is a Roman legion god.

And if you were honest - which you're NOT - you would ALSO see that this is a symbol of GOD's strength . . .

Isa. 40:31
But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.

Psalm 103:5
Who satisfies you with good so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.

Exod. 19:4
You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.

Rev. 12:14
But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

Jer. 48:40
For thus says the Lord: “Behold, one shall fly swiftly like an eagle and spread his wings against Moab;

Jer. 49:22
Behold, one shall mount up and fly swiftly like an eagle and spread his wings against Bozrah, and the heart of the warriors of Edom shall be in that day like the heart of a woman in her birth pains.”

Deut. 32:11
Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, that flutters over its young, spreading out its wings, catching them, bearing them on its pinions,

Job 39:27-30
Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up and makes his nest on high? On the rock he dwells and makes his home, on the rocky crag and stronghold.”

NO WONDER why your little online forum died such a painful death . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No problem.
Where would you like me to start?

Start with the truth.
I eagerly await your "evidence" . . .

 

[Danube]

NO WONDER why your little online forum died such a painful death . . .

? Haven't a clue what you mean.
Please elaborate

Start with the truth.
I eagerly await your "evidence" . . .

Ok but what has any of that got to do with Catholicism ... Does that make the eagle on the dollar bill the same? No.
Jesus gives ULTRA CLEAR instructions for prayer to the Father, so why do you pray to plastic dummies dressed like whores (painted ladies)?

 

[BreadOfLife]

No problem.
Where would you like me to start?

An = saint Anne (fertility prayers = worship)
Innana (Ishtar) Easter worship which is a paganised whitewash of passover also mirrored in Babylonia & Arkkaddia.
Saint Mary (worshipped in Mexico by catholics) personified with the crest and suckling newborn.

St. Anne - and ALL of the saints in Heaven are asked to intercede on our behalf as members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12).
They are no less members of that Body than those here on earth. In fact - their prayers are MORE powerful because they have been made perfect and righteous in Christ.
Rev. 21:27 says that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.
James 5:16 states emphatically that the prayers of a RIGHTEOUS person are very powerful.

Mary is NOT "worshiped" - only venerated.
Worship would entail making her a god - which she is NOT. The onus is on YOU to prove that she is worshiped a a god.

So far - all you've presented as "evidence" is your asinine and unsubstantiated claim . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

? Haven't a clue what you mean.
Please elaborate

MY mistake - I got you and CoreIssue mixed up.
Although, NOT that difficult to do considering the similar nonsense you both post . . .

Ok but what has any of that got to do with Catholicism ... Does that make the eagle on the dollar bill the same? No.
Jesus gives ULTRA CLEAR instructions for prayer to the Father, so why do you pray to plastic dummies dressed like whores (painted ladies)?

Which "plastic dummies" dressed like "whores"??
And WHO is praying TO any statues, Einstein?? I've never met a Catholic who prays TO statues.

Your idiotic accusations are becoming more and more, well . . . idiotic.

PS - Did Jesus give "ultra clear" instructions on how to pray to HIM?

 

[Danube]

St. Anne - and ALL of the saints in Heaven are asked to intercede on our behalf as members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12).
They are no less members of that Body than those here on earth. In fact - their prayers are MORE powerful because they have been made perfect and righteous in Christ.
Rev. 21:27 says that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.
James 5:16 states emphatically that the prayers of a RIGHTEOUS person are very powerful.

Mary is NOT "worshiped" - only venerated.
Worship would entail making her a god - which she is NOT. The onus is on YOU to prove that she is worshiped a a god.

So far - all you've presented as "evidence" is your asinine and unsubstantiated claim . . .

I couldn't care less for your thread derailment or your wierd assumed thing about a little online forum (evidence?).
Catholicism is ALL about earthly riches and hoarding treasure, plus other serious perversions that are rampant in your earthly church and that is all I need to know about it to know I want no part of it.
Understood?

 

[Danube]

WRONG.

The fact that GOD commanded Moses to create images PROVES that Exod. 20:4-5 is NOT about the creation of images - but the WORSHIP of them. Solomon placed statues of cherubim in the Temple - and God was PLEASED.

God is NOT a hypocrite and does NOT contradict Himself.

He was pleased because Solomon did what he was commanded to do you ring kissing fool.