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Manna Or Quail....our Choice

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by whirlwind, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    Was Jesus punished on the cross?
    Those who partake of Christ are crucified in their own flesh. If you perceive crucifixion as punishment then yes God punishes them. If you perceive crucifixion as a sacrifice then No, God does not punish but rewards for the sacrifice.

    You need to correct yourself with the Word Of God. I agree lust comes from within people not from the sea and not from outside of people. The worldly temptation are constantly all around all people and so are the temptations to follow false doctrines which tend to make you believe that you are feeding on the word of God when you are really feeding on the lies of the devil who leads people astray from the Word by making them think he is leading them into the Word.
    If the quail represents the false doctrines and worldliness including religious worldliness then those of us who know Truth need to "devour" them as it were in the sense of destroying them or dispelling them. Does that cause pain and suffering? Yes it does in the same way it causes Jesus pain and suffering.

    If the quail represent the flesh of Jesus then that flesh was destroyed on the cross, was it not?
    Jesus told us to eat His flesh. What does that mean to you?
    To me it means to become a partaker of His sufferings, a partaker of His rejections, Partaker of His pain and to become falsely accused and abused in the same way He is.

    I long after Truth and Righteousness so much that you could say I lust after it.. The Word of the Lord is meat which is the flesh of Jesus, and that meat will destroy the carnal flesh in us. I am wiling to endure that pain and suffering for as long as it takes till the carnal is completely destroyed.

    Phil 3:10-11 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

    Jesus destroyed, destroys and will always destroy the flesh of the carnal with flesh of the spiritual.

    The flesh must die to the carnal in order to live in the spiritual.

    I choose the manna and the quail at the same time. They are one flesh. They give life and death at the same time. Death to the carnal and life to the spiritual at the same time.
     
  2. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    I asked....."Now...was the quail the flesh of Christ? Does He punish us for partaking of Christ?" Your answer has NOTHING to do with the question. The quail is flesh...not the flesh of Christ but flesh. We aren't to lust after that. If the quail did represent the flesh of Christ we would not be punished for partaking. Those in the wilderness that asked for, lusted after and stuffed themselves with quail were punished. So, I ask again....do you continue to see the quail as the flesh of Christ?




    Oh pleeeese. :lol: Those in the wilderness were not partaking of the quail in order to dispel them. They LUSTED after the quail and therefore they were punished.



    The quail DO NOT represent the flesh of Christ. That is the point. In the wilderness God provided the living bread and the flesh that destroys. Our choice.


    John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.​

    The manna came down from heaven....Christ came down from heaven. The quail came from the sea. Who plays in the sea?


    I agree that we suffer with Him, we are and shall be rejected and falsely accused....as was He. This has nothing to do with quail :)




    Yes, the flesh must die. No, you cannot partake of both manna and quail at the same time. They are not one flesh.


    Deuteronomy 32:31-33 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges. For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter: Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.


    James 3:10-12 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.


    .
     
  3. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    Jesus became sin in order to overcome sin. He became death in order to overcome death through death. The flesh is made one flesh when God breaks down the enmity between them.

    The Pharisees saw Jesus as of the devil.
    The disciples saw Jesus as of God.
    The same Word came from the same mouth but was perceived as lies by one crowd and as Truth by another crowd.
    Can sweet water and bitter water come from the same fountain? Can blessing and cursing come from the same mouth? Can water and wine come from the same pot? Obviously it should not but it does in some cases. The same word can be perceived as being bitter when it is sweet.

    The carnal mind cannot understand these things but the Mind of Christ can and does understand ALL things.
    There is a false Christ and a real Christ. The real one will always overcome the false one as surely as light overcomes darkness.

    All the scriptures which apply to the devil also apply to the real Jesus Christ in the perception of the hypocrites who perceive Jesus as the devil.

    The principle is the same both ways.
    To sin against the carnal mind is to obey the Spiritual mind.
    To sin against the spiritual mind is to obey the Carnal mind.
    Either way the soul that sins will die. You cannot escape death. It is a necessary part of Life.

    You end up either dying to the carnal or dying to the spiritual but you will surely die one way or the other.

    You can partake of bread and flesh at the same time because Jesus said they were the same thing.

    John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    If people partake of the false Christ under the impression that they are eating "manna" from heaven, they are really eating quail according to your perception of quail being the things of the carnal minded flesh, are they not? That quail is then the meat they eat as they think they are eating manna or the bread of heaven. They call it manna ( truth ) but it is quail ( false doctrines) These people think they are alive but are dead in sin. They are workers of iniquity.

    If people partake of the real Christ they are eating manna and quail at the same time since the TRUTH ( manna) destroys the false doctrines or "eats up" the false doctrines. They end up living and dying at the same time. Their spirit lives with Christ and their flesh dies at the same time through the death of Christ. These people understand they are dead yet still alive in Christ.

    I die daily. I am crucified with Christ, yet I live, but the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not live by my own faith but by HIS FAITH.
     
  4. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    But is this what happened ?

    No, it CHOKED THEM TIL IT RAN OUT OF THEIR NOSTRILS.


    You eat as a process of staying alive and NOURISHING your body.

    Taking something within yourself either brings LIFE or DEATH ... TO YOU.

    You dont "devour wickedness" to remove it from the world .... im paraphrasing here, but this seems to be the gist of what you said.
     
  5. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Jesus did not say they were the same. You either can't see that or won't see it. Either way....not good my friend.


    The manna, the bread from heaven is His flesh. The quail, flown in from the sea is NOT THE FLESH of Christ. Now, you can lie to yourself all you want but you are misleading others. Be very careful and don't allow your pride and inability to admit error get in the way of understanding.



    Get real! Who do you think you're trying to snooker here? We're not idiots. Those that ate quail lusted after the quail. You are feeding quail to readers......

    2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.​



    The proof is in the pudding......we'll see.
     
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  6. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    You obviously don't understand the Hebrew metaphor "until it come out at your nostrils"

    Nothing literally came out of their nostrils and they were not literally choked by anything.

    When you eat of the Word of God ( His flesh or meat or bread ) it brings Life to the Spirit and death to the carnal mind and carnal flesh at the same time.
    Understand?
    The Word of God judges our carnal minded flesh constantly.
     
  7. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    Here is where Jesus said the bread is the flesh.

    John 6:51-58
    "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh." Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

    The bread which the fathers ate and died was what? Manna or Quail?

    If your father is the devil who is within you in the same way as the devil was in the Pharisees in the bible stories, and you eat the flesh of the Word of God. Who dies? You or your fathers who are the devils within you ?

    God killed their lusts with the flesh of the quail which is the WORD of God and the judgment of God against the carnal mind. God did not send lusts to feed their lusts. He sent them flesh but not the same flesh as they had in Egypt. He sent them flesh that would make them sick of their own lusts which were inside their hearts.
    The carnal man and the Spiritual man are not two different men they are the same person. They are two aspects of the same man. God kills one ( the carnal man within you ) and at the same time saves the other ( the spiritual man) within you. He does it with exactly the same WORD ( flesh, bread, meat ) of God.


    Now, you can lie to yourself all you want but you are misleading others with the idea that God sends two different kinds of meat in the wilderness or the idea that the bread is not also the meat. Be very careful and don't allow your pride and inability to admit error get in the way of your understanding.

    Whether you are an idiot or not is your judgment of yourself.
    People who eat the meat of the word of God tend to have a craving for it. It is so much of a craving that you could call it a lust if you wish. I see it as a good lust if it will kill the carnal mind and fleshly nature while at the same time giving Life to the Spiritual man within.
    However you can reject the WORD of God as much as you wish and keep your carnal fleshly nature as you attempt to separate the flesh from the Spirit in your carnal mind instead of keeping them together as ONE in the same way Jesus did and does and always will. You can pretend to be spiritual as much as you want and deny that the word of God kills your flesh if you wish. You can believe it only kills the flesh of those who are lusting after " Egypt" as much as you like but try to remember that false doctrines as yours are also from "Egypt". They are the false doctrines of the harlot church after which you lust and you can feed on them till you get sick of them as much as you want. God is angry with you and your false doctrines. Its about time you also got angry with yourself for teaching those false doctrines and started teaching Truth that sets people FREE from those false doctrines and kills those false doctrines in their hearts and minds and takes away the confusions and deceptions of the carnal mind.
    I am feeding you with the meat of God and you are the one who is rejecting it. How long do you wish to hold on to your false doctrines? How long do you need to choke on them before they kill you? You are only bringing swift destruction upon yourself.

    If I am the false prophet then may God destroy me immediately but If I am not then maybe you better ask the Lord whether or not you are the one in error who does not wish to admit his errors because of the pride and deception you have in your own heart.
    Ask the Lord to create a clean heart in you. The prayer in Psalm 51 is a good one to follow and mean it with your heart and mind and all that is within you.

    Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.


    Let him that has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying today.
     
  8. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Listen sweet pea....I KNOW THE BREAD IS HIS FLESH. It is the quail that IS NOT HIS FLESH.

    So, dine on all the quail you like. Stuff yourself until it comes out of your nostrils and....surprise, surpise we have enough comprehension to understand what that means. :lol: Bon a'petit


    .
     
  9. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    Oy!

    You mean descriptive language doesnt make cartoon pigs sprout wings and take to the skies ?

    I never wouldve guessed.


    For someone who understands metaphors how did this escape you.


    The wilderness journey is being walked out NOW in these last days .... if he had "killed their lusts ..." back then I believe people wouldnt be in nearly the shape they are currently in today.



    Since were having so much fun with metaphors, try this one on for size.

    You're PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.


    For a "lust" or hunger for His word to "kill the carnal mind and fleshly nature" is totally backwards.

    That carnal mind and fleshly nature is IN ENMITY to a desire or hunger for His word.
     
  10. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    Are you trying to tell me that God gave the children of Israel something to eat that was not of God but was of the devil?

    Are you trying to tell me that if you lust after something that is not good for you that the heavenly Father will let you eat it ?

    Are you a father at all? Do you have children ? If your children pester you to give them something that is not good for them will you give it to them and hope they choke on it ? Would you give them something that would kill them ? What kind of a father would give His own children something that would kill them and not be good for them? Is that your concept of God?

    If quail is the flesh of the world in your opinion then God might as well have left them all in Egypt and the wandering through the wilderness was a waste of time. God, being an all knowing God, knew it would all happen so why did He bother taking them into the wilderness in the first place if all He was going to feed them was the same as what they were eating in Egypt anyway? Why bother feeding them with their own lusts? Do you get rid of lusts by feeding those lusts?

    I will eat whatever God gives me knowing full well it is all for my own good. You can refuse to eat what God gives you as much as you wish and pick and chose the scriptures ( meat ) you like and those you don't like and interpret them any way you want.

    Do you suggest the children of Israel ought not to have eaten the food God gave them?
    What does God give you that you refuse to eat sweet pea?
     
  11. Paul

    Paul Member

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    I believe this post has run it course since its turning into and argument between the two of you. Tone it down a bit or I will close the thread.
     
  12. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    The "wilderness" is a spiritual journey through the trials and tests of the devil in order to try our faith.. Jesus went through it and all the children of God in the past present and future go through it as individuals. It is a journey of Life which repeats itself in every generation. All people who want to follow the Lord will go through it in the same way Jesus did and they will not be ready for any preaching till after they come through it in the same way Jesus did. Jesus did not preach to anyone till after his trials in the wilderness, did He? He studied to show Himself approved to God for most of His life. He was taught by his mother as a child and was taught by doctors and lawyers and scribes and religious leaders etc during his adolescence. He sat and studied with doctors from the age of 12 years. He was baptized in adulthood and was immediately sent into the wilderness after baptism in water. He only began to preach after He came out of the wilderness and only preached for three years before He was crucified and called a liar , blasphemer, of the devil etc.

    The lusts of the fathers were killed. That does not mean your lusts have also been killed. Your lusts will be killed when you eat the meat that God sends you to eat. The lusts of future generations will be killed when God sends them their meat to eat. They obviously can't eat it yet since they have not been born to eat anything yet. Each person, past present and future needs to go through the same trials and tests to purify them and test their faith. each one is at a different stage of growth just like all the people in this world are at different ages and at different stages of growth. The whole world is not the same age and at the same stage of growth. Some are born and some die at the same time. Life and death are happening at the same time all around us in the natural and it is the same in the spiritual realm. Life and death happen simultaneously.

    God does not give spiritual life to anyone without killing or destroying their flesh at the same time. God does not give anyone the mind of Christ without destroying their carnal mind at the same time. God does not give anyone righteousness without destroying their sinfulness. You cannot serve both God and sin at the same time. You cannot serve two masters at the same time.




    You are obviously confused and not understanding me at all.
    I never suggested that the carnal mind lusts for the word of God. The Spirit lusts for the Word of God and that lust goes against the flesh and kills the flesh.

    Gal 5:18 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    It was the carnal mind ( the natural man ) of the children of Israel which was hungering for the things of the world ( Egypt)
    Those lusts are in the heart. They are the desires of the heart.
    At the same time as the natural man ( carnal mind in man ) hungers for the things of the world, the Spirit in the same man hungers for the things of God and wants above all things to have the MEAT of the WORD of God not just milk or bread.. God in His mercy gives His people the MEAT they want from His WORD in spite of all their grumbling and complaining about the bread/ meat being not as fancy as they had in Egypt but at the same time He is as angry with their lusts as they are with Him for giving them boring meat or boring manna, the same thing over and over again. However, He does not give them their fancy egyptian food to feed their lusts but his anger and passion is the kind that is made of love and will destroy those lusts of the flesh rather than feed them while at the same time will feed the lusts of the Spirit and give life to the spirit while killing the flesh. God does both things at once with the same Word, same meat, The meat that God gives is always good for you.

    The fire of God can be perceived as the Love of God as well as the anger of God. The very same fire consumed the dross and purifies the gold at the same time.

    The lusts of the Spirit will destroy the lusts of the flesh.

    Sgs 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love [is] strong as death; jealousy [is] cruel as the grave: the coals thereof [are] coals of fire, [which hath a] most vehement flame.

    The Love of God will kill your fleshly carnal nature and you will be refined by fire. There is no other way to refine gold than put it through a fire.

    1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    All Gods children go through the wilderness trials at some stage of their walk with the Lord. Some have been there and done that and others have yet to go into the wilderness. They are at different stages of their walk but ultimately none escape it and none escape death to the flesh. How much gold is left depends on how much you love the Lord and how much you can manage to love your enemies by giving them what they need which is not always what they want. and is most times what they don't want since the flesh does not want what the Spirit wants at all. God always gives us what we need not what the flesh wants but what the Spirit wants. His will is always done, Not our will but His will. God never submits to the will of the flesh at any time. The one who gives you all the lusts of your carnal minded flesh is the devil.

    Please be patient. Please Don't close the tread. The fire gets hot but its worth it in the end if we can come to understand each other is it not?
    Gold needs to go through fire to be purified.
    Dross hates the fire since the fire destroys it but gold does not because gold knows what it takes to be shiny and clean.
    The shinier and cleaner we wish to be the hotter the fire we need to go through.

    Isa 43:1-2 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called [thee] by thy name; thou [art] mine. When thou passest through the waters, I [will be] with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
     
  13. Paul

    Paul Member

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    Then you need to learn to be kind to those you don't agree with.
     
  14. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    I am as kind to them as Jesus is kind to the Pharisees and as kind as God is to the carnal nature of man. I love them enough to speak the Truth regardless of how they react toward me.
    People who hate the Truth perceive it as a lie. You can find that principle in the bible.

    I love the Truth and I will put up with anyone who speaks the Truth to me regardless of how much it might hurt my flesh. I hope they would put up with me in the same way. I am not afraid of fire and I am not offended by anyone. I love the Lord with all my heart and mind and strength and nothing can hurt or offend me because I am in Him and He is in me. Peace reigns in my heart and as long as peace reigns in the hearts of those who claim to love God they can be sure they do love the Lord. If there is no peace in their hearts then they need to ask the Lord to create a clean heart in them and fill it with peace.

    Psalm 119: 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

    Worldly kindness is not always Godly kindness.
    Read Matthew 23 and see the Love of God in action toward religious hypocrites. Would you like to tell Jesus to be kinder to them or tone it down ?

    I say what the Father says. My words are not my own but His that sent me.
     
  15. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    1 John 1:8-9 (New King James Version)

    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
     
  16. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    Those scriptures are probably best placed on the thread about sin. You can join the discussion there so as not to sidetrack from this discussion on this thread.
     
  17. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    There was no sidetrack made here, and the verse fits perfectly thank you.
     
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  18. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    Ok, you claim to see this ... but then you ask all these questions about why did this or that happen back then.

    The patriarchs and prophets walked out in their lives principles which will affect others ... most notably those in the very last days.

    Q) Why did he send them quail if it was not good for them ?

    A) Because there was to be a flood of quail (false teachings) in the end times ... [nowhere near the complete answer, but as much as physical man can grasp]


    As I quoted above, the wilderness journey is a part of any believers life throughout all times ... but for US NOW ... we who are entering the days when we will partake of that good land ... this is a greater application of the spiritual principle.
     
  19. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    I'm not telling you that. God told you that...do ye not hear?



    It is not what I tell you but what He tells you.....Do ye not see?


    Numbers 11:33-34 And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. And He called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.

    Psalm 81:11-12 But My people would not hearken to My voice; and Israel would none of Me. So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.

    Psalm 106:14-15 But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert. And He gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.​



    No, I'm not a father. Yes, I have children. Please read the above verses and understand....God gave them of their lusts. He gave them, as He does us, the choice of the manna or the quail. Many dined on quail as they do today. They made the wrong choice.



    It isn't up to our Father to rid us of our lusts. What part do we have in this? He provides eternal life...what do we do? If He took all temptations away then why pass through this life? He could simply stamp us "approved" from the womb to the grave and it wouldn't matter what we did.



    You have every right to eat whatever you want....you only answer to God. I not only suggest, but definitely reply that the children of Israel should not have LUSTED after quail for He "gave them bread to the full."


    Sweet peas....I never liked them. Them along with succotash, brussels sprouts and squash. :)
     
  20. Paul

    Paul Member

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    sa, I am a father and yes, sometimes when my children asked and asked for something that could hurt them, they received it. Tell me you never stopped at MacDonald’s for burgers and fries, or said, “Yes, you can drive the car.” I even gave our son a .22 one year. And no! we do not hope they choke, or get killed, but we still give them many things they want that could hurt them.

    At the end of the first earth age, God could have destroyed 1/3 of His children that followed Satan but He loves them and wanted to give each child the chance to choose Him or Satan, so He destroyed that earth age and created this second earth age. All of His children that come through the flesh (being born for above, or born again) will make that choice for themselves.
     
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