MATTHEW 8:12 CAST OUT

[Doug]

You are confusing preaching to a culture with not preaching the cross.

So you are saying that Peter's gospel was only to Jewish culture and then say there is not one gospel to Jews and one to Gentiles

 

[Doug]

The gospel was the same- that the death and resurrection of Jesus had to be believed to be saved.

You said...........He didn't need to preach the cross

You said Peter didnt need to preach the cross and now you say he did

 

[Doug]

However, preaching to the Jews was a vastly different message than preaching to the Gentiles. The Jews knew the Scriptures and so Peter could argue from the OT to the Jews. Paul could not. The gentiles had little to no knowledge of the OT so He used a different methodology to preach to Gentiles. It was not two diffewrent messages. But two very different ways of presenting Jesus as Messiah.

Paul;s epistles are filled with OT references, and he says he preaches Christ from prophets.....................[Rom 16:25-26 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

You are right saying Peter preached Jesus as Messiah because that was his gospel, the Jews had to believe on his name
Paul preached Jesus was Christ the Son of God as well but also the cross

 

[Doug]

He didn't need to preach the cross. Most if not all of the audience after Pentecost knew of the crucifixion.

But he did preach the cross but it was to convict them for crucifying him

[Act 2:36 KJV] 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Peter told them who it was they crucified,,,,,Israel had to believe Jesus was Christ to be saved

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Which is the same gospel the other 11 preached after Pentecost.

Here above you said the 11 apostles preached the same gospel as Paul
Paul perched the cross
[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[Gal 6:14 KJV] 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
[Col 1:20 KJV] 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

Agreed 100% The gospel was the same, but how it was presented to differing ethnos was very different.

[Act 2:23 KJV] 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Here Peter is not preaching the cross but he is convicting Israel for his crucifixion

[Act 2:30 KJV] 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Peter was not preaching that Christ was raised for our justification but he was raised to sit on David's throne in the kingdom on earth

Pulling a verse out of context and saying "see he is not preaching the cross" is very childish. Peter got to it, may be not to your liking but He did. You are implying that all those Jews did not get saved because they never heard Jesus died and rose for theis.-- Foolishness.

[Act 10:43 KJV] 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Again faith in his name

Same thing Paul preached in Romans 10!

Paul and Peter acknowledged they had separate valid apostleship and preached different gospels in Galatians 2:7-8
Paul ministered to Peter's disciples but did not give them his gospel.........[Rom 15:20 KJV] 20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Your reading skills betray you.

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Same gospel, different way of presenting it. If not then Peter and the 11 were cursed for they preached another gospel. Galatians 1. YOu stumble and cannot see the forest for the trees.

 

[Doug]

Agreed 100% The gospel was the same, but how it was presented to differing ethnos was very different.

So the gospels cant be the same if they preach different gospels to accommodate other ethnic cultures
That is a way to explain way that they preached different gospels
If the words spoken are different that is because they are different
Why is it so threatening to acknowledge there is more than one gospel

 

[Doug]

Pulling a verse out of context and saying "see he is not preaching the cross" is very childish

It is not taking it out of context ......that is a way to diffuse having to acknowledge what is said

 

[Behold]

Paul perched the cross
[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[Gal 6:14 KJV] 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
[Col 1:20 KJV] 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

Exactly.

Paul said..........
-
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

New Living Translation
For I decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Jesus Christ, the one who was crucified.

English Standard Version
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Berean Standard Bible
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Berean Literal Bible
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him having been crucified.

King James Bible
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

New King James Version
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

New American Standard Bible
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

NASB 1995
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

NASB 1977
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Legacy Standard Bible
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Amplified Bible
for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].

 

[Doug]

You are implying that all those Jews did not get saved because they never heard Jesus died and rose for theis.-- Foolishness.

You are implying this not me
Anyone is saved only by believing what God says
Those Jews who believed what Peter was preaching, which was the word of God given to them, were saved

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Believing Jews will enter the kingdom on earth.......they are not of the body of Christ.......Jews who believe the gospel preached by Pau; are in the body of Christ

How about Jews who believe the gospel preached by Jesus? Are they in the body of Christ?

 

[Doug]

Same thing Paul preached in Romans 10!

[Rom 10:13 KJV] 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In Romans 9 thru 11 he is dealing with the believing remnant of Israel and the Gentiles who believed the preaching of Peter.................[Rom 11:5 KJV] 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 10:13 is talking about Israel and the day of the Lord come upon them...................[Joel 2:30-32 KJV] 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Paul did not preach remission of sins was only thru his name

 

[Doug]

Same gospel, different way of presenting it. If not then Peter and the 11 were cursed for they preached another gospel.

Galatians 2:7 says gospels OF not to as you are reading it......that means they are different gospels
Look at this verse as an example..........................[Mat 4:23 KJV] 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people......................when it says the gospel OF the kingdom it is descriptive

Peter was not accursed.....Paul recognized the validity of Peter's apostleship and the gospel he preached, and they agreed to separate Their apostleships

 

[Doug]

How about Jews who believe the gospel preached by Jesus? Are they in the body of Christ?

No they are in the church the believing remnant of Israel who will inherit the earthly kingdom

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[Rom 10:13 KJV] 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In Romans 9 thru 11 he is dealing with the believing remnant of Israel and the Gentiles who believed the preaching of Peter.................[Rom 11:5 KJV] 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 10:13 is talking about Israel and the day of the Lord come upon them...................[Joel 2:30-32 KJV] 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Paul did not preach remission of sins was only thru his name

You may not know who Hagee is but you hold to his heretical doctrine.

Yes Romans 9-11 is gods declaration He is not done with Israel. But 10:9-13 is for all. Please keep it in context.

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

YTOu are wading in very sloppy exegesis here.

Paul did not preach remission of sins was only thru his name

Corrre3sct- it is Faith in His name and what that stands for! Cultural context dear boy is impoortant for understanding. salvation is trust in Jesus and His death and resurrection. Calling on Jesus is more than just vocalizing His name.

No they are in the church the believing remnant of Israel who will inherit the earthly kingdom

Chruch Jews are part of the Body of Christ and have a different destiny than OT Jews and tribulation Jews who are saved.

 

[Doug]

Yes Romans 9-11 is gods declaration He is not done with Israel.

correct

 

[Doug]

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[Deu 30:11-14 KJV] 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. 12 It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Paul in the Roman verses is speaking about Israel not the body of Christ

 

[Doug]

But 10:9-13 is for all. Please keep it in context.

Romans 9-11 is about the believing remnant of Israel

[Rom 9:24-25 KJV] 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Paul is saying the remnant is made of both Jew and Gentile as seen in Acts 10:45-48

[Rom 9:27 KJV] 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Paul is talking further about the remnant of Israel

[Rom 11:5 KJV] 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The believing remnant composed of Jew and Gentile was present at this time along with Paul and the body of Christ

[Rom 11:17 KJV] 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The branches broken off was unbelieving Israel and the Gentiles in the remnant were gradted in......these are not Gentiles in the body of Christ

[Rom 11:21-22 KJV] 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If the Gentiles in the remnant fall they will likewise be broken off.....If you believe you are being spoken of in Romans 9-11 then you have to apply this warning as well

[Rom 11:26-27 KJV] 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Its about the salvation of Israel

If Hagee teaches all of this then he is right

 

[Doug]

Chruch Jews are part of the Body of Christ and have a different destiny than OT Jews and tribulation Jews who are saved.

Correct