MAY DAY - MAY DAY - MAY DAY !

[whirlwind]

After reading some of the threads about the last days, the rapture, etc. I wanted to add....although I don't believe in a rapture I do feel like we are very near experiencing the time of the great tribulation. Something is definitely in the air and many of us are experiencing anticipation, expectancy....sort of like Christmas and a Hurricane...all rolled into one. Consequently, we are preparing spiritually and literally.

After keeping two of my teenaged grandsons this weekend I realized...I need a bigger boat (you Jaws fans will understand that one ). Actually, the boat is big enough but after seeing how they devour food...I need to add to my supplies.

Is this feeling some are experiencing because the last days are imminent or because we're seeing so much happening in the world that it makes us feel that way? I don't know. But, what I do know is....The month of May keeps popping up..over and over. Below are some snippets from an article I saw today:

Reuters:

Geithner warns U.S. to hit debt ceiling by May 16​

By Rachelle Younglai
WASHINGTON | Mon Apr 4, 2011 6:17pm EDT


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States will hit the legal limit on its ability to borrow no later than May 16, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said on Monday, ramping up pressure on Congress to act to avoid a debt default.


"Default by the United States is unthinkable."


Both Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke have said a failure to raise the ceiling could have "catastrophic consequences."They have also asked Treasury whether financial assets such as the country's gold reserves or the government's portfolio of student loans could be sold to avoid raising the debt ceiling.
Treasury has rejected the proposals as unworkable.

From the Glenn Beck program, there was mention of a group, Freedom Flotilla, sailing to "dismantle" Israel on May 15. Bill Ayers and friends from Code Pink are all aboard. Benjamin Netanyahu said they were "Islamic extremist and others," the others being Ayers and his Marxist friends. Ayres calls it the "Free Gaza Movement." In order to free Gaza they want to "dismantle" Israel.

To happen at the same time there was a Face Book page calling for folks to march into Israel mid May. The page had over 37,000 views before being taken down but...another is up.

Add to that the Steven Lerner (SEIU thug) video Beck broadcast last week in which Lerner seems to be planning to sabotage (his own words) J.P.Morgan Chase leading to a Wall Street catastrophe....in May!

I will add to the above that a few months ago I wrote a thread and it too points to [May 14 & 21] being a vital marker. I have no doubt about the days for...it is written but...will it be this year?

Genesis 7:4,10-11 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. (10-11) And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.​

The 2nd month, 17th day is...Lyar 17, or our May 21. If it is this year then on May 14, as He warned Noah I believe we too will be given warning that in one week the tribulation begins.


So, with all that is happening, with all that is brewing to happen...what will May bring?



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[rockytopva]

I tell my family that's retired to enjoy their retirement... I doubt we younger generations will be as fortunate.

 

[veteran]

April-May is a time to watch, as it's about spring time. Our Lord Jesus gave a symbolic contrast between spring and summer involving the parable of the fig tree.

 

[whirlwind]

April-May is a time to watch, as it's about spring time. Our Lord Jesus gave a symbolic contrast between spring and summer involving the parable of the fig tree.

Indeed! Not only the fig tree but the time of the locusts. Will it be this spring? Things certainly are looking like it, at least to those with eyes to see. :unsure:

I watched a rerun last night of Ken Burns The Civil War. A terrific program. In it, toward the end of the war, someone wrote a letter describing living in a southern city....she wrote "a stick of wood is $10.00 and a sack of four is $25.00." As history repeats itself...will we be experiencing this?

I work for a small company that runs five diesel trucks on daily routes. The gas bill was $2,500.00 MORE THAN LAST MONTH. That is very, very difficult for small businesses! Will some workers be laid off? Then I see our glorious leader snickering in a speech last night telling us to trade in our gas guzzlers. <_<

Yesterday, at the station I use, regular was $3.55. This morning...$3.62. OVERNIGHT!


I hope folks wake up soon. We are in for some very, very difficult times and NO ONE is going to be flown away!



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[martinlawrencescott]

I hope folks wake up soon. We are in for some very, very difficult times and NO ONE is going to be flown away!

I guess I have a lightly studied pretribulation view. I should study that more. Even if we weren't taken up before the tribulation, it would just mean more suffering for Christ, so it is kind of win win for Christians no matter what view. The future is win win for those in Christ no matter what happens. I hope the state of the Body of Christ, when he comes for us, we will be what he desired, that bride he always hoped for. The Body of Christ as of now is out of touch with itself, in division.

 

[Duckybill]

....although I don't believe in a rapture

I keep reading that in this forum, but nobody has responded to my question, what do you call this? :

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[whirlwind]

I keep reading that in this forum, but nobody has responded to my question, what do you call this? :

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

I call that a verse used by rapturist to mislead God's children.

"The air" is in spirit...not up in the atmosphere. We are changed into our spirit bodies at the seventh trump. That happens AFTER the tribulation.



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[Duckybill]

I call that a verse used by rapturist to mislead God's children.

Paul was misleading us?

"The air" is in spirit...not up in the atmosphere. We are changed into our spirit bodies at the seventh trump. That happens AFTER the tribulation.

You are clearly changing what Paul said. Wouldn't it be easier to just say you don't believe what Paul said?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[veteran]

Paul was misleading us?

You are clearly changing what Paul said. Wouldn't it be easier to just say you don't believe what Paul said?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Paul wasn't doing the misleading. It's those who interpret his preaching to infer Christ's second coming happens prior to the great tribulation that are doing the misleading. Arguments over the term 'rapture' or 'air', etc., are meaningless when the real matter is about a doctrine that started in 1830's Britain that goes against the true timing of Christ's return after the tribulation per God's Word.

 

[Duckybill]

Paul wasn't doing the misleading. It's those who interpret his preaching to infer Christ's second coming happens prior to the great tribulation that are doing the misleading. Arguments over the term 'rapture' or 'air', etc., are meaningless when the real matter is about a doctrine that started in 1830's Britain that goes against the true timing of Christ's return after the tribulation per God's Word.

Understood. I am simply saying that to do away with Paul's statement is wrong, simply because someone distorts it. Pretty much all of God's Word gets distorted by some along the way.

 

[veteran]

Understood. I am simply saying that to do away with Paul's statement is wrong, simply because someone distorts it. Pretty much all of God's Word gets distorted by some along the way.

But that's just it, whirlwind wasn't really distorting the idea Paul was teaching in 1 Thess.4:16-17. Allow me to explain.

Not every word used in God's Word is about that word's normal definition. For example, when our Lord Jesus was teaching about being born again of the Spirit in John 3, He used the idea of 'wind' as an analogy for the Spirit. We well know He did not mean that 'wind' is Spirit. He was only comparing being born of the Spirit like how wind on earth manifests.

Rev.16 shows the last Vial is poured out into the "air", and then a great voice from Heaven says, "It is done." So what does that mean, with that 7th Vial being poured out in the "air"? Using the normal definition for 'air' would suggest what? The sky and nuclear holocaust? That's what many think. But that's not the meaning intended per God's Word. The 7th Vial poured out in the "air" is being used as an analogy for some greater event...


Isa 25:6-9
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
(KJV)

That witness in Isaiah 25 is one of the places Apostle Paul was teaching from about the resurrection at Christ's coming. Paul gave a direct parallel to that in 1 Corinthians 15.

It's about a spiritual veil being removed, a veil of covering over this present world that prevents us from seeing the Heavenly realm. It's when the Heavenly dimension is going to be revealed to all peoples. That's what Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.4:16-17 also with the trump of God that starts it.

It's about the change "at a twinkling of an eye" to our resurrected or "spiritual body" that Paul taught. In Gen.2:7 God said He breathed into man "the breath of life", and Adam became a living soul. That "breath of life" from God suggest much more than just oxygen. It's about 'spirit', the 'wind' concept our Lord Jesus hinted at. This is why in 2 Cor.12 with Paul used the Greek 'harpazo' ("caught up") for one who had an experience in the Heavenly realm, being caught up to Paradise, to the third Heaven. We know that person who experienced that did not die, but lived to be able to tell about it.

And again, Greek 'harpazo' ("caught up") is used after Philip had finished witnessing The Gospel to the Ethiopian enuch, with Philip being "caught away" and found later in another city just north of there (Acts 8:39).

If you understand that's involving different dimensions, then understanding that word 'harpazo' ("caught up" or "caught away" in the KJV) becomes easier. This material earthly dimension is limited by space and time, the Heavenly dimension is not limited by the same set of rules.

So in a more full understanding of the various Bible witnesses of the time of our gathering to Christ should point to Paul's use of "air" in 1 Thess.4:17 as an analogy for being changed to our spiritual bodies, i.e., the breath of life body of our spirit which God gave us to go along with our flesh bodies.

 

[Duckybill]

But that's just it, whirlwind wasn't really distorting the idea Paul was teaching in 1 Thess.4:16-17. Allow me to explain.

Not every word used in God's Word is about that word's normal definition. For example, when our Lord Jesus was teaching about being born again of the Spirit in John 3, He used the idea of 'wind' as an analogy for the Spirit. We well know He did not mean that 'wind' is Spirit. He was only comparing being born of the Spirit like how wind on earth manifests.

Rev.16 shows the last Vial is poured out into the "air", and then a great voice from Heaven says, "It is done." So what does that mean, with that 7th Vial being poured out in the "air"? Using the normal definition for 'air' would suggest what? The sky and nuclear holocaust? That's what many think. But that's not the meaning intended per God's Word. The 7th Vial poured out in the "air" is being used as an analogy for some greater event...


Isa 25:6-9
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
(KJV)

That witness in Isaiah 25 is one of the places Apostle Paul was teaching from about the resurrection at Christ's coming. Paul gave a direct parallel to that in 1 Corinthians 15.

It's about a spiritual veil being removed, a veil of covering over this present world that prevents us from seeing the Heavenly realm. It's when the Heavenly dimension is going to be revealed to all peoples. That's what Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.4:16-17 also with the trump of God that starts it.

It's about the change "at a twinkling of an eye" to our resurrected or "spiritual body" that Paul taught. In Gen.2:7 God said He breathed into man "the breath of life", and Adam became a living soul. That "breath of life" from God suggest much more than just oxygen. It's about 'spirit', the 'wind' concept our Lord Jesus hinted at. This is why in 2 Cor.12 with Paul used the Greek 'harpazo' ("caught up") for one who had an experience in the Heavenly realm, being caught up to Paradise, to the third Heaven. We know that person who experienced that did not die, but lived to be able to tell about it.

And again, Greek 'harpazo' ("caught up") is used after Philip had finished witnessing The Gospel to the Ethiopian enuch, with Philip being "caught away" and found later in another city just north of there (Acts 8:39).

If you understand that's involving different dimensions, then understanding that word 'harpazo' ("caught up" or "caught away" in the KJV) becomes easier. This material earthly dimension is limited by space and time, the Heavenly dimension is not limited by the same set of rules.

So in a more full understanding of the various Bible witnesses of the time of our gathering to Christ should point to Paul's use of "air" in 1 Thess.4:17 as an analogy for being changed to our spiritual bodies, i.e., the breath of life body of our spirit which God gave us to go along with our flesh bodies.

So then, do you believe that this is a literal future event?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

If you don't, then it won't be, for you.

 

[veteran]

So then, do you believe that this is a literal future event?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

If you don't, then it won't be, for you.

That's just it. That event of the change to the spiritual body is going to happen to EVERYONE still alive on earth when our Lord returns. But not everyone will be gathered to Christ. Our Lord Jesus foretold us about this in John 5 when He taught about 2 different resurrections at the same time. One is for the righteous, and the other for the wicked.

But what the Pre-trib school has tried to do is try and create a special rapture for themselves prior to the start of the tribulation while everyone else on earth stays unchanged. What will happen per God's Word is Christ's coming and the veil is removed off all, and then Christ will send His angels to do a great separating of His sheep from the goats...


Christ's coming and the change with two types of resurrection:

Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:


Separation between His saints and the wicked:

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.


Then Christ regins on Mount Zion with His elect:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(KJV)


That's a lot different story than what the Pre-trib school is teaching. Instead they're teaching that Christ is coming in secret to gather His saints while everyone else is left-behind on earth. They don't even try to define just 'where' Christ will gather them to, because it would conflict with their false doctrine, since God's Word shows Christ gathering His elect to Jerusalem on earth where Zech.14 and Acts 1 says He returns.

 

[Duckybill]

That's just it. That event of the change to the spiritual body is going to happen to EVERYONE still alive on earth when our Lord returns.

Everyone? Scripture please.

But not everyone will be gathered to Christ. Our Lord Jesus foretold us about this in John 5 when He taught about 2 different resurrections at the same time. One is for the righteous, and the other for the wicked.

But what the Pre-trib school has tried to do is try and create a special rapture for themselves prior to the start of the tribulation while everyone else on earth stays unchanged. What will happen per God's Word is Christ's coming and the veil is removed off all, and then Christ will send His angels to do a great separating of His sheep from the goats...

Christ's coming and the change with two types of resurrection:

Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:


Separation between His saints and the wicked:

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.


Then Christ regins on Mount Zion with His elect:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(KJV)

That's a lot different story than what the Pre-trib school is teaching. Instead they're teaching that Christ is coming in secret to gather His saints while everyone else is left-behind on earth. They don't even try to define just 'where' Christ will gather them to, because it would conflict with their false doctrine, since God's Word shows Christ gathering His elect to Jerusalem on earth where Zech.14 and Acts 1 says He returns.

Actually I think there are simply a lot of opinions on this subject that differ here and there. I really don't see it one way or the other. I just want to be ready. Does it really matter which way it will be?

 

[veteran]

Everyone? Scripture please.

Actually I think there are simply a lot of opinions on this subject that differ here and there. I really don't see it one way or the other. I just want to be ready. Does it really matter which way it will be?

I already gave you Scripture about that event when everyone on earth is changed at Christ's coming. That's what Isaiah 25 is showing with the vail cast over all nations being removed. I also pointed to John 5 about the "resurrection of life" and the "resurrection of damnation" which both occur at the sounding of His voice (which is a parallel to 1 Thess.4:16-17). And I pointed you to 1 Corinthians 15 where Apostle Paul was teaching from Isaiah 25 about death being swallowed up in victory.

What your response shows is your not really familiar with those Scriptures, but have been listening to men instead. Easy way to correct that by getting into God's Word for yourself, asking for His help.

You ask does it really matter how it will be? Well, will it matter whether or not we've listened to God in His Word or to men's doctrines? Yeah, you bet it matters.

The Pre-trib idea is a setup. It's designed to lead the deceived of God's people to bow to the antichrist who will come to sit in Christ's place and proclaim himself as God in His place. It's a pact with Death. That's who those on the Pre-trib doctrine are being prepared to rapture to. They're told it will be to our Lord Jesus but our Lord Jesus doesn't return until after the tribulation as written.

It's even written in God's Word that He will tear those deceived of God's people out of the hands of those false prophets who teach them to fly to save their souls. Do you know where that's written in God's Word? Yes, it matters.

 

[Duckybill]

What your response shows is your not really familiar with those Scriptures, but have been listening to men instead. Easy way to correct that by getting into God's Word for yourself, asking for His help.

I'm quite familiar with most of them. I have found that many use them to prove what they believe not what they actually mean.

You ask does it really matter how it will be? Well, will it matter whether or not we've listened to God in His Word or to men's doctrines? Yeah, you bet it matters.

Agreed

The Pre-trib idea is a setup. It's designed to lead the deceived of God's people to bow to the antichrist who will come to sit in Christ's place and proclaim himself as God in His place. It's a pact with Death. That's who those on the Pre-trib doctrine are being prepared to rapture to. They're told it will be to our Lord Jesus but our Lord Jesus doesn't return until after the tribulation as written.

I'm ready either way.

It's even written in God's Word that He will tear those deceived of God's people out of the hands of those false prophets who teach them to fly to save their souls. Do you know where that's written in God's Word? Yes, it matters.

So then, all's well right?

 

[veteran]

So then, all's well right?

Depends. Are you prepared to be delivered up by even a member of your own family to give a Testimony for Christ? Do you understand why and how they may be deceived into doing that during the tribulation? Do you know what Christ would have us do as a result of that delivering up?

 

[Duckybill]

Depends. Are you prepared to be delivered up by even a member of your own family to give a Testimony for Christ?

Already have been. I'm ready.

Do you understand why and how they may be deceived into doing that during the tribulation? Do you know what Christ would have us do as a result of that delivering up?

Sure, but please elaborate.

 

[veteran]

Already have been. I'm ready.

Sure, but please elaborate.

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(KJV)

Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
(KJV)


Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(KJV)

 

[[email protected]]

Is this feeling some are experiencing because the last days are imminent or because we're seeing so much happening in the world that it makes us feel that way? I don't know. But, what I do know is....The month of May keeps popping up..over and over.

In late spring of the year 2001 there were a lot of cautions flying around about Osama bin Laden. Prior to that time he had been causing mischief and voicing his disdain of America quite a lot. In June there was growing concern that something might happen soon. The general fear was that the national celebration of July 4th would be a target date.

I was concerned enough to insist to all the members of my family to stay away from all large cities on the 4th of July. They thought I was off my nut, but in respect to me (and to keep the old man quiet) they acquiesced to my wishes. Well, you all know that the 4th came and went without incident. In fact, weeks came and went without incident and the voices of caution gradually subsided. Then the eleventh of September arrived.

What will happen in May of 2011? I cannot say with any certainty, but there does seem to be a storm on the horizon. For what it's worth here is a personal testimony.

My family and I are planning a week long vacation during the first week of May. My wife usually gets very hyper about such things and I generally go along with the plan without too much anticipation of fun. I usually get caught up in the incidentals and logistics.

When my wife and daughter came up with the idea a few months ago I began to get the feeling that I ought to look forward to it and to savor every moment of it because we might not get to enjoy such a time ever again. There is the vague sense that the possibility of such a 'vacation' would not happen ever again. It is a 'one last fling' kind of feeling.

I can't shake it and I'm still debating with myself whether I should say anything to my family about my misgivings.

I absolutely do NOT believe that the rapture will occur on May 11th and argue vehemently against it.......but there is a cloud on the horizon and I can't deny that.