May I suggest this for securing your eternal life?

[williemac]

OSAS/ES/UESIC is just our way of describing the assurances and guarantees you refer to.

Please tell me, because I respect your posts: What is it specifically that you find so evil about the very idea of ES? WHY is it so loathesome and dangerous?

I do not feel anything of the sort. I am just honest enough to admit that there is an 'if' present in the bible concerning our eternal life. "If" we continue in the faith. And subjects like this are an interest to me because they are a threat to faith, which I am dedicated to uphold and contend for. Paul scorned the Galatians for adding the law to their faith for justification. He said they had fallen from grace.

The qualification for life is not faith btw, it is humility. God gives grace to the humble. The most harmful temptation man faces after having been given life is not...I repeat, NOT.. sin. It is self righteousness. Doctrines are constantly bombarding the church that are attempting to put her back into earning the life they had been freely given. One way..to not sin. For the believer, that is the wrong reason we are to walk in righteousness. We already have life. We are simply called to express it. Threats and warnings come from the law. We are not under law but under grace.

The enemy is at work to tempt man to do what his own offense is, and that is to take the place of God. One way this happens is when a person is trying to accomplish only what God has the power and ability to accomplish. He is the giver of life. We are the receivers. He alone can produce life and righteousness. We are reduced to receiving these freely without merit. This is what faith is. It is the method by which we receive a freely given gift. Faith is the fruit of humility. 1John 5:4 "...and this is the victory that overcomes the world-our faith". The passage in Luke 18:10-14, from Jesus' own words, should be a warning to those who insist that warnings exist.

Thanks for your participation here. It is most appreciated by yours truly. Blessings, Howie

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Every so often I encounter people on Christian forums whose logic
processes are a bit out of whack. It is humanly impossible to discuss the
gospel with people who have that handicap; but it's not totally impossible.

Jesus once encountered a lunatic whose mind was being controlled by a
large number of evil spirits. Nobody could reason with that poor man; in
point of fact, nobody could even get near him. But after once Jesus liberated
his mind from the spirits; he was perfectly lucid.

Well; I sincerely wish I had the authority to liberate the minds of some of
the loonies I encounter on the internet. Life on forums would so much more
fun and profitable.

Of course not every loony's mind is under the influence of evil spirits. Some
are under the influence of alcohol, prescription drugs, and illegal substances.
Either way; their condition is preventing them from seeing the way around
hell and eternal suffering.

BTW: The book of Revelation describes the last days as a time of what some
Bibles label sorcery and/or magic arts. Well, the Greek word is the word from
which English gets it word "pharmacist". In other words; the last days are
characterized as a drug culture. Good luck discussing the gospel with those
people.

Buen Camino
/

 

[musterion]

I do not feel anything of the sort. I am just honest enough to admit that there is an 'if' present in the bible concerning our eternal life. "If" we continue in the faith. And subjects like this are an interest to me because they are a threat to faith, which I am dedicated to uphold and contend for. Paul scorned the Galatians for adding the law to their faith for justification. He said they had fallen from grace.

The qualification for life is not faith btw, it is humility. God gives grace to the humble. The most harmful temptation man faces after having been given life is not...I repeat, NOT.. sin. It is self righteousness. Doctrines are constantly bombarding the church that are attempting to put her back into earning the life they had been freely given. One way..to not sin. For the believer, that is the wrong reason we are to walk in righteousness. We already have life. We are simply called to express it. Threats and warnings come from the law. We are not under law but under grace.

The enemy is at work to tempt man to do what his own offense is, and that is to take the place of God. One way this happens is when a person is trying to accomplish only what God has the power and ability to accomplish. He is the giver of life. We are the receivers. He alone can produce life and righteousness. We are reduced to receiving these freely without merit. This is what faith is. It is the method by which we receive a freely given gift. Faith is the fruit of humility. 1John 5:4 "...and this is the victory that overcomes the world-our faith". The passage in Luke 18:10-14, from Jesus' own words, should be a warning to those who insist that warnings exist.

Thanks for your participation here. It is most appreciated by yours truly. Blessings, Howie

Forgive my misreading you, then. Every (okay, almost every) person I've ever encountered who opposes the thought of the believer's eternal security in Christ has been vehement in that position and very quick to judge those who do believe it as unsaved or secretly indulging in every sin. Just take a look at Dan Corner's book on Amazon. It's truly venomnous.

I appreciate and enjoy your participation here as well. One small point:

The qualification for life is not faith btw, but humility

Without faith it is impossible to please God. One can be (humanly) very humble yet very unsaved. Ghandi, Teresa, various popes and monks throughout history come to mind - the list is endless - but their humility didn't save them.

The humility that God honors stems from our seeing ourselves as the lost sinners we are before Him. After salvation, it comes as a facet of the fruit of the Spirit. But it does not save us nor keep us saved. That's Christ's job.

.
Every so often I encounter people on Christian forums whose logic
processes are a bit out of whack. It is humanly impossible to discuss the
gospel with people who have that handicap; but it's not totally impossible.

Jesus once encountered a lunatic whose mind was being controlled by a
large number of evil spirits. Nobody could reason with that poor man; in
point of fact, nobody could even get near him. But after once Jesus liberated
his mind from the spirits; he was perfectly lucid.

Well; I sincerely wish I had the authority to liberate the minds of some of
the loonies I encounter on the internet. Life on forums would so much more
fun and profitable.

Of course not every loony's mind is under the influence of evil spirits. Some
are under the influence of alcohol, prescription drugs, and illegal substances.
Either way; their condition is preventing them from seeing the way around
hell and eternal suffering.

BTW: The book of Revelation describes the last days as a time of what some
Bibles label sorcery and/or magic arts. Well, the Greek word is the word from
which English gets it word "pharmacist". In other words; the last days are
characterized as a drug culture. Good luck discussing the gospel with those
people.

Buen Camino
/

Who here are you saying uses drugs?

 

[Webers_Home]

Who here are you saying uses drugs?

I myself use three prescription drugs: one for thyroid, one for acid reflux,
and one for blood pressure. So far I haven't needed any psychotropic
medications. (knock on wood)

I don't use illegal substances; in point of fact, I've never even experimented
with one; not even weed. I'll tell you who I really pity: meth heads. Heavy
users sometimes get to the point where they can't carry on a sensible
conversation, and their perception of reality becomes confusing. Tragic.

Buen Camino
/

 

[musterion]

Was referring to illegal/illicit drugs and I agree with what pharmakeia implies.

When I was lost, I did acid twice. I can assure anyone who doubts that there IS a spiritual element to most if not all such drugs. It's what Jim Morrison referred to with what I read was supposed to be the band's original name: The Doors of Perception. Whether or not that story is true, drugs do open "doors" into the mind and soul that, short of Christ's blood, remain open and can't be shut. And where a door is opened, things may come and go as they please. Even as an unbeliever with no real knowledge of or desire for the things of God, I still remember how I felt subtly different afterward. At the time, I never could put my finger on it. It was a feeling that faded over time but never fully went away - until I was saved.

If I had to put a name on that feeling now, the best I can come up with is, I felt contaminated, and not merely physically. Deeper than that, much deeper. But not anymore!

Praise God for His exceeding grace, even to a sinner like I was.

 

[williemac]

The Greek pharmakea, or pharmakeon (not sure which) is the root word for sorcery, as shared in #62 . This involves mental influence or control. Drugs can certainly be used in this case. But only if they are mind altering drugs. Sorcery on the other hand can certainly be done without the use of drugs. And I would bet that the Revelation reference was not so much aimed at merely the drug culture.

When I was involved in that culture years ago, I was searching for fulfillment. It happens that the day I was filled with the Holy Spirit, I felt high, but not out of control and not in any dirty kind of way that drugs carried with them. In fact, a friend, four days later asked me what I was high on (not knowing that I was going to church at the time). To this day I can feel the Holy Spirit within me. I call it the joy of the Lord.

When people do drugs or drink, they are merely looking to get some satisfaction or fulfillment. They are trying to attain that which we are missing at birth...born without God. When Paul said do not get drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit, I feel it is a mistake that some think he was speaking of control. He was speaking of life (fulfillment). The drug culture is part of the harvest. They are searching. We have the answer. Luck has nothing to do with it (re:#62). The gospel is the power of God to salvation. I didn't reject it. You just never know who will respond. Cheers, Howie

And BTW, in response to the word "loonie" there is a lot of mental illness out there that is what can be called a medical issue. I think that kind of word carries judgment with it. We don't use words like that with people who have cancer or diabetes (etc.), do we? Or do we judge the sick for just being sick?

 

[Webers_Home]

in response to the word "loonie" there is a lot of mental illness out there
that is what can be called a medical issue. I think that kind of word carries
judgment with it. We don't use words like that with people who have cancer
or diabetes (etc.), do we? Or do we judge the sick for just being sick?

(sigh) Just what every forum needs: a culture cop. Well; let me tell you
something: a rose by any other name is still a rose; viz: loonies are what they
are. You call them what you want, and I will call them what I want. Let's not
be bigots and start lecturing people when their choice of words doesn't meet
our own personal standards of speech.

Buen Camino
/

 

[horsecamp]

If any man ascribes anything of salvation, even the very least thing, to the free will of man,
he knows nothing of grace, and he has not learned Jesus Christ rightly. Martin Luther




Romans 11:4
New International Version (NIV)


4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”





Acts 11:18
New International Version (NIV)


18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”











Romans 8:29-33
New International Version (NIV)


29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

More Than Conquerors
31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

 

[Rach1370]

(sigh) Just what every forum needs: a culture cop. Well; let me tell you
something: a rose by any other name is still a rose; viz: loonies are what they
are. You call them what you want, and I will call them what I want. Let's not
be bigots and start lecturing people when their choice of words doesn't meet
our own personal standards of speech.

Buen Camino
/

But hang on...didn't you just say in your post above that those who do not believe the same as you, or can be talked into believing what you do, must either be possessed, or on recreational drugs, or a 'loonie'?
Isn't that a little "double standardish"....?

 

[musterion]

Saw this just this morning.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/30/blood-covered-teen-attacks-paramedics-responding-to-mill-valley-lsd-house-party/

If any man ascribes anything of salvation, even the very least thing, to the free will of man,
he knows nothing of grace, and he has not learned Jesus Christ rightly. Martin Luther

Can unbelief and damnation be ascribed to the free will of man?

 

[justaname]

If free will is your king and not God... then freely save yourself.

I have written extensively here on the subject of free will, maybe some day I might get around to adding to it. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17398-god-over-free-will-take-2/

I also started a thread on OSAS.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18216-the-doctrine-of-osas/


Adding to this topic I have been looking into 1 John lately.

I find this bit interesting.

1 John 3:9
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Clearly this must speak of the BAC.

Extending further down the epistle there is this verse.
1 John 3:23
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


Combine this with Romans 10:10
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The gospel seems quite clear. No muddy vision here. Finally we have this for the up and coming rebuttals.

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

The BAC will never lose their salvation, because His seed is in them. John puts no unless in this bold statement. If you are born of God, you will overcome the world. You need not fear...

1 John 4:16-18
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

Friends it is simple. Live the Shema, abide in the faith of the resurrected Christ.

 

[Webers_Home]

Can unbelief and damnation be ascribed to the free will of man?

Unbelief falls into two categories.

For example; unbelief is depicted as intentional at Rom 1:18-20 due to
refusal to accept intelligent design and the existence of a supreme being;
while at Mark 16:15-16 unbelief is depicted as both intentional and
unintentional; in other words: somebody can't be expected to believe the
story of Christ if they've never heard it.

It's interesting that the everlasting gospel, scheduled to be heralded by an
angel at Rev 14:6-7, omits the story of Christ and says only that (1) there's
a supreme being, (2) there's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon,
and (3) that the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the
product of intelligent design.

According to Rom 1:18-20 and Rom 10:18, there's no excuse for disbelieving
the everlasting gospel.

BTW: it's ironic that many of North America's Indian tribes, whom European
missionaries sought to convert to Christianity, were already believing in the
existence of a creator before the Europeans arrived. You know why? Well;
that's very easy. North America's Natives were far more in tune with nature
than the very Europeans who sought to convert them. If you ask me; the
Natives should have been sending missionaries over to Europe rather than
the other way around. Europeans got their belief in a creator from a book;
while America's Natives got their belief in a creator from the very source that
the creator provided for all peoples, both American and European: from His
handiwork.

Buen Camino
/

 

[John Zain]

Saw this just this morning.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/30/blood-covered-teen-attacks-paramedics-responding-to-mill-valley-lsd-house-party/

Speaking of San Francisco, you can expect a huge earthquake there on Thursday morning!
With a resulting tsnuami affecting the whole west coast.

 

[musterion]

Speaking of San Francisco, you can expect a huge earthquake there on Thursday morning!
With a resulting tsnuami affecting the whole west coast.

What's special about Thursday?

BTW: it's ironic that many of North America's Indian tribes, whom European
missionaries sought to convert to Christianity, were already believing in the
existence of a creator before the Europeans arrived. You know why? Well;
that's very easy. North America's Natives were far more in tune with nature
than the very Europeans who sought to convert them. If you ask me; the
Natives should have been sending missionaries over to Europe rather than
the other way around. Europeans got their belief in a creator from a book;
while America's Natives got their belief in a creator from the very source that
the creator provided for all peoples, both American and European: from His
handiwork.

Buen Camino
/

The indians were pagans, most of whom routinely slaughtered and enslaved each other long before the white man came over. At the same time, most professing Euro-Christians were equally pagan and still are. Only pointing this out in case someone misreads you as saying the indian's pagan spirituality was somehow innately superior to or purer than the Scriptures the Europeans came to have, however poorly they almost invariably lived up to it.

Mere belief in the quite obvious existence of a creator is now not enough to save anyone. Just pointing that out in case anyone else misreads you as saying intelligent design is a form of the Gospel (it isn't but I've heard that claimed).

 

[Webers_Home]

the indian's pagan spirituality was somehow innately superior to or purer
than

Those "pagans" as you call them were far spiritually superior than even the
brightest, the best, and the most sophisticated modern-day Atheist you
might care to name.

BTW: before you go saying anymore about North America's Native
Americans; I suggest you get yourself a copy of the book below and read it
cover to cover. Then maybe you'll have better luck at passing yourself off as
someone who knows what they're talking about.

Exiled In The Land Of The Free
by John Mohawk; et al.
ISBN: 978-0-940666-50-4

Mere belief in the quite obvious existence of a creator is now not enough
to save anyone.

Tell that to the angel of Rev 14:6-7 if perchance he'll be fool enough to
believe you.

Just pointing that out in case anyone else misreads you as saying
intelligent design is a form of the Gospel (it isn't but I've heard that
claimed).

There are at least three gospels mentioned in the New Testament; and quite
possibly a fourth. There's the gospel of the kingdom, the gospel of Christ,
and the everlasting gospel.

If intelligent design were not part of the gospel of Christ (not to mention the
everlasting gospel) then Paul would not have included it in his gospel as per
the epistle of Romans. In point of fact, he says that the wrath of God is
being revealed against people who disbelieve in intelligent design. So if you
don't mind, I will go on being misled by Paul and by the angel seeing as how
I'm pretty confident they know what they're talking about and you don't.

Buen Camino
/

 

[justaname]

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


There is only one gospel that brings salvation. Proclaim differently and you are anti-Christ.

 

[williemac]

(sigh) Just what every forum needs: a culture cop. Well; let me tell you
something: a rose by any other name is still a rose; viz: loonies are what they
are. You call them what you want, and I will call them what I want. Let's not
be bigots and start lecturing people when their choice of words doesn't meet
our own personal standards of speech.

Buen Camino
/

Bigot? Speak for yourself. It is not a bigot who lectures a bigot. Do you call black people niggers as well? I hope not. Derogatory nick names can say a lot about the one using them. Remember who Jesus befriended. I, myself have a mentally ill friend. I have known others as well. They are hard to listen to at times. But they need the same respect and love that anyone else does, as those loved by our Lord. However, If you happen feel the same way, and actually love and respect them the same as anyone else, then call them whatever you want and I will not take it the wrong way again, but will take it to be endearing. I didn't intend on making this a diversion to the topic.

Speaking of San Francisco, you can expect a huge earthquake there on Thursday morning!
With a resulting tsnuami affecting the whole west coast.

Is this a prophecy?

 

[musterion]

Those "pagans" as you call them were far spiritually superior than even the
brightest, the best, and the most sophisticated modern-day Atheist you
might care to name.

I said nothing about athesits. If you must use a straw man to make your point, you don't have one.

There are at least three gospels mentioned in the New Testament; and quite
possibly a fourth. There's the gospel of ing the kingdom, the gospel of Christ,
and the everlasting gospel.

There are two distinct Gospels mentioned in the book of Galatians alone. One of those is the only one by which men today may be saved.

If intelligent design were not part of the gospel of Christ (not to mention the
everlasting gospel) then Paul would not have included it in his gospel as per
the epistle of Romans.

That knowledge alone cannot save anyone today. That was my only point; please don't read more into it than I intended without checking with me first.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
I take it as a personal insult when people denigrate North America's Native
peoples because they constitute the bulk of my extended family. My eldest
nephew is Seneca, two younger nephews are Kumeyaay, and my three
eldest nieces are Navajo.

Kevin Costner's character in Dances With Wolves made friends with Natives;
but none of them were his blood. It's very different when you're related.
Costner's character was bonded to his Native friends; but the bonds of
friendship are not the same as the bonds of blood because along with those
kinds of bonds comes paternal feelings; and those sometimes bring tears of
joy to my eyes whenever I am thinking of my nieces and nephews. Other
than my wife and son; no other human beings alive on this planet mean as
much to me as my Native relatives. When you spit on them; you spit on me.

Hold that thought while reading this next statement.

†. 1 John 3:1-2 . . How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that
we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! Dear friends:
now we are children of God.

Does God have paternal feelings for His kids? Well; I should think that
someone labeled in the Bible as "love" certainly has paternal feelings for His
own family. So then, how do you suppose it makes God feel when people
like evangelist-7 are doing their best to persuade God's children to lose
confidence in their Father's competence to see them through to safety?
You see; that's exactly what the anti-OSAS crowd is doing.

And it's not just the Father's reputation they're doing their utmost best to
ruin. When they insist it's possible for people to end up in hell who've
undergone the supernatural birth about Jesus spoke at John 3:3-8; what
they are really doing is casting a vote of no-confidence in Christ's
competence as the shepherd of his Father's sheep. I'm really going to enjoy
watching those people break out in a cold sweat when they stand before
God to answer for their conduct.

Buen Camino
/

 

[John Zain]

Is this a prophecy?

3 different people have had the same date in their dreams and visions
over a period of as long as 2 years!

So, why not avoid the Pacific coast on Thursday ... tomorrow.
I live 30 miles inland @ 1000 feet.