May I suggest this for securing your eternal life?

[musterion]

3 different people have had the same date in their dreams and visions
over a period of as long as 2 years!

So, why not avoid the Pacific coast on Thursday ... tomorrow.
I live 30 miles inland @ 1000 feet.

Assuming they said, "God told me...", if they turn out wrong will you denounce them as false prophets?

.
I take it as a personal insult when people denigrate North America's Native
peoples because they constitute the bulk of my extended family. My eldest
nephew is Seneca, two younger nephews are Kumeyaay, and my three
eldest nieces are Navajo.

Kevin Costner's character in Dances With Wolves made friends with Natives;
but none of them were his blood. It's very different when you're related.
Costner's character was bonded to his Native friends; but the bonds of
friendship are not the same as the bonds of blood because along with those
kinds of bonds comes paternal feelings; and those sometimes bring tears of
joy to my eyes whenever I am thinking of my nieces and nephews. Other
than my wife and son; no other human beings alive on this planet mean as
much to me as my Native relatives. When you spit on them; you spit on me.

Hold that thought while reading this next statement.

†. 1 John 3:1-2 . . How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that
we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! Dear friends:
now we are children of God.

Does God have paternal feelings for His kids? Well; I should think that
someone labeled in the Bible as "love" certainly has paternal feelings for His
own family. So then, how do you suppose it makes God feel when people
like evangelist-7 are doing their best to persuade God's children to lose
confidence in their Father's competence to see them through to safety?
You see; that's exactly what the anti-OSAS crowd is doing.

And it's not just the Father's reputation they're doing their utmost best to
ruin. When they insist it's possible for people to end up in hell who've
undergone the supernatural birth about Jesus spoke at John 3:3-8; what
they are really doing is casting a vote of no-confidence in Christ's
competence as the shepherd of his Father's sheep. I'm really going to enjoy
watching those people break out in a cold sweat when they stand before
God to answer for their conduct.

Buen Camino
/

Who insulted or denigrated them?

 

[John Zain]

Assuming they said, "God told me...", if they turn out wrong will you denounce them as false prophets?

I'm not positive if ALL 3 are BACs.

Having dreams, visions, etc. does not mean one is a prophet.

At one time, my wife was given paragraphs of info from the Lord as we drove 1/2 hour to church.
Then, she got up and "prophesied" this to the AoG assembly of 500, which took 5+ minutes.
This happened several times in one year.

It requires spiritual discernment (1 Cor 12) to know if such things are really from the Lord.
After a time, we felt fortunate that the leadership accepted her as a true prophetess.

 

[musterion]

It requires spiritual discernment (1 Cor 12) to know if such things are really from the Lord.

Can a prophet say something demonstrably and factually wrong and still be considered a prophet, in your opinion?

 

[John Zain]

Can a prophet say something demonstrably and factually wrong and still be considered a prophet, in your opinion?

IMO, no ... but I don't recall if any of the OT prophets were ever wrong.

Also, there's a difference if it is a "Thus says the Lord ..."

Also, prophets are people too ... 1 or 2 screw-ups only might be okay.

IMO, a church having a prophet with a 90% perfect rating is better than havin' none!

 

[musterion]

Right, there's one sense that prophesying is simply to 'speak forth' without direct inspiration, something I think any knowledgeable Bible believer can do since the power is in the Word itself. I meant those who claim (or imply without saying it) "This saith the Lord."

 

[John Zain]

Right, there's one sense that prophesying is simply to 'speak forth' without direct inspiration,
something I think any knowledgeable Bible believer can do since the power is in the Word itself.
I meant those who claim (or imply without saying it) "This saith the Lord."

IMO, if anyone prophesies in church ...
he/she should first have the spiritual power gift of prophecy in 1 Cor 12.

And those with any of these 9 spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 12 will first have the baptism
with the Holy Spirit, which is an anointing given by Jesus for this type of thing.

 

[justaname]

No earthquake...

 

[musterion]

No earthquake...

Well to be fair, the USGS site says there were a few in the 2.0 - 3.0 range, which is pretty much a daily occurance and so hardly prophetic.

Prophecy rating:

False.

 

[John Zain]

Prophecy rating: False.

Believe me, I was just praising the Lord for yet more warnings before allowing another disaster.
These dreams, visions, prophecies have been going on for 30+ years!
Which to the Lord is like 1000 / 30 = 1/3 of a day = 8 hours.

 

[musterion]

Believe me, I was just praising the Lord for yet more warnings before allowing another disaster.

Do you remember posting this?

So, why not avoid the Pacific coast on Thursday ... tomorrow.

If you were "just praising," it was based on your certainty the 'prophecies' would come to pass.

These dreams, visions, prophecies have been going on for 30+ years!

Then these folks have been deceived or lying to you for 30+ years.

Don't defend false prophets or false prophecies. Just admit it, they lied or were deceived. They did not hear from nor speak for God.

 

[Rach1370]

IMO, no ... but I don't recall if any of the OT prophets were ever wrong.

Also, there's a difference if it is a "Thus says the Lord ..."

Also, prophets are people too ... 1 or 2 screw-ups only might be okay.

IMO, a church having a prophet with a 90% perfect rating is better than havin' none!

In the OT the prophets were indeed human...they often 'stuffed' up, or doubted or ran. But in bringing a word from God, they were never, ever wrong. In fact God himself said that if a Prohphet prophecied incorrectly....even once...then they were not from God, in fact they were of against him and were to be put to death. (Deut 13"1-18; 18:20-22).

So I'm sorry, but biblically, having a 90% rating is just not good enough...not for a 'prophet'.

 

[williemac]

Prophecy is not necessary prediction. In fact for the new covenant, It's been my experience and biblical understanding that it is for edification.
But I will also comment that I cringe whenever I hear a Christian announce that a natural disaster or even a man made one such as 9/11 has happened because of God's anger or judgment. We are in the age of grace. God does not judge the world in this age, not since the judgment of the world was taken by Jesus at Calvary. In this present age, God is exercising patience (long suffering). He was in His Son reconciling the world to Himself. The sacrifice has satisfied His wrath and has satisfied the wages of sin. It has opened up a time in which each individual has a chance to respond to the gospel.....70 times 7, for starters. Judgment is now reserved for after the death of the unbeliever.

Furthermore, previous to the cross, the judgments of God did not produce collateral damage nor did it have what is called "friendly fire". But nowadays, believers are usually among those who are victims of huge disasters and attacks. This is not God's doing. There are no innocent victims in His perfect record.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Hell



Two weeks ago I had a bad night. I rolled and tossed all night. I kept thinking about a man I knew for half a life time. He gambled and drank and all that goes with that life style.

That man was in a nurseing home waiting to die of cancer. About half way through the night I got the point. The Holy Spirit wanted me to go to him in the AM. I did go to see him about 9:00am Sat.

I witnessed to him and told him that his brother who was in heaven wanted him to come to heaven too.

He didn't!

 

[John Zain]

In the OT the prophets were indeed human...they often 'stuffed' up, or doubted or ran. But in bringing a word from God, they were never, ever wrong. In fact God himself said that if a Prohphet prophecied incorrectly....even once...then they were not from God, in fact they were of against him and were to be put to death. (Deut 13"1-18; 18:20-22).

So I'm sorry, but biblically, having a 90% rating is just not good enough...not for a 'prophet'.

Okay, I sure don't remember the whole OT anymore.
Jesus told me when I was in my 50's to focus on the NT.

One important caveat, however ...
back in the old covenant, all the people had spiritually were their prophets.
BACs have the Holy Spirit, whom we trust for spiritual discernment
of whether a word is from the Lord, or not.

Today, I'm not sure which is preferable ... having 90% accuracy or no prophet at all.

 

[musterion]

Okay, I sure don't remember the whole OT anymore. Jesus told me when I was in my 50's to focus on the NT.

Fax, email, phone call?

BACs have the Holy Spirit, whom we trust for spiritual discernment of whether a word is from the Lord, or not.

So then how did you end up believing multiple false prophets?

 

[John Zain]

Okay, I sure don't remember the whole OT anymore. Jesus told me when I was in my 50's to focus on the NT.

Fax, email, phone call?

BACs have the Holy Spirit, whom we trust for spiritual discernment of whether a word is from the Lord, or not.

So then how did you end up believing multiple false prophets?

So, you don't believe that God talks to people?

My testimony (from 35 years ago) says He even talks to non-Christians.

 

[musterion]

Answering legit questions with illegit questions is impolite.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Throughout the entire Scriptures, only the righteous are saved.

The Christian is responsible for maintaining his imputed righteousness ...

“... whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

“... let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

“… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Rom 6:19)

“Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Q: Why don't people see that ... the warnings (which are viewed as negative)
are somewhat hidden along side of the PPs (the positive promises)?

A: Too many people just cannot handle the powerful threats contained in the warnings!

However, Jesus to the rescue, as always ...

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
(1 John 1:7-10)

Dunno, maybe this is the most important part of practicing righteousness:
the sincere repentance of sin.

Very true what you wrote! The Truth sets us free.
John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV

We have been given right standing with God, but it is up to us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling!
Phil 2:12-15
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
KJV

Heb 10:25-31
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
KJV

 

[williemac]

Heb 10:25-31
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
KJV

Unfortunately you didn't finish the context. Vs. 39: " But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who BELIEVE to the saving of the soul." The author was speaking of a scenario whereby the sacrifice of Jesus is rejected through unbelief. He just got through telling them how much more superior the sacrifice of Jesus was to that of animals. In the case of the old covenant, the sacrifice of animals is what kept them in good standing with God. These took place to cover the sins of the people. It was a given that they were going to sin. Mankind is destined to sin, no matter how hard he tries not to. Therefore the sacrifices were needed.

But after His great sacrifice for sin, the prior ones were dismantled. Therefore they are no longer in place. Therefore there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin, other than that of Jesus. So if a person sins outside of His sacrifice , there is only judgment waiting for them. The author is promoting faith in Jesus.

I have never heard a universal definition for willful sin. That is because it is mentioned only the one time in scripture. Therefore the author is the one who knew what he meant by it. The context reveals that he was referring to a scenario of sinning without a sacrifice in place. He was speaking of the rejection of the current sacrifice, the one that is greater than the blood of bulls and goats.

If the blood of Jesus cannot take away a particular type of sin, then it is vastly inferior to the previous sacrifices. This flies in the face of the rest of the context, in particular, the first part of chapter 10.

In fact, vs.18 states " now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin". This in plain language states that those who are in faith have had their sins remitted and have no more need for an offering, because there is no more sin charged to the person's account. 1John 2:1 says that if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father (Jesus). He has wiped our slate clean and He keeps it clean by the one sacrifice that was made once for all.

And Heb.10:39 confirms that we can remain in good standing and not draw back to perdition, if we continue to believe to the saving of the soul. It is all about faith. Faith is the underlying theme of the letter.

 

[Rach1370]

Okay, I sure don't remember the whole OT anymore.
Jesus told me when I was in my 50's to focus on the NT.

If 'Jesus' tells us to do something that doesn't quite line up with scripture, then how do we know it's truly Jesus??

Because as far as the Bible goes "ALL" scripture is important.

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:14-17, ESV)

Now, we know that under the new covenant of Christ that the OT is to be read in light of Jesus, but that does not mean that we ignore the OT, or dismiss it's teachings or truths. They are foundational to be able to understand the work of Christ...his gospel.

So if the OT tells us that to be a "Prophet"...and by that I mean capital P Prophet....someone who speaks the words of God; they are from God and have the exact intent that God wanted....then that person needs to have a 100% rating.

One important caveat, however ...
back in the old covenant, all the people had spiritually were their prophets.
BACs have the Holy Spirit, whom we trust for spiritual discernment
of whether a word is from the Lord, or not.

Well....I don't think that's exactly accurate. In the OT...particularly after Moses, they had the law. And the law was what told them that a Prophet of God predicted accurately 100% of the time, or was considered a false prophet.
And as for today...indeed we do have the Spirit, but we also are told to 'test' everything via scripture. We can know it is indeed the Holy Spirit guiding us when it resonates with scripture and vise versa.

It's these 'back ups' both then and now, that helps us know we are following the true God. Without them it would be too easy (and indeed we see it all too often) for people to claim to be from God...or having God speak to them....and it's simple not true. They are either being decieved, or being decievers themselves. God, in his wisdom and love, provided us; both then and now, with a way we can be absolutely sure it is from Him.

Today, I'm not sure which is preferable ... having 90% accuracy or no prophet at all.

I'm sorry...but that seems a little silly. "I'd rather have a false prophet than no prophet". Really?
Here's the thing....I don't think we have Prophets anymore...not the capital P sort...the OT sort. And that's because when Jesus came, he came with everything we need for salvation. The OT was a story, and when Jesus came he finished it. In terms of God's plan of salvation for his people, we don't need any more information.
But...that does not exclude sanctification. There are many people who recieve a word from God....but it's for them, or for their family, their Church. God is still guiding and loving us...but it's not the sort of thing that would then be written up as a new book of the bible. It's not scripture, and they (the person who recieved the word) are not a Prophet.
Does that make sense?