1 thess 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Over the past couple of years, I have been studying this subject of wether or not The Arch Angel Michael is actually The Lord Jesus christ, Gods chiefest messenger.. After much study and meditiation, I am convinced He is..The name Michael if broken down from its 3 roots, it says or means " Me assuredly or certainly is God.. or simply:who is like God.You remember someone else wanted to be like the Most High:isa 14:14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.This is symbolically satan himself, and during the time of the great tribulation, which we are in presently, and at the tail end of, he satan, will be granted worship of the non elect religous world via false gospels :3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Yes, satan is enjoying right now worship from the decieved non elect religous world..But back to my point. I have been blessed by one writers work on this subject of Michael the Arch Angel being christ:http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/michael.htmlThis writer has a very sound scriptural basis for this conclusion, and I am in agreement.Now let me say this as a disclaimer, I by no means endorse all what this author teaches, in fact, ironically, the writer and myself are in disagreement on the fact that Jesus christ , before the incarnation, actually existed in a tangible physical form, as being an Angel would imply..Yes Angels were Spiritual, but they were not bodilless..But God has promised that the earth shall help the women, the church:rev 12:16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. God can and will use plain men of this earth, to benefit the elect spiritual nourishment..I already know that many of you will say, that Jehovahs witness believe that michael is Jesus, well, i dont know if they do or not..but i do know, whatever they mean by it, its not the same as i, because I believe Michael/ Jesus is most certainly God..and i am sure JWs dont believe that..One of the key verses that convinced me that Jesus christ is the Arch Angel is that of my text..It talks about the voice of the Arch Angel at the descension of The Lord from heaven.It states after the voice of this Arch Angel with the Trump of God, then the dead in christ shall rise first..I dont believe there will be two seperate voices calling the dead to rise, so therefore, since i believe the voice of the Son of God will cause the dead to rise as in jn 5:25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.I believe vs 28, 29 are describing the same voice and event of 1 thess 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So, my conclusion is that, The voice of the Arch Angel and that of The Son of God are the same..Only The Son of God, who is God, can call the dead out of their graves..Now this establishes two Truthes, #1, That there is a Trinity, more than one Divine Being in the Godhead, and #2, That the Lord Jesus christ existed in bodily form before the incarnation, as The GodMan Mediator..__________________
Michael The Arch Angel is Jesus christ.
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The word says with the voice of an archangel, and it does not refer to michial specifically. Scipture never ever tells us that jesus was michial the archangel or that michial was jesus. This is a false doctrine i beleived implanted by satin to deceive you and rob you of truth. Im not buying this or any other false traditions of men such as the popular rapture myth.
There is only one arch angel in scripture..
Scripture never tells us that that Jesus is not Michael the Archangel..if it does show us the scripture..
It doesnt matter what you believe..your a decieved person anyway..
You dont believe the bible anyway..
Dan 12 and Acts 5 Dan 12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Israel]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Acts 5:31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Jesus christ is the prince of Israel, Always has been and Always will be. Israel primarily stands for Gods People, Gods church, Gods nation..ps 33:12Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance. [Israel]Now the book of daniel is very instructive, in that he informs us that the heathen nations had their angels as seen in dan 10 1313But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.Now, case in point, if God designated evil angels / princes unto evil nations, there is no reason to be suprised that He designated, The Arch Angel Michael as the prince of His own peculiar people, who I believe to be His own Son [ Jesus christ] in His preexistence manhood Nature, whom I also believe to be the Angel of the covenant,Mal 3:1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger [Angel] of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hostsThe Angel of Gods Prescence Isa 63:8For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour. 9In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.And the Angel in whom his name was ex 23:20Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. This is understood, when that Angel is none other than The Man, The Lord Jesus christ in union with the Divine EssenceSo why not Jesus christ as Michael the ArchAngel, The Great Prince of Israel/ Thy people..Its very noteworthy that scripture is silent on their being plural ArchAngels, and that could be for no other reason than, there was only one ArchAngel, Michael the Christ..Michael your prince, The Angel govorner of Israel..Whom's voice I believe the church will hear soon 1 thess 5:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord [Jesus] himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Ha ha you bring up a good point brother mike wth jiberish like this i say to svaedbygrace have a good trip when antichrist comesBrother Mike;72119 said:
Although your right i should not have responded but it angers me so to see gods children deceived..............like you say though saved bygrace will sail his own ship if he doesnt change his ways.I hope after me -no one gives the topic the time of day and passes over it.Don't the JW's have their own website - forum? Don't answer...LOL.
Elaine:savedbygrace57 is not a JW. He is an extreme calvinist. He is also a few other things, but I can't define them, as He baffles me sometimes.Be blessed Sister!!!! Jesus Is Lord.
Charles Taze Russell would be very happy with your findings (savedbygrace57)Choose any method you wish to deny That God has a Son. They all work. Mission accomplished. You have lots of company. It is a very long list of people who deny the deity of Jesus Christ. But you are not the first , and you have arrived late on the scene. The very first ones did not have a computer or a keyboard. They had nails and wood.Best wishes with your studies savedbygrace57. Most of us have gone through these issues at one time or another. God has a Son , and his name was not Michael.savedbygrace57;72110]Over the past couple of years said:
SBG,I know you are an "island unto yourself" so you will not believe what I am about to tell you but Jesus Christ and Michael the Arch Angel are NOT the same. You will discover that in the near future. Sorry!
The problem in this matter is that, some dont know when to take Angel in its nature meaning or its office meaning..Jesus christ was never an Angel by nature, per His Offical Office as the Angel of Jehovah or Michael the ArchAngel, but by Office..
Rev 1:20The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:The word for angel here is the greek word:aggelos which means:a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from GodNo doubt these seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, which were the seven candle sticks..I don't believe the seven stars / angels were Angels by nature, but by office, denoting they were messengers to Gods People..In this respect, men are angels or messengers when sent by God. John the baptist was referenced as one Here Mal 3:1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before meThe Word for messenger here is the word:mal'ak :messenger, representativea) messengerB) angelc) the theophanic angelSo John was an Angel/ Messenger, not in Nature but in office..Also in that very same verse of Mal 3 1, Jesus Christ is the Messenger of the Covenant:and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger [ Angel ] of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts..Jesus Christ however was Gods Chief Messenger, and that can be translated into Michael the Arch Angel..The Word Arch in the is:archō:to be chief, to lead, to ruleThe Arch Angel is used twice, both times of Michael in Jude:9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.1 thess 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Now this voice of the Arch Angel is here associated with the dead in Christ rising !This is the same thing said about Jesus Christ voice when He returns per Jn 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth [Rise]; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. This is the Same voice, The voice of the Son of God, and the voice of the ArchAngel, with the same results, the raising of the dead..
I pray no one listens to this trash Michael and Jesus are not one in the same Angels were a seprate creation from man ... And Christ was never an angel.. he is God we have one God three aspects father, Son, Holy ghost ....Not and the angel Michael thou shall have no other Gods before me ............First comendment ......This is a JW belief ...... SBG you seem to follow a doctrine of all the cults .....
Sadly, this doctrine gets regurgitated in many false new age stories as well.For those who would like to actually see the Scripture on this one:
So much for that theory.
That's a pretty poor perversion of Scripture. Notice how you must insert words to make it work, not to mention that the verse simply labels Christ as a Prince among kings of the Earth. The former is always the single largest hint when the mark is missed and the doctrine of man begins creeping in. You have no Scripture that states God the Father is a prince of any sort, what you'll do, I anticipate, is simply assert that we're all denying the divinity of Christ when we make that statement. Hardly so, because then you assert the Bible denies Christ, which it rather clearly does not.So, to further let Scripture speak, I'll indulge the false doctrine a little longer.Why don't we, since you falsely assert these two are one in the same, take a moment and look at how they handle Satan:
A three-pronged rebuke perfectly arranged in a three-verse interval. Surely the mark of divine order and of God's presence in the Word. Notice how when Jesus rebukes Satan, he says don't tempt God?Now, let us jump to Jude where we have the words of Michael.
That, my friend, shows clearly yet again that this nonsense about Michael being Christ does not hold a drop of water. Christ need not say "The Lord rebuke thee!" because He is the Lord! The defense of Michael comes from someone who is lower than Christ using the Lord to rebuke Satan. Christ does not need to say that phrase, he'd simply say what he said to Peter. Get thee hence, Satan!In closing:
In order for Christ to be the chief angel, he'd obviously need to be an angel.
swamp says:
i use scripture to understand scripture..you can call it perversion if you like..swamp:
Again, your confused on when the scripture uses angel as to the nature of an angel, or when as the office of an angel..In the office of an angel, men are used as messengers which are angels .I have already been over this, but you don't and cant see it.. Jesus Christ as a Man was a messenger of God.. Mal 3: 1Behold, I will send my messenger [John the baptist- A man], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger [Jesus Christ- a man] of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. As a Men Jesus Christ as John were messengers.. Jn 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man [A Messenger/Angel] which is preferred before me: for he was before me. I have done no violence to the Deity of Christ, His Deity isn't in view right now..His Manhood his.. Your quibble is unfounded and a shows lack of understanding ..
So then what do you do with Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 1:13-14? Do you just conveniently ignore what those verses say?By the way, search my posts, I'm well aware of what I have said about angels translating to messenger. However, regardless of that, the aforementioned verses clearly show Christ was not one. Anyone trying to pass off otherwise...well...it's obvious.
SwampFox;73443]So then what do you do with Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 1:13-14? Do you just conveniently ignore what those verses say? By the way said:
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