Monasticism

[Pearl]

I wonder if Anglican nuns have more of a ministry to their communities than the Catholics - like in 'Call The Midwife' practical as well as religious.

 

[farouk]

I read a book a few years ago called the Magdalene Sisters (and also the film Philomena) which portrayed the cruelty of women supposed to be serving God. That's why I called them hypocrites.

@Pearl Indeed it's good to remember that just because a person puts on religious garb outwardly, the heart inwardly has not changed; this is of course why the new birth of John 3 is so vital.

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Indeed it's good to remember that just because a person puts on religious garb outwardly, the heart inwardly has not changed; this is of course why the new birth of John 3 is so vital.

Absolutely true farouk.

 

[marks]

Broadly there are two types; those that are enclosed and contemplative and those that have a ministry in the world, for example running schools & clinics, particularly in poor countries.
Those that are contemplative are not just praying for themselves but for the world (1Tim 2:1).

I think, to each according to their calling and faith.

Much love!

 

[Mungo]

What I see Paul and Jesus saying is the opposite of hiding from the world in a monastery or closed Amish communities. Praying for souls is good, but per Romans 10, they can’t believe until they hear and can’t hear until someone tells them.

That is the job of the Church as a whole. We are all parts of the body of Christ.
To push the analogy further; some parts of the body are hidden from the world and yet essential to the functioning of the body.

Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord...... And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? (1Cor 12:4,5 28-30)
It's worth reading the whole of 1 Cor 12

 

[Mungo]

I wonder if Anglican nuns have more of a ministry to their communities than the Catholics - like in 'Call The Midwife' practical as well as religious.

Catholic nuns have a great ministry to the community; less now than they used to in practical terms as the state taken over schooling and medicine (for example), and the numbers are declining - at least in the UK.

 

[Mungo]

What I see Paul and Jesus saying is the opposite of hiding from the world in a monastery or closed Amish communities. Praying for souls is good, but per Romans 10, they can’t believe until they hear and can’t hear until someone tells them.

I think people do. A few years ago I was involved with a group running an annual conference. Before the Conference we used to write to many Convents asking for their prayer.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

They are actually in error by hiding from the world instead of being a light in the world, and are hiding their light under a bushel, by cutting themselves off from the world to that extent.

12 hours of prayer shut off from the world won’t make disciples of all men.

That’s the mistake the Amish also make, by avoiding contact as much as possible and staying to themselves to the extent they do.

Vows of celibacy are also wrong, per the apostle Paul, it’s better to marry than burn with lust, which leads to sins such as molestation, and even rape.

I read years ago that besides hiding the fact of priests molesting boys, they are hiding the problem of nuns being harassed sexually and even raped by priests, especially in other countries.

Yes, I lean towards this idea of isolating yourself away from the world, away from it's evil is more of a selfish empty spiritual pursuit. We are to pray without ceasing. That doesn't mean we should close ourselves off to commune only with God. A monk that goes off on a spiritual journey all by himself is not loving his neighbor at all. He is not really exercising faith. I don't think he is even growing. Faith, hope, love, patience, kindness, forgiveness, even self-control need to be exercised in the world. Why would you need any of these attributes in a closed isolated environment of undisturbed peaceful seclusion? I also think it might be a tad bit of self deception thinking that your little compound is void of sin. We are all sinners. It may also give you a false sense of achieving some higher level of spirituality.
We need to be living in the world, and in Christ. "Go out and make disciples ..." not stay inside! We will have eternity apart from the world, but I think our lives are to be lived surrounded by both good and evil so we can shine our light and be salt. Creating a little private compound where everyone is separate from evil is not benefiting anyone, not even yourself.
I can understand the value of living in a sanctuary. My home is my sanctuary. But what if I decided to stay in my home, have everything delivered, avoid any physical contact with people anymore? I would be creating my own monastery, quarantining myself away from people - no mask needed!
I think that is what Satan has caused the world to do, separate themselves from each other during this pandemic. When we congregate together we are strong, but alone we are weak and vulnerable. Monk shmunk!
That said, I do respect those who devote their lives, to serving others _ if that is what they are doing.
And maybe I am thinking of them in a strict sense of isolation. If they are going out and serving then coming back for sleep or a temporary respite, I guess I would be more in favor of that.

 

[marks]

Yes, I lean towards this idea of isolating yourself away from the world, away from it's evil is more of a selfish empty spiritual pursuit. We are to pray without ceasing. That doesn't mean we should close ourselves off to commune only with God.

Isolating from the world . . . but without isolation.

I'm in a bubble with God. I'm alive unto God, that is to say, my spirit and His Spirit are always in communion, God is always with me, His attention upon me, and I'm free, forgiven, nothing to ever separate us. My reconciliation to God in Christ.

So before anything else, my mind goes towards God first. I can think of things as relates to their distance from me. There is now, this moment, but God is closer than that. Whatever my circumstance or condition, He's here first. So I first relate my circumstance to Him. It's planned, with good intent. My job duties, my forum posts, my conversations with my coworkers. He is closer than all those, more immediate, so as I'm doing those things, I check with Him first. My wife and my home and our cats and the bills and groceries and store clerks and other drivers, He's closer. How does He love? How does He provide? How does He interact? He's right here, and when I'm paying attention, He shows me, by doing it through me, and eventually that just becomes me, as we grow closer and closer.

I think of this as isolation with God, but I can carry that with me.

Much love!

 

[Berserk]

Monasticism began after Constantine established Christianity as the state religion and politically correct piety replaced "the power and demonstration of the Spirit" that radiated from much of prior Catholicism. Many were hungry for more of God and fled to the desert to escape secular distractions and devote themselves to prayer and a deeper relationship with Christ. Compared to their costly discipleship, the standard evangelicalism in which I was raised is a pale joke! Soon, the sick and depressed sought out these monks and, after experiencing apostolic caliber miraculous healings, they returned to their cities to share their testimonies. As more monks fled to the wilderness, they found it practical to form monasteries to make the collective faith and prayer of the body of Christ more effective.

Spiritual retreats sponsored by monastic spiritual directors can be the best way possible to develop a more intimate relationship with Christ. Jesuits offer a Masters degree in Spiritual Direction which is often offered at lovely retreat centers with incredible and beautiful spiritual fruit resulting. Philip Yancy is one of the most popular and prolific evangelical writers of the late 20th century and many of you have profited from his many devotional books. He once confessed to a priest that, despite his status as a born again Christian, he had never had a self-authenticating experience of God; rather, he just accepted by faith that God dwelt within. That priest issued this challenge: "Join my spiritual retreat and I guarantee that you will experience God in the most satisfying way." Yancey complied and gratefully acknowledged that the priest's challenge came true!

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Looks like you don’t have a high opinion on monks eh? Never mind visiting a monastery.
To me they seemed extremely devoted to Jesus and extremely humble in how they view themselves because they constantly pray “Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner”.

Christ taught that prayers are not supposed to be repetitious chants(Matt. 6:7). As pious as those prayers may be, they contradict clear instructions.

Spiritual retreats sponsored by monastic spiritual directors can be the best way possible to develop a more intimate relationship with Christ. Jesuits offer a Masters degree in Spiritual Direction which is often offered at lovely retreat centers with incredible and beautiful spiritual fruit resulting. Philip Yancy is one of the most popular and prolific evangelical writers of the late 20th century and many of you have profited from his many devotional books. He once confessed to a priest that, despite his status as a born again Christian, he had never had a self-authenticating experience of God; rather, he just accepted by faith that God dwelt within. That priest issued this challenge: "Join my spiritual retreat and I guarantee that you will experience God in the most satisfying way." Yancey complied and gratefully acknowledged that the priest's challenge came true!

Evangelistic experiences at a monastic retreat does nothing to validate monasticism. You're also clearly ignoring the fact that Christ stated in Matt. 7 that deceivers would perform all sorts of miracles. And as Christ Himself went on to state, none of that means they have a relationship with Him. In Matt, 24:24, Christ gave a very similar warning:

“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

One of the many problems with the Christian world is that people base the validity of someone's ministry on miracles or experiences instead of what they're practicing or teaching. To them, God is just a sideshow attraction. That's exactly how the Samaritans were deceived into believing Simon Magus was a minister of God. If someone's Christianity is based on reducing God to an experience(let alone a self-authenticating experience), then they have an extremely poor perception of God.

 

[Mungo]

Christ taught that prayers are not supposed to be repetitious chants(Matt. 6:7).

Jesus taught no such thing.