Must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

[Episkopos]

Faith is easy as long as we don't trust the ego. Ego is always needy and wanting. Faith does not work under any conditionality, including wants and needs. It only works unconditionally, accepting whatever God's will is for us. Faith vacates self/ego from our consciousness and invites Truth to merge with our consciousness. When that happens, our thoughts and feelings are expressions of truth. Truth sets us free. Free of fear, wants, needs, and sin. Free is to be unconditional, free from the bondage of self. Free is Truth, Love and Faith. Free is easy, free is rest.

As soon as we tense up, we are trusting self again, instead of God. We can become sensitive enough to sense our loss of freedom. The more we can accept everything the more grateful we become for the freedom. Hence, we love it. We love the Truth above everything else, this is worshiping God, and we miss it more quickly whenever we get sidetracked.

A certain degree of truth can be received psychologically to some benefit. But the bible is about an absolute perfection. A man can't do that. We need His grace to go beyond our human limitations.

It's not that it's bad to only go partway. It's just not complete.

And who measures the standard of Christ in our lives? People want to judge their improvement or level of advancement for themselves rather than against Christ.

Just imagine if God told Noah to build a boat...without telling him the desired dimensions. Would Noah have built a boat that took him 120 years to build on a whim?

Did God give us a standard of achievement or are we left to judge this for ourselves?

Indeed God has a standard...and that is the full stature of Christ. Be perfect as God is perfect.

 

[marks]

The thought that the 'atonement' is God's side of the 'salvation' equation, whereas the experience of our consequential 'New Birth and Life' is our side of that equation, often pervades my quiet times of reflection.

Hi Mike,

My intention was express the difference between sins being covered - but not removed - by sacrifice, and the new creation we become in Christ. It think this is the truth and the spirit that Jesus was referring to. What was an external system became who we are.

Much love!

 

[marks]

As soon as we tense up, we are trusting self again, instead of God. We can become sensitive enough to sense our loss of freedom.

Good words!

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

Crucified means dead....dead to sins...fully. If being crucified was a once for all event then no Christian would ever sin again because of the death to self that the power of the cross brings.

When we speak of a "positional" crucifixion we are dealing with a dogmatic ideology that has no meaning or power to stop people from sinning.

But you speak of the flesh Gods Spirit in us cannot sin, There was a reason why God made an earthen vessel, there was a reason why God put His spirit in that vessel. there was a reason why Jesus condemned sin to the flesh, which is the very same reason the devil keeps people hanging onto there flesh. Once a man has finished with the wine in an earthen jar, it is discarded, it has no more use.

 

[Invisibilis]

A certain degree of truth can be received psychologically to some benefit. But the bible is about an absolute perfection. A man can't do that. We need His grace to go beyond our human limitations.

It's not that it's bad to only go partway. It's just not complete.

And who measures the standard of Christ in our lives? People want to judge their improvement or level of advancement for themselves rather than against Christ.

Just imagine if God told Noah to build a boat...without telling him the desired dimensions. Would Noah have built a boat that took him 120 years to build on a whim?

Did God give us a standard of achievement or are we left to judge this for ourselves?

Indeed God has a standard...and that is the full stature of Christ. Be perfect as God is perfect.

The above post is about human standards based on 'self'. It's exactly what Adam and Eve stumbled on.
There is no degree of truth, no versions of truth. There is no such thing as a half-truth because it is a deception. Truth is perfect.
The standard of achievement is our unconditional faith in that little bit we know is true - God's spirit in us. It 'knows' the Truth, for it only 'knows' the truth. Our inmost being it is attracted to what is in harmony with it, which is Truth. Truth is our standard based on our innermost Being.

 

[Episkopos]

But you speak of the flesh Gods Spirit in us cannot sin, There was a reason why God made an earthen vessel, there was a reason why God put His spirit in that vessel. there was a reason why Jesus condemned sin to the flesh, which is the very same reason the devil keeps people hanging onto there flesh. Once a man has finished with the wine in an earthen jar, it is discarded, it has no more use.

You are making Gnostic statements here. Someone who abides in the divine Christ CANNOT sin in the flesh. And Gnosticism is rife in the modern church because so few have worked out that God has indeed come in the flesh. Not just a really good human...but the divine Lord from heaven. And the same flesh as our own...not a superior divine flesh.

So Christians have a very hard time believing that God actually became human...just like JW's have a very hard time accepting a human could also be God.

But both of these are missing the mark.

But we prefer to focus only on one possible way to get it wrong...not realizing that we also get it wrong...but just in another way.

In Him is NO sin. They who abide in Him cannot sin. Anything else is unbelief and carnal....and a lie.

 

[bbyrd009]

John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?

obv by going to some place we call church for an hour every other Sunday, right

Our inmost being it is attracted to what is in harmony with it, which is Truth. Truth is our standard based on our innermost Being.

the heart is deceitful above all things so wadr i bet "truth" is the last thing that we would accept as a standard tbh; you talk to us, and we will listen...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Episkopos said: ↑
...We take on the perfection of Christ by entering into Him by the Spirit...

Thanks for your response.
I have a question from _

How do you do that?

Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

 

[marks]

When we speak of a "positional" crucifixion we are dealing with a dogmatic ideology that has no meaning or power to stop people from sinning.

What is "positional crucifixion"? I've never heard that said. Either you are, or you aren't. Right?

 

[marks]

Crucified means dead....dead to sins...fully. If being crucified was a once for all event then no Christian would ever sin again because of the death to self that the power of the cross brings.

I guess I needed a second look on this . . . are you saying you are crucifed multiple times?

 

[marks]

Can you be said to be worshiping God in spirit and in truth when you are attempting to build your own righteousness?

 

[marks]

You are making Gnostic statements here. Someone who abides in the divine Christ CANNOT sin in the flesh. And Gnosticism is rife in the modern church because so few have worked out that God has indeed come in the flesh. Not just a really good human...but the divine Lord from heaven. And the same flesh as our own...not a superior divine flesh.

How are his statements Gnostic? Or do you not mean in the historical sense?

How do you apply your words to yourself, that if you are actually in Christ that you cannot commit any sin, given what I've seen from you? I know how you have addressed various ones on this forum. Is it then your testimony that you are not in Christ?

?

 

[mjrhealth]

You are making Gnostic statements here. Someone who abides in the divine Christ CANNOT sin in the flesh. And Gnosticism is rife in the modern church because so few have worked out that God has indeed come in the flesh. Not just a really good human...but the divine Lord from heaven. And the same flesh as our own...not a superior divine flesh.

I wouldnt know gnosticism I only know Christ. I can also guarantee that no one actually know what sin is, except Christ.

 

[Invisibilis]

Missing the point.

 

[hermeneutics]

John 4:23-24. "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24.God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

This is not a test. I am seriously asking you how do you worship in the Spirit and in truth?

If one is going to worship God he must have the Spirit of God residing in one's self. How do we know if God is residing in us?

Peter has the keys to the kingdom and he has to open the Gate. Then, when that gate is opened be must go through it.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How do all know?
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

What does this accomplish?
Remission of past sins and the gift of eternal life.

Again, Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, we can not change what Peter says is required to get into Heaven.

 

[Invisibilis]

If one is going to worship God he must have the Spirit of God residing in one's self. How do we know if God is residing in us?

Peter has the keys to the kingdom and he has to open the Gate. Then, when that gate is opened be must go through it.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How do all know?
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

What does this accomplish?
Remission of past sins and the gift of eternal life.

Again, Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, we can not change what Peter says is required to get into Heaven.

So, how do the unbaptized recognize the truth when they hear it?
If you say they cannot, then how do they know what an evangelist is talking about?

Every human being has at birth received the spirit of God breathed into them (see Genesis 2:7)

This spirit of God knows the Truth.

 

[Collin Feener]

To worship God in Spirit and in truth you must first know what Spirit and truth are. If you don't know this you aren't worshiping in Spirit or in truth. Jesus said, the words I speak are Spirit. He spoke a lot of things but to truly hear and understand is to hear what the Spirit is saying in the teachings of the bible but the bible is written in parables so having ears they will not hear and eyes they will not see. You can find it written where it is said that Jesus always spoke in parables and never did he not speak in parables. The new testament is his body and Jesus is speaking to each of us but we need wisdom as the wisdom of angels to receive the words of the kingdom. They are all over the bible in the prophets and psalms but you have to recognize them.
It is written Jesus healed the inflictions of the body. He healed the blind men 2000 years ago yet the world is blind to these things we speak of now and who is it that asked for the healing to see the things of God. To see the majesty of the Lord's Kingdom and who asked the Lord to hear his glorious voice.
The words of the Spirit are hidden from plain sight and the coming of the understanding is the revelation of truth and the fulfillment of the word. The written word is flesh and is given for us as the world understands and for us to overcome.
If you see Peter and his great catch do you see the church he started having the great catch of men and even now saying there are no fish anymore. but waite, the only need know to take Jesus with them and now cast to the right. They don't know what that means but the word is their net and to throw it into the world in Spirit and truth is to cast to the right. When Jesus was on the shore and asked them if they had any meat yet. Is it fish he refers too or meat of the scriptures.
It is said we must come with righteousness. Wisdom covers our nakedness and is likened unto as a robe of honor. Understanding is a robe of majesty and the wisdom and understanding of God is the robe of righteousness. When Peter dove into the waters to get to shore he jumped in with his robes on. This world is a great sea where the church cast their nets. Doesn't it make more sense Peter went with his church into the world fishing men and headed for dry land where Jesus was, Jesus not in this world of sin.
to worship in Spirit and truth you need know what it is the Spirit is saying and those are the true words of Jesus.

 

[quietthinker]

In Spirit = the conscious core of ones reality. In Truth = the willingness to come clean at every juncture.

 

[hermeneutics]

So, how do the unbaptized recognize the truth when they hear it?
If you say they cannot, then how do they know what an evangelist is talking about?

Every human being has at birth received the spirit of God breathed into them (see Genesis 2:7)

This spirit of God knows the Truth.

The truth is, Adam was not created in Gen 1, he was formed in Gen 2.

Mankind did not receive the spirit of God.

Luk_3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
That means that the son's of Adam were the grandsons of God.

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Daughters of men, those created in Gen 1.