Must You Be Born Again?

[JohnDB]

In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). Simply stated in that case, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23), but the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

Water is Law...
Bless my heart...I've finally seen someone get it right and understood what Jesus was saying to Nicodemus.

Born of water...the Law.
Born of Spirit... someone who has an important task to perform.

So few people believed in Jesus...but to have a member of the Council believe and try to be a friend of Jesus is a small miracle in itself.

But Nicodemus didn't feel special. Even if he didn't recognize the prophecy concerning himself...he was exactly as Jesus said he was.

Amen!

 

[Rocky Wiley]

We do need to be born again but baptism isn't new birth it is a sign, something that we need to do after we have been born again.

It completes the birth by making one the same as a baby, they have no sin in them at birth.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible NEVER contradicts itself.

You would therefore have to show where the Bible teaches that baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine.

Please note that if you show that we can be saved through faith apart from baptism, you will have toppled a straw man.

My position is that baptism has the power to save (1 Peter 3:20-21, Romans 6:1-4, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Ezekiel 36:25-27, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39 w/ Romans 8:30, and more); not that it is the only means by which a person might be saved (such as in a specific interpretation of John 3:5).

 

[justbyfaith]

Only as interpreted by certain sectors.

Make your gamble...if I am right and you are wrong, and you aren't baptized, you lose everything. If you are right and I am wrong, I have been baptized, and I lose nothing. I also lose nothing if I am right and you are wrong; because I have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; but in that instance you lose everything; having not been baptized in His name.

 

[Triumph1300]

JustbyFaith, It's all already covered by many posts on this thread and the "water baptism" thread.
Makes no sense to start this all over again.
I am not going to comment on this issue anymore.

 

[justbyfaith]

JustbyFaith, It's all already covered by many posts on this thread and the "water baptism" thread.
Makes no sense to start this all over again.
I am not going to comment on this issue anymore.

I also, stopped posting on this subject; because nothing presented by the opposing view was able to convince me of their pov; and I also said my piece.

My only point is that if you are going to gamble on the idea that "water" in John 3:5 is referring to amniotic fluid, you are a braver person than I am and much more of a risk-taker.

Because if you are wrong and "water" is referring to water baptism; but you don't get water baptized because you trusted in that interpretation (i.e. that "water" is amniotic fluid): well, you lose everything because you didn't do what it takes to receive salvation. But if I am wrong, I have been water baptized and it does not take away my salvation that I have done so; so I lose nothing. But if I am right, then I have gained everything because I heeded the commandment and was water-baptized. But if you are wrong, you were not water baptized and will not be saved because you gambled and lost.

This is to cut to the chase through all of the arguments and to simply encourage people to be water baptized if they have not yet received this sacrament in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

If water baptism saves, then it saves in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12) and not in titles.

Consider.

2Co 10:3, For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4, (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
2Co 10:5, Casting down imaginations (arguments), and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6, And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[Pearl]

Make your gamble...if I am right and you are wrong, and you aren't baptized, you lose everything. If you are right and I am wrong, I have been baptized, and I lose nothing. I also lose nothing if I am right and you are wrong; because I have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; but in that instance you lose everything; having not been baptized in His name.

How old were you when you were baptised?

 

[farouk]

I don't believe in baptismal regeneration. In Acts 2.41, ppl were baptised because they were believers; they were not baptised supposedly to become believers.

 

[Pearl]

I don't believe in baptismal regeneration. In Acts 2.41, ppl were baptised because they were believers; they were not baptised supposedly to become believers.

So right farouk. Anybody who gets baptised without being regenerated first is deceiving themselves and others. But god isn't deceived; He looks on the heart not the outward show of religion.

 

[farouk]

So right farouk. Anybody who gets baptised without being regenerated first is deceiving themselves and others. But god isn't deceived; He looks on the heart not the outward show of religion.

@Pearl Indeed so; exactly my own convictions also.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

So you are back to promoting baptismal regeneration. The Catholic Church has been promoting this nonsense since time immemorial , and you have joined the crowd.

Baptismal regeneration is FALSE DOCTRINE. Regeneration -- the New Birth -- is strictly a supernatural inward work of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism for believers comes later, since water has no spiritual power or merit.

Peter was given the keys to heaven. What was it that Peter told the Jews, children of Israel and Gentiles to do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The gift of the Holy Ghost is eternal life!

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

 

[JohnDB]

Exodus 40 is the explanation of the practice of Baptism.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is definitely a change in attitude for those who are baptized as opposed to for those who are baptized not:

Luk 7:29, And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30, But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ezekiel 36:25-27 speaks of regeneration for those who are merely sprinkled. How much more for those who are fully immersed in full baptism?

 

[Pearl]

Ezekiel 36:25-27 speaks of regeneration for those who are merely sprinkled. How much more for those who are fully immersed in full baptism?

That was then. After Jesus things changed and it was only His blood that could cleanse us from sin. And Baptism is an outward sign of that cleansing. It is not actually the water that makes us clean.

 

[farouk]

Ezekiel 36:25-27 speaks of regeneration for those who are merely sprinkled. How much more for those who are fully immersed in full baptism?

It says they would be cleansed. It's not the mere symbol that does it.

 

[justbyfaith]

It says they would be cleansed. It's not the mere symbol that does it.

It says that God will give them a new heart and a new spirit; and that He will cause them to walk in His statutes and judgments; even, apparently, as the result of the fact that He sprinkles clean water on them.

 

[justbyfaith]

That was then. After Jesus things changed and it was only His blood that could cleanse us from sin. And Baptism is an outward sign of that cleansing. It is not actually the water that makes us clean.

The blood is in the water (1 John 5:8).

 

[Pearl]

The blood is in the water (1 John 5:8).

No.

 

[justbyfaith]

No.

You want to gamble on eternity, be my guest.