Hello,
I found a really interesting take on who the Nephilim were, and that they seem to relate to the Old Testament doctrine of hell (the place of the damned).
Let me, first of all, give you the general idea, and then I will show you the quotes of the theologians where it is argued.
The idea is this:
Hell, as we find it in the New Testament, is generally represented under the analogy or type of Old Testament phenomena. So in the New Testament, the two famous pictures or representations of hell are,
1) The place of the valley of Hinnom, where the Israelites sacrificed their children to Moloch. The word we translate as "hell", which is the greek "gehenna", is the greek form of the name of that very place.
2) The lake of fire. This is thought of being an allusion to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra with fire from heaven, because Sodom and Gomorra where placed just nearby the dead sea.
Now the question was being raised, by what name or idea hell was being talked about in the Old Testament from the very first. It is thought, for example, and it follows logically, that the sacrifices of the Israelites in the valley of Hinnom was only a picture and type of hell after the Babylonian Captivity. But how was it represented before that time?
Now this is where it becomes very interesting. Let me just be brief here and then I will quote the texts and arguments, so you can read them yourselves and come to your own conclusions.
So, the author gives the suggestion that before the Babylonian Captivity, and indeed from the very first, the most ancient times, hell was known as the place where the Rephaim reside. And he bases his argument in the way that the Septuagint translators translated this and similar terms. You see, the translators of the Septuagint translated more than one word as Giants. They translated at least three words as Giants, which are Rephaim, Nephilim and Gibborim. And this connection or interpretation of the Septuagint translators we find in our own bibles aswell, because there, in the Hebrew, the Rephaim, Nephilim and Gibborim are directly related to one another, they seem to comprise one group, but maybe from slightly different angles or perspectives. Let me prove this very fast and then I move on:
The Emim formerly lived there, a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim. Like the Anakim they are also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim. (Dt 2:10–11.)
Here we see that the Anakim are counted as Rephaim.
And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them. (Nu 13:33.)
Here we see that the Anakim (the sons of Anak) come from the Nephilim.
So that's the first connection, Rephaim are closely related to Nephilim. And then the Gibborim, to conclude the connection of the three groups:
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. (Ge 6:4.)
Here the Nephilim are being defined as the "mighty men", which in the Hebrew is Gibborim.
So there you have the connection of the three groups, and, accordingly, the Septuagint translators translate each of the terms as Giants.
Now, we, or, in our bibles, oftentimes when the term Rephaim appears in the Hebrew, it is translated as shades or ghosts, sometimes dead, meaning, the departed souls in Sheol. This the author also recognizes. But he suggests that this is a wrong translation, and credits the Septuagint translators with better insight into these things, by not translating it as shades. Let me give you one example, it's Proverbs Chapter 21 Verse 16:
One who wanders from the way of good sense
will rest in the assembly of the dead. [Hebrew: Rephaim]
So then here is where it becomes really interesting: our author, as I said, suggests that we should rather (to keep faithful to the underlying text) keep the term Rephaim, rather than dead (or shades, ghosts), so that it reads, as other places too, that he who wanders from the way of good sense, should rest in the assembly of the Rephaim. He keeps them, the Rephaim, company. But what does that mean? Well, here comes the deal: according to our author, the Rephaim (which the Septuagint, together with the terms Nephilim and Gibborim, translates as "Giants") were these mighty, wicked men of renown, from Genesis 6, because of whom the flood came upon the world. And because there was such a huge amount of them which was swept away at once, therefore, when the Bible of the Old Testament later speaks of wicked men going to the grave, it terms it by "going to the assembly of the Rephaim", because they rest there where wicked men will go after death.
Now, I don't know about you, but I found this absolutely fascinating, and I have never heard that theory and explanation before. Just as the Holy Spirit picks up the story of Sodom and Gomorra when describing the Lake of Fire, and just as he picks up the Valley of Hinnom when describing the Gehenna where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched, so in the same way he first of all picked up the story of the Giants (Rephaim, Nephilim, Gibborim) before the flood, when describing the most ancient phrase of the place of the damned in the Old Testament. And mind you, these Giants have nothing to do with physical size, but the term is applied to the mighty men of old, men of renown; renown and grand for their wickedness. Nimrod is being called a Giant in the Septuagint. The greek "Gigantes" also doesn't seem have that connotation of being enormous in size, but could simply mean "earth-born". Google it. So then, maybe only later, because some wicked earth-born heroes of the ancient mythologies just happen to be also enormous in size, then, by this circumstance, the term (Gigantes) by which these wicked heroes were being called, though originally only denoting their being born from earth, so a new meaning emerged, which also denoted their enormous size.
I found all this when I was reading a puritan divine, Thomas Goodwin, and I will now quote two short texts of his about that. But this idea or discovery isn't his own, but he found it when reading Joseph Mede, another biblical scholar. So these are two godly men. I will also link the whole argument by Mede himself.
I hope someone can benefit and maybe discuss this theory. To me this is fresh air in the midst of all this Michael Heiser stuff that is currently running around.
Kind regards and God bless.
I found a really interesting take on who the Nephilim were, and that they seem to relate to the Old Testament doctrine of hell (the place of the damned).
Let me, first of all, give you the general idea, and then I will show you the quotes of the theologians where it is argued.
The idea is this:
Hell, as we find it in the New Testament, is generally represented under the analogy or type of Old Testament phenomena. So in the New Testament, the two famous pictures or representations of hell are,
1) The place of the valley of Hinnom, where the Israelites sacrificed their children to Moloch. The word we translate as "hell", which is the greek "gehenna", is the greek form of the name of that very place.
2) The lake of fire. This is thought of being an allusion to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra with fire from heaven, because Sodom and Gomorra where placed just nearby the dead sea.
Now the question was being raised, by what name or idea hell was being talked about in the Old Testament from the very first. It is thought, for example, and it follows logically, that the sacrifices of the Israelites in the valley of Hinnom was only a picture and type of hell after the Babylonian Captivity. But how was it represented before that time?
Now this is where it becomes very interesting. Let me just be brief here and then I will quote the texts and arguments, so you can read them yourselves and come to your own conclusions.
So, the author gives the suggestion that before the Babylonian Captivity, and indeed from the very first, the most ancient times, hell was known as the place where the Rephaim reside. And he bases his argument in the way that the Septuagint translators translated this and similar terms. You see, the translators of the Septuagint translated more than one word as Giants. They translated at least three words as Giants, which are Rephaim, Nephilim and Gibborim. And this connection or interpretation of the Septuagint translators we find in our own bibles aswell, because there, in the Hebrew, the Rephaim, Nephilim and Gibborim are directly related to one another, they seem to comprise one group, but maybe from slightly different angles or perspectives. Let me prove this very fast and then I move on:
The Emim formerly lived there, a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim. Like the Anakim they are also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim. (Dt 2:10–11.)
Here we see that the Anakim are counted as Rephaim.
And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them. (Nu 13:33.)
Here we see that the Anakim (the sons of Anak) come from the Nephilim.
So that's the first connection, Rephaim are closely related to Nephilim. And then the Gibborim, to conclude the connection of the three groups:
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. (Ge 6:4.)
Here the Nephilim are being defined as the "mighty men", which in the Hebrew is Gibborim.
So there you have the connection of the three groups, and, accordingly, the Septuagint translators translate each of the terms as Giants.
Now, we, or, in our bibles, oftentimes when the term Rephaim appears in the Hebrew, it is translated as shades or ghosts, sometimes dead, meaning, the departed souls in Sheol. This the author also recognizes. But he suggests that this is a wrong translation, and credits the Septuagint translators with better insight into these things, by not translating it as shades. Let me give you one example, it's Proverbs Chapter 21 Verse 16:
One who wanders from the way of good sense
will rest in the assembly of the dead. [Hebrew: Rephaim]
So then here is where it becomes really interesting: our author, as I said, suggests that we should rather (to keep faithful to the underlying text) keep the term Rephaim, rather than dead (or shades, ghosts), so that it reads, as other places too, that he who wanders from the way of good sense, should rest in the assembly of the Rephaim. He keeps them, the Rephaim, company. But what does that mean? Well, here comes the deal: according to our author, the Rephaim (which the Septuagint, together with the terms Nephilim and Gibborim, translates as "Giants") were these mighty, wicked men of renown, from Genesis 6, because of whom the flood came upon the world. And because there was such a huge amount of them which was swept away at once, therefore, when the Bible of the Old Testament later speaks of wicked men going to the grave, it terms it by "going to the assembly of the Rephaim", because they rest there where wicked men will go after death.
Now, I don't know about you, but I found this absolutely fascinating, and I have never heard that theory and explanation before. Just as the Holy Spirit picks up the story of Sodom and Gomorra when describing the Lake of Fire, and just as he picks up the Valley of Hinnom when describing the Gehenna where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched, so in the same way he first of all picked up the story of the Giants (Rephaim, Nephilim, Gibborim) before the flood, when describing the most ancient phrase of the place of the damned in the Old Testament. And mind you, these Giants have nothing to do with physical size, but the term is applied to the mighty men of old, men of renown; renown and grand for their wickedness. Nimrod is being called a Giant in the Septuagint. The greek "Gigantes" also doesn't seem have that connotation of being enormous in size, but could simply mean "earth-born". Google it. So then, maybe only later, because some wicked earth-born heroes of the ancient mythologies just happen to be also enormous in size, then, by this circumstance, the term (Gigantes) by which these wicked heroes were being called, though originally only denoting their being born from earth, so a new meaning emerged, which also denoted their enormous size.
I found all this when I was reading a puritan divine, Thomas Goodwin, and I will now quote two short texts of his about that. But this idea or discovery isn't his own, but he found it when reading Joseph Mede, another biblical scholar. So these are two godly men. I will also link the whole argument by Mede himself.
I hope someone can benefit and maybe discuss this theory. To me this is fresh air in the midst of all this Michael Heiser stuff that is currently running around.
Kind regards and God bless.
Last edited:
