No Answers (Lost Tribes Topic)

[tim_from_pa]

This post is mainly for folks on this forum, Kriss, Denver, Whirlwind, and others that believe in the lost tribes, Britain, parts of Europe and the United States. I must confess, I sometimes grow horns and email ministries that bash lost tribe teaching. I emailed another one today and told them their article basically stinks.For the critics out there, I have yet to hear any explanation to Genesis 35:11 and Genesis 48:19 that make sense other than what lost tribes teaching says. They say we believe fanciful tales, but when I hear their explanations of these verses, their answers are obviously made up from their own interpretation (easily disproved). Basically, what I encountered boils down to these explanations:1) "Many nations" is spiritualized to mean Christians from all over the world (and they often misquote Romans 4:17) But it is not proper exegesis to interpret the "nations" part spiritually and to apply the prophecy of Messiah physically to the tribe of Judah. If Jesus had to come physically from Judah, then the same promises that promised many nations to the tribe of Joseph must also take place thru his descendants physically. To add further proof of this, Jacob's seed was promised land in Canaan. Therefore, this has political ramifications, not just spiritual.2) They say that many nations was fulfilled in Abraham's sons Ishmael (e.g. Arabs), or Isaac's son Esau (Edom), etc. But these are NOT of the promised lineage. The severe problem with this interpretation is that it does not regard the same promises of many nations to Jacob, and then finally to the "Jewish" tribe of Joseph. If Joseph was just another Jewish tribe, when did the Jews ever become a multitude of nations?3) On occasion, we hear them say It did not happen yet. They push the promises to the future millennium which seems to be a safe haven as to explaining why this did not occur. But there is a problem with that. Ezekiel 37 says that the two sticks of Judah and Joseph will be reunited, and the birthright-scepter distinction merged into one nation again. They would not become many nations AFTER God reunited them again as one people. I supposed they could still colonize, but wherever they go, they would be recognized as the same people because God in His word says they will be one nation again (not separate) and therefore when the millennium occurs, the promise of many nations must have already been fulfilled in the past.I think I covered all their impotent (yes, that's impotent, not important!) explanations they try to pull off. Or, to put it another way, their explanations just do not stand to the test!

I was thinking of offering $10G to anyone who could explain those verses apart from British-Israel teaching, and I need not worry about losing the money, either. There will be plenty of interest growing until I retire about 15 years from now.

 

[whirlwind]

(tim_from_pa;33027)
This post is mainly for folks on this forum, Kriss, Denver, Whirlwind, and others that believe in the lost tribes, Britain, parts of Europe and the United States.
You have used some very valid arguments....consider them copied and in my war chest for future battles........Whirlwind

 

[Job one]

(tim_from_pa;33027)
This post is mainly for folks on this forum, Kriss, Denver, Whirlwind, and others that believe in the lost tribes, Britain, parts of Europe and the United States. I must confess, I sometimes grow horns and email ministries that bash lost tribe teaching. I emailed another one today and told them their article basically stinks.For the critics out there, I have yet to hear any explanation to Genesis 35:11 and Genesis 48:19 that make sense other than what lost tribes teaching says. They say we believe fanciful tales, but when I hear their explanations of these verses, their answers are obviously made up from their own interpretation (easily disproved). Basically, what I encountered boils down to these explanations:1) "Many nations" is spiritualized to mean Christians from all over the world (and they often misquote Romans 4:17) But it is not proper exegesis to interpret the "nations" part spiritually and to apply the prophecy of Messiah physically to the tribe of Judah. If Jesus had to come physically from Judah, then the same promises that promised many nations to the tribe of Joseph must also take place thru his descendants physically. To add further proof of this, Jacob's seed was promised land in Canaan. Therefore, this has political ramifications, not just spiritual.2) They say that many nations was fulfilled in Abraham's sons Ishmael (e.g. Arabs), or Isaac's son Esau (Edom), etc. But these are NOT of the promised lineage. The severe problem with this interpretation is that it does not regard the same promises of many nations to Jacob, and then finally to the "Jewish" tribe of Joseph. If Joseph was just another Jewish tribe, when did the Jews ever become a multitude of nations?3) On occasion, we hear them say It did not happen yet. They push the promises to the future millennium which seems to be a safe haven as to explaining why this did not occur. But there is a problem with that. Ezekiel 37 says that the two sticks of Judah and Joseph will be reunited, and the birthright-scepter distinction merged into one nation again. They would not become many nations AFTER God reunited them again as one people. I supposed they could still colonize, but wherever they go, they would be recognized as the same people because God in His word says they will be one nation again (not separate) and therefore when the millennium occurs, the promise of many nations must have already been fulfilled in the past.I think I covered all their impotent (yes, that's impotent, not important!) explanations they try to pull off. Or, to put it another way, their explanations just do not stand to the test!

I was thinking of offering $10G to anyone who could explain those verses apart from British-Israel teaching, and I need not worry about losing the money, either. There will be plenty of interest growing until I retire about 15 years from now.
Yes, I have a far more complete answer for you. But first, could you explain your understanding of Ezekiel 37 and what is meant by the stick of Judah and the stick of Joseph?

 

[tim_from_pa]

Yes, I have a far more complete answer for you. But first, could you explain your understanding of Ezekiel 37 and what is meant by the stick of Judah and the stick of Joseph?
Ezekiel 37 did not happen yet. This is an end-time regathering of the two houses: one of Judah and one of Joseph (and the tribes affiliated with each of them). Some think this happened already. No, the prophecy in Zechariah 11:10-14 regarding the Lord being priced at 30 pieces of silver then shows the brotherhood between the house of Israel and Judah was broken AFTER Christ was betrayed (Thus we had the breaking between Judaism of the house of Judah and Christianity which the house of Israel embraced later). The return from the Babylonian captivity happened BEFORE this prophecy takes place. In addition, the promises in Ezekiel 37 is far too glorious for anything like that to have happened yet (ie. the promise of a Davidic King---- in Luke it says that Christ will one day be over ALL the house of Jacob). Since it did not happen yet, we can safely assume that the both houses are separated today yet and this is the time that Israel (the birthright people) will fulfill their destiny of becoming many nations, as a light to the world bringing the gospel before being rejoined again as Ezekiel 37 states.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Here's a message from the brit-am site regarding the two sticks. This Jewish man believes that the lost tribes are in Britain, Europe and America. Like most of the Jews, they are awaiting their ten-tribed brethren to return, although not all Jews believe they are where I do. However, they do generally believe in the lost tribes existing somewhere as this is a historical fact.Someone crafted this stick and I thought I was pretty cool.Ezekiel sticks