No Cross of our own, then no Cross of Christ for us

[robert derrick]

Salvation and justification by Christ is cross-based, both His and ours together: He did the work for forgiveness of sins on His cross, and we must do the work for repentance of sinning on our cross.

If we are not doing our work of faith on our cross, His work of salvation on His cross is made of none effect to us.

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

The cross of Christ can be made of none effect for believers, that do not take up their own cross to crucify our old lives of sinning.

Jesus was speaking to His believing disciples, not to the unbelieving Jews, when He said to them: Now that we believe, we must now also take up our own cross to follow Him.

If we are still sinning with works of the flesh, we have not crucified our old man, and we are therefore not following Jesus nor walking with Him, and His cross is made of none effect to us.

Without our own cross being borne by us, there is no cross of Christ for us.

 

[robert derrick]

Those who imagine they are piggy backing on Jesus' cross, so that He did all the work that we must do, have no cross of Christ at all, but only tread upon His blood and despise the work of Grace to be crucified unto the sins of the world.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

We are not forgiven by His blood, so long as His blood has not yet washed away our sinning: His cross is made of none effect to sinners and trespassers against the cross.

Only until our own flesh and blood is on our cross, we have no blood of Jesus forgiving and washing away our past sins.

Our blood must accompany His blood, else we have no blood in the game, neither His nor ours.

 

[mailmandan]

Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Salvation and justification by Christ is cross-based, both His and ours together: He did the work for forgiveness of sins on His cross, and we must do the work for repentance of sinning on our cross.

If we are not doing our work of faith on our cross, His work of salvation on His cross is made of none effect to us.

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

The cross of Christ can be made of none effect for believers, that do not take up their own cross to crucify our old lives of sinning.

Jesus was speaking to His believing disciples, not to the unbelieving Jews, when He said to them: Now that we believe, we must now also take up our own cross to follow Him.

If we are still sinning with works of the flesh, we have not crucified our old man, and we are therefore not following Jesus nor walking with Him, and His cross is made of none effect to us.

Without our own cross being borne by us, there is no cross of Christ for us.

What is the cross to you Robert?

 

[robert derrick]

What is the cross to you Robert?

Our cross we take up is to crucify our old life of sinning, which is called the old man of sin, which is the dead soul of man sinning against Christ, and separated from His living Spirit.

Jesus took up His own cross, which we can't take up. We must take up our own cross for His sake, before He can resurrect our souls to live again, by dwelling within our hearts.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Our cross we take up is to crucify our old life of sinning, which is called the old man of sin, which is the dead soul of man sinning against Christ, and separated from His living Spirit.

Jesus took up His own cross, which we can't take up. We must take up our own cross for His sake, before He can resurrect our souls to live again, by dwelling within our hearts.

I agree, but would simplify to a bit to simply define is as the very verse it is found in defines it. From this point on, do not live for ourselves, and start obeying the law of the Christ. I might note as well concerning your second statement that born again Christians are baptized into his death sir.
(Romans 6:3-5) . . .do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 So we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in a newness of life. 5 If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.
So in that aspect they do take up his stauros.

 

[robert derrick]

I agree, but would simplify to a bit to simply define is as the very verse it is found in defines it. From this point on, do not live for ourselves, and start obeying the law of the Christ. I might note as well concerning your second statement that born again Christians are baptized into his death sir.
(Romans 6:3-5) . . .do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 So we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in a newness of life. 5 If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.
So in that aspect they do take up his stauros.

Baptized into His death is ceasing from sin, since dead bodies can no more sin.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Baptized into His death is ceasing from sin, since dead bodies can no more sin.

All Christians continue to sin Rob, too bad we don't live in the same area, I would like to spend a day with you and someone who you believe does not sin, and I would bring it to your attention when they do.

 

[robert derrick]

All Christians continue to sin Rob, too bad we don't live in the same area, I would like to spend a day with you and someone who you believe does not sin, and I would bring it to your attention when they do.

Don't need anyone else there. I have no problem with others judging my actions.

Solong as they're not judgment according to their own law, and not that of Christ.

It's foolish to point to others, when it will only be each of us alone judged by Christ.

You say you still sin, and I say I am not sinning. I completely believe you, and you don't want to believe me, because you don't want to know someone else is not sinning like you.

Safety in numbers does not work with God.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Don't need anyone else there. I have no problem with others judging my actions.

Solong as they're not judgment according to their own law, and not that of Christ.

It's foolish to point to others, when it will only be each of us alone judged by Christ.

You say you still sin, and I say I am not sinning. I completely believe you, and you don't want to believe me, because you don't want to know someone else is not sinning like you.

Safety in numbers does not work with God.

That is not exactly why I don't believe you Rob, and perhaps you even believe that sir, but I have to side with God on that one, I never argue with what is in the Bible, if it says it, I believe it, discounting interpretations of what it says however. When it straightforwardly states we all sin, who am I to tell God He is wrong, unless of course He didn't author that part of the Bible, and if that is true, what is the point?

 

[robert derrick]

When it straightforwardly states we all sin,

Your gospel is as false as your created christ.

The world shall sin, but with the righteous, it is only possible that they may sin, not will sin.

Your christ, gospel, and sinning is all willingly your own, and you are welcome to it.

I have nothing to do with it, nor do I desire to.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Your gospel is as false as your created christ.

The world shall sin, but with the righteous, it is only possible that they may sin, not will sin.

Your christ, gospel, and sinning is all willingly your own, and you are welcome to it.

I have nothing to do with it, nor do I desire to.

Wouldn't it be better to simply make full proof of thy ministry 2 Tim 4:5 and simply show someone other than Jesus who has never sinned? You sure would shut me up Rob.

 

[robert derrick]

Wouldn't it be better to simply make full proof of thy ministry 2 Tim 4:5 and simply show someone other than Jesus who has never sinned? You sure would shut me up Rob.

Well, first you need to stop corrupting what others say.

No one is saying we never sinned. Only we are not sinning now.

Hey. You're a sinner by willful choice, and refuse to believe it is possible to do otherwise, and even go so far as to accuse all others of being like yourself, in order to do so.

Why would anyone argue with that? What Scripture would convince you otherwise?

None. Therefore, it is foolish to try.

Continue sinning all you like. It matters nothing to me.

As well as your presumptions about everyone else and me.

Have a happy and sinning day.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well, first you need to stop corrupting what others say.

No one is saying we never sinned. Only we are not sinning now.

Hey. You're a sinner by willful choice, and refuse to believe it is possible to do otherwise, and even go so far as to accuse all others of being like yourself, in order to do so.

Why would anyone argue with that? What Scripture would convince you otherwise?

None. Therefore, it is foolish to try.

Continue sinning all you like. It matters nothing to me.

As well as your presumptions about everyone else and me.

Have a happy and sinning day.

Like I said sir, if I was with you one day, I would be able to point out where you sinned I quite imagine. I actually wonder if anyone can make it through a whole day without sinning.