It is informative, you probably been believing Jn 3:16 is an invitation, but it isnt
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
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The saved new man believes, he is active in believing. The inability of Jn 6:44 is in regards to man by nature, dead in sin.
Nothing about freewill here, in fact, its about Christs will being done, He saves all men He died for.
The Father does the drawing. To draw is equivalent to taking for oneself, choosing, dragging. All who are drawn to Christ by the Father, are the ones who are saved by grace through faith and will be raised to eternal life at the last day. No man will believe and receive Christ apart from God working in them through the power of the Gospel and Spirit of Christ.
John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Of course, whosoever is drawn to Christ through the power of God believe and receive Christ for everlasting life. Of course, we actively repent, believe and turn to Christ, not by free will, but according to the power of God working in us.
@rwb
Correct, in fact greek scholars feel life draw ἕλκω comes from a word or is associated with a word that means to choose,
The word haireó: To take, to choose, to prefer
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
KJV: draw
NASB: dragged, drew, drag, draw, draws, haul
Word Origin: [probably akin to G138 (αἱρέομαι - choose)]
So I believe the ones the Father draws to the Son are His elect that He gives to the Son Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Correct, in fact greek scholars feel life draw ἕλκω comes from a word or is associated with a word that means to choose,
The word haireó: To take, to choose, to prefer
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
KJV: draw
NASB: dragged, drew, drag, draw, draws, haul
Word Origin: [probably akin to G138 (αἱρέομαι - choose)]
So I believe the ones the Father draws to the Son are His elect that He gives to the Son Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Man by nature cant by his own freewill ability come to Christ because all men by nature are spiritually dead in [in the sphere of] trespasses and sins. Speaking of Gods elect Paul writes of them by nature Eph 2:1-3
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
The word dead here nekros means:
adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
The lifeless here by nature is lifeless spiritually. Spiritually to God and things of God man naturally is liken to a dead lifeless corpse.
Jesus used this same word here Matt 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Now the dead was to bury the dead. The Spiritually dead person was to bury the physically dead person. Yet the Spiritually dead person wasn't dead physically was he ? Did you know that one can be dead, lifeless and yet be physically live and active ?
Now in order for a man to come to Christ he must first have life, no not physical life but spiritual life which not even the elect have by nature. 2
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
The word dead here nekros means:
adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
The lifeless here by nature is lifeless spiritually. Spiritually to God and things of God man naturally is liken to a dead lifeless corpse.
Jesus used this same word here Matt 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Now the dead was to bury the dead. The Spiritually dead person was to bury the physically dead person. Yet the Spiritually dead person wasn't dead physically was he ? Did you know that one can be dead, lifeless and yet be physically live and active ?
Now in order for a man to come to Christ he must first have life, no not physical life but spiritual life which not even the elect have by nature. 2
The man or women who comes to Christ, doesn't come by their own freewill ability, because naturally man is spiritually dead and without any spiritual life and ability. However when the Father draws one to Christ, He begins by giving them life, spiritual life. The drawing indicates life has been given.
See coming denotes motion and motion denotes living'
The word draw denotes to impel to impart motion to, which motion is life, spiritual life
See coming denotes motion and motion denotes living'
The word draw denotes to impel to impart motion to, which motion is life, spiritual life
In which case you'd have to conclude universal salvation to all, as Jesus said that if He were lifted up, that is, crucified, that He would draw all men to Himself. So your options are threefold. 1, that He flat out didn't mean what He said, 2, that all will be saved, or 3, that drawing initiates a process that does not always lead to salvation. Of course, #3 is the answer that fits with all the Scriptures.
Much love!
By the same token, the Bible states that Jesus is the true light coming into the world, enlightening every man. Just as Paul wrote to Titus, the grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men.
You are leaving something major out of your conclusions.
Much love!
This directly contradicts Scripture, which tells us that to those who received Jesus, even believing into His Name, to these God have the right to become children of God, born of Him. The verb "born" is Passive Voice, which shows it was done to us. We do not "rebirth" ourselves, it is done to us, expressed by a Passive Voice verb.
Receive, and believe, on the other hand, are active voice verbs, showing we do the action. Not that we do the action because God is acting within us. That would be Passive Voice, just like "born". But it's not. These are active voice, and that is specific and particular.
This is what the passage says. Do you believe it as written?
Much love!
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
The suggestion that God would create souls to go to the lake of fire without a chance to escape by means of redemption is so unbiblical on so many levels.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.” (2Sa 14:14, KJV)
In order for man to come to Christ he must be given motion, life, this comes by quickening. All who come to Christ have been quickened out of a dead spiritual state. Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
In the original the word quickened isnt there, its derived from verse 5 and its the word suzóopoieó and means:
to make alive together with
Usage: I make alive together with.
I make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken.
This causing to live is giving motion to, which is the impelling aspect of drawing Jn 6:44 and 12:32
So quickening and drawing can be used interchangeably. 2
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
In the original the word quickened isnt there, its derived from verse 5 and its the word suzóopoieó and means:
to make alive together with
Usage: I make alive together with.
I make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken.
This causing to live is giving motion to, which is the impelling aspect of drawing Jn 6:44 and 12:32
So quickening and drawing can be used interchangeably. 2
No the drawing is limited to all the elect universally, see people in those days thought salvation through Messiah was strictly for tje jews in israel.
Its limited to the elect, every elect person from whatever nation, Jesus will regenerate and give true spiritual light. True Light is spiritual friend
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
These are they WHO Recieve the word with joy and for a time endure ..................
Many be called all right
The invitation is open to all .
But many reject .
So allow me some parting words left to us near the very end of revelation .
AND LET WHO SO EVER WILL COME and DRINK of the waters of life freely .
NOW THAT IS AN INVITATION . Let who so ever WILL COME .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
JESUS IS THE TRUE LIGHT .
And mark , mark my next words
HIS LIGHT dont preach darkness and or a lie .
Let us remember this the next time someone tries to stand and use grace
as a means that allows UNBELEIVERS to REMAIN IN UNBELEIF and behaves and acts as though THIS IS SOMEHOW
the grace of GOD .
Because No grace of GOD would ever have denied THE SON , WHO IS THE TRUTH and THE WAY
TO THE FATHER . no beleif in him incurs ONLY the wrath of GOD upon ones soul . AND that my friend
IS a fact . And NO grace of GOD would ever have turned JESUS into the accepter of ANY SINS . so lets keep that in mind too .
The invitation is to them already spiritually alive and have a spiritual thirst, the blessed/saved ones. Matt 5:6
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
man doesnt have a will for spiritual water when he is dead in sin
bdavidc
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A person is called by God, but they can still say “no.” That’s why Jesus said in John 5:40, “And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.” They could have come; they were called to come, but they refused. When someone does believe, all the glory goes to God’s power and mercy. When someone refuses, the guilt is fully theirs.
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