Omniscient Planner

[Netchaplain]

It’s not like when Adam and Eve sinned God had to go to a plan B. Was it not part of His plan? Isn’t He omniscient and knew what they would do? How would they have ever known what good and evil is apart from experiencing the sin? It’s my belief that He wanted us to be like Him in knowing what good and evil is. Wasn’t it when they sinned that they could now know what good and evil was (Gen 3:22)? Could it be that since God knew what they would do, there must be a good reason why He allowed it!

It’s my conjecture that, after knowing what evil is, they could know what God’s holiness is; and I don’t think they would ever have known otherwise. They knew what right and wrong were via His command (Gen 2:16, 3:11, 17), but were oblivious to the meaning and understanding of good and evil. Surely knowing good and evil is a far greater knowledge than just knowing right and wrong. I believe He allows us to endure our evil nature in order that we would understand the need for the indwelling of His blessed Son! I also believe God’s intention is to be in us, not just with us; and you can’t get any closer that that!
NC

 

[Randy Kluth]

It’s not like when Adam and Eve sinned God had to go to a plan B. Was it not part of His plan? Isn’t He omniscient and knew what they would do?

Often I hear that God can do anything. Does that mean that we can base what He can do on false premises? No.

For example, we posit that God can do anything. Therefore, He can create a rock so big that He Himself cannot lift it.

But that is illogical and based on a false premise, that a rock is even defined by God, the Creator, as something that can be bigger than He, as God, is. Obviously, God does not define omnipotent rocks!

So now, God doesn't create knowledge of things that contradict the way He defines them. He said He created things in perfection, and wished for Man not to sin. Therefore, He did not invent the foreknowledge that Man must sin, the Devil must rebel, the world must end up in turmoil, etc. The fact we cannot understand these things does not mean we must defend God and things we just don't understand.

How would they have ever known what good and evil is apart from experiencing the sin?

Nothing indicates Man had to know sin in order to know good. What he didn't know, initially, is both good and *evil!* It is the "evil" side of things that he did not know. Certainly he knew that God had created him to be good. He did not have to know Sin in order to appreciate the goodness of God.

Does one have to know darkness in order to see light? No. Light in itself is revelatory, without the necessity of the absence of light.

It’s my belief that He wanted us to be like Him in knowing what good and evil is.

No, God did not want us to know and experience evil. Some things are just too great for our minds to fully comprehend. I just go with Scripture.

 

[Netchaplain]

He said He created things in perfection, and wished for Man not to sin.

Not to challenge your opinion, but God couldn't wish them not to sin when He knew they would (unless you mean something else). Moses wrote that all was good, and I'm not sure that means perfection, because Adam and Eve had the sin of pride before sinning: Eve saw that the tree was "to be desired to make one wise" (Gen 3:6).

"Nothing indicates Man had to know sin in order to know good.

The "good" from the Tree of Knowledge was like the "evil" from it. They knew all that God did was good, but I think the good from the Tree involved, not just all that God said was good, but about all things that are good. They definitely could not know evil in the sense it is in from the Tree, apart from sinning (Gen 3:7). He wanted them to know what evil is, but they did not know what was involved until the sin.

Just my opinions Brother, and thanks for your replies! God bless!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Not to challenge your opinion, but God couldn't wish them not to sin when He knew they would (unless you mean something else). Moses wrote that all was good, and I'm not sure that means perfection, because Adam and Eve had the sin of pride before sinning: Eve saw that the tree was "to be desired to make one wise" (Gen 3:6).

No, that's okay--you can challenge my opinions. They're just opinions.

What I was saying was that God's original intent seemed to be that Man *not sin.* Now, if God actually "knew" that Man would sin regardless, then His intent itself is suspect, as I see it. How can God "intend" something if it isn't realistic?

So I prefer to see it that Man could've avoided sinning altogether, conforming to God's original intention. The problem often is that we don't see God "big enough." We think He is too small to enable free will for Men and Angels in the universe. If He is God, theoretically He could not allow any incident in the universe to happen without His willing it to be exactly as it has turned out.

But this is called "Fatalism," or "Determinism." Without Free Will Man's choices are purely illusory. And this would, it seems, make a mockery for anything God ever asked Man to do, because "it had to happen the way it did," regardless.

So I prefer to "elevate God's size," so to speak, to enable Him to create a world in which He does not determine Man's choices--where God creates a sort of box in which more than a single choice can be made without taking place outside of God's overall will. That is, His will allows for human choice, and even with bad choices conforms to some sort of God's secondary will, still being controlled by His Divine boundaries.

The "good" from the Tree of Knowledge was like the "evil" from it. They knew all that God did was good, but I think the good from the Tree involved, not just all that God said was good, but about all things that are good. They definitely could not know evil in the sense it is in from the Tree, apart from sinning (Gen 3:7). He wanted them to know what evil is, but they did not know what was involved until the sin.

Just my opinions Brother, and thanks for your replies! God bless!

Yes, same to you. A lot of this is theory. Obviously, I've spent a lot of time thinking about it. In particular, I used to have an interest in philosophy, which has undoubtedly colored my point of view.

The primary things we most certainly agree on, which is our love for God and for one another. And we love the words of God, both to our hearts and in the Scriptures!