Our Destiny and our Privilege:

[Keraz]

This old world staggers along, from disaster to crisis, wars, earthquakes, storms, droughts, all now fairly normal occurrences. But God’s plans will soon come to fruition. The shocking and earth shattering Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster; will set the scene for a sequence of events, culminating in the Lord Jesus’ glorious Return. This event will constitute the Lord’s judgement on Judah [the current inhabitants of Israel] and all the surrounding nations. Zephaniah 2:1-5

THEN, the entire holy Land will be regenerated and His people, the righteous Christian Israelites of God will come to live there, in peace and security. They will rebuild the Temple and prepare for the eventual Return of Jesus.

The nations:
Ezekiel 36:7 Therefore, says the Lord, the nations round about Israel will endure rebuke. Jeremiah 10:18, Romans 1:18, [the coming Day of the Lord’s wrath, resulting in the judgement of ‘the evil neighbours’. Jeremiah 12:14]

The Jews:
Jeremiah 7:20 I will pour out My anger on Judah, on man and beast, trees and crops – it will be unquenched. [The Land, virtually wiped bare] Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 29:1-4.

But the Lord says: only a short while, before He will regenerate it:

Ezekiel 36:8 But you, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and yield fruit for My people, Israel, for their homecoming is near. [My people, all faithful Christians, gathered, judged and settled into all of the Promised Land. Ezekiel 20:34-35]

Ezekiel 16:52 It is you, Judah, that must bear the humiliation – for your sins have pleaded your sisters cause, your conduct is so much more abominable than theirs, that they appear innocent in comparison. Now you must bear your shame.
Ezekiel 16:53 I shall restore the fortunes of your sisters, Sodom and Samaria, [the 10 northern tribes of Israel] and yours [the House of Judah] too at the same time.
Ezekiel 16:55 When your sisters become what they were of old, then your daughters will be restored likewise.
Ezekiel 16:63 You [Judah] will remember your conduct and be so ashamed and humiliated that you will never open your mouth again, once I have pardoned you.

Isaiah 40:1-5 Comfort My people, their term of bondage served – penalty paid.
Clear a road through the desert for the Lord, level the ground. Isaiah 40:31 Those who look to the Lord, will gain new strength…

Isaiah 43:19 I am about to do something new. Through the wilderness I will make a way.

Micah 2:12-13 I shall assemble you, the whole House of Israel [all 12 tribes, plus those grafted in] herded like sheep. Now; every faithful Christian person.
Micah 4:6 I shall gather and restore the lost as a remnant, turned into a mighty nation.

Hosea 2:14-23 But now, I shall woo My people and lead them into the wilderness. I shall speak words of encouragement to them. I shall betroth you to Myself forever. Israel, [the Israelites of God, Galatians 6:16] will be My new sowing in the Land. I say- you are My people and they will say- you are our God. Romans 9:24-26

Isaiah 32:14-18 Houses are forsaken and streets deserted – the Land a waste to the delight of the donkeys and flocks.
Until the Spirit from on High is poured upon us, and then the wilderness will become garden land.
Justice and righteousness will prevail throughout the Land. My people will live peacefully, in secure homes.

Isaiah 32:19-20 Despite damage to vegetation and buildings, you will be blessed with ample water, crops and grazing land.

Isaiah 35:1-10 Let the wilderness be glad, the desert rejoice and flower. The Land will again show the glory of Lebanon, Carmel and Sharon, these will see the glory of the Lord.
Strengthen yourselves, say to those with fearful hearts- be strong. For your God comes to save you, with His vengeance and retribution. [Against your enemies]

Then the blind will see, the deaf hear, all disabilities cured. Water will flow in the desert, where jackals once roamed.
A highway will appear – called the way of Holiness. No unclean person will pass on it. Wicked fools cannot trespass on it. No dangerous beast will come there. But, by that way the Lords redeemed will return.

The Lords people, set free will come back and enter the Land with shouts of joy and triumph. Gladness and joy will come upon them – All suffering and sorrow will flee away.
Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged

 

[Keraz]

Our Hope and our Destiny:

The Prophetic Word tells us how the Lord will save and protect His people during His terrible Day of wrath, the soon to happen Sixth Seal judgement of the nations.
Then we will be gathered and will migrate into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26, are some of the best prophesies about this.

We Christians are the Lord's people, His chosen; John 15:18, 1 Peter 2:8-10, and we are the people; nation, who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43.

We will, in the holy Land be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Acts 13:47, Ezekiel 39:27
Basically there is no need for anyone, other than the 2 Witnesses to go to heaven, Revelation 11:12, and they do not stay there, as Jesus Returns just then and they are resurrected along with all the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4

The whole idea of a rapture removal of Christians to heaven, is not part of God's plan for His people. Therefore, a body change is not necessary or logical, before the final wrap up after the Millennium and only then will all those whose names are written in the Book of Life, receive immortality and be with God for Eternity, when God and therefore heaven will be on earth. Revelation 21:1-4

 

[face2face]

The whole idea of a rapture removal of Christians to heaven, is not part of God's plan for His people. Therefore, a body change is not necessary or logical, before the final wrap up after the Millennium and only then will all those whose names are written in the Book of Life, receive immortality and be with God for Eternity, when God and therefore heaven will be on earth. Revelation 21:1-4

So you dont believe in the immortal soul Keraz?

 

[Keraz]

So you dont believe in the immortal soul Keraz?

I can't fathom how you get that from what I wrote.
We Christians have the Promise of Jesus: of Eternal life, John 3:16

We will receive it when everyone who has ever lived; stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 AFTER the Millennium.
All those people whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be made immortal and will then go into Eternity with God.

 

[face2face]

I can't fathom how you get that from what I wrote.

The rest is just your spiritualising the OT prophecies...we have gone down the rabbit hole before Keraz and you didn't come out of that experience all that well.

We Christians have the Promise of Jesus: of Eternal life, John 3:16

Interesting - you avoid the question! You can't have immortality now if as you say its promised!

We will receive it when everyone who has ever lived; stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

Only the responsible are judged.

AFTER the Millennium.

One before and another at the end!

All those people whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be made immortal and will then go into Eternity with God.

God will dwell with man on Earth.

 

[Keraz]

The rest is just your spiritualising the OT prophecies

I do not Spiritualize any Prophecy that can be literally fulfilled.
It seems that it is you who does that.

Interesting - you avoid the question! You can't have immortality now if as you say its promised!

Right; no one gets immortality until the Great White Throne Judgment. Even Job and David wait in their graves for that Day, Job 14:12-15, Acts 13:36

One before and another at the end!

Yes, when Jesus Returns, He will judge the nations. Matthew 25:31-33.
But after the Millennium, every individual will stand before God. Two Judgments; one by Jesus for the nations and the final Judgment after Jesus' thousand year reign on earth, where those whose names are Written in the Book of Life will receive immortality and those whose names are not found, will be annihilated and remembered no more.

God will dwell with man on Earth.

Yes; on the new earth, Revelation 21 to 22

 

[face2face]

Micah 4:6 I shall gather and restore the lost as a remnant, turned into a mighty nation.

That's the problem with running so many different prophicies together, you really need to appreciate precisely what they are teaching in their own context.

Micah 4:6

Who is the focus?
When will this happen?
Where will this happen?

You don't need to leave this prophecy to know the answers.

F2F

 

[Keraz]

Micah 4:6

Who is the focus?
When will this happen?
Where will this happen?

Micah 4:6 refers to the Christian peoples, from every tribe, race, nation and language.
However; it will be that the majority actually are descendants of Jacob.

1/ The focus is how God finally gets what He always wanted, but has never yet had; that is: a people in all of the holy Land; who love Him and keep the Commandments,

2/ I believe it will happen quite soon. The forthcoming Sixth Seal worldwide disaster will prepare the Land for our arrival.

3/ In the entire area given to Abraham, so long ago, Genesis 15:18

 

[face2face]

While you are working on that lets take a look at Micah 4:1

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the amountain of the house of the Lord shall be bestablished in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Mount Zion is where the temple, the Lord's house, stood in the past and will stand in the future (Ezek 40 -- 43). Some believe this Temple has been abolished due to Israels sin. In the future, Mount Zion would become the chief of all the mountains on earth, rising above all other hills in its importance (Read Gen 12:3 & Zech 8:3). I see not just Christians but people from all parts of the earth migrating to it. This is quite a contrast from what Micah predicted about the immediate future of Jerusalem and the temple: its destruction and abandonment in Mic 3:12.

This is a glorious vision Keraz!

 

[face2face]

@Keraz...did you notice the play on words in verse 1?

"people shall flow unto it!"

Water flows down... but these people will flow UP to God's Temple Mount!

You must admire the way the Word of God is written and only with careful reading can you bring out its wonder.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Keraz....If I can strech that point a little further...we know literal streams of water will flow from this millennial temple (read Ezek 47), but people will stream "to" it!

Picture that in your mind Keraz...water coming down...people flowing up.

Do you know how few Christians actually have such a detailed vision of the Kingdom age...most believe they all go to Heaven, ridiculous! All the detial we need is right in front of us and they are blinded to its glory.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Why do Israels pagan neighbours go up the Lord's Temple year by year?

 

[Keraz]

While you are working on that lets take a look at Micah 4:1

Seens that you need to do a lot of study on what God really wants of us and how it all happens in the end times.
I see in the Similar Threads list just below, that I have posted many threads on the subject of our destiny, where I point out what the Prophets have told us.

I note that you quote Deuteronomy 29:29.
Moses also said:
Deuteronomy 32:1-43 Give ear, you heavens and earth to what I say - the words that I speak. Let my teaching fall like fine rain onto growing plants.
When I proclaim the Creator – the Lord whose ways are just and righteous, you will respond: “Great is our God “

But you are a perverted and crooked generation. Is this how you repay the Lord? You stupid people, He is the one who made you. Remember the old days, your fathers will tell of God’s favour to them.

When the Most High gave each nation it’s heritage and laid the boundaries for each peoples, the Lord took as His share, Israel, His own people. He found them in a desert land, protected and trained them, watched over and led them to a fertile Land. They grew fat and healthy, but then forsook the Lord: their Maker.

The Lord hid His face from them, saying; Let Me see what their end will be, for they are not to be trusted. In My anger, I shall heap disasters upon them. I had resolved to totally destroy them, but I thought that their enemies would take the credit, saying; it was us that defeated Israel.

Israel are a people that lack understanding – if only they realized what their end is to be! They are only defeated because I have handed them over, their enemies are just fools without a Rock like Israel. I, the Lord, have sealed up in My storehouses a reserve of punishment and vengeance for the moment when the foot of your enemies slips, for the Day of their doom is fast approaching.



The Lord will judge His people and have compassion on His servants when He sees that their strength is gone. He will ask; Where are your false gods now? Let them help you.

See, now that I: I am the Lord your God, there is none other.

I swear; As I live forever, when I have sharpened My flashing sword and set My hand to judgement, then I shall punish My adversaries and wreak vengeance on My foes. My sword will devour flesh and spill the blood of the enemy princes.

Verse 22; For fire is set ablaze in My anger, it burns to the depths of hell, it devours the earth and its harvest and its flames reach the roots of the mountains.



Rejoice you heavens, worship Him, for He will avenge the blood of His people. He will punish those who hate Him and will cleanse the Land belonging to His people. Great is our God!
Reference, Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged

From this passage, we see, in verse 35, that the Lord is waiting for His enemies “foot to slip” – in other words, for them to make a mistaken move and then He will act against them. That move will be an attack onto Israel and the Lord will respond with fire from His storehouse, the sun. Isaiah 30:26-30, Deuteronomy 32:22, Malachi 4:1-3

Verse 43- the NIV says; ....He will take vengeance on His enemies and make atonement for His Land and people.

A parallel passage is in Jeremiah 12:14 I shall uproot those evil neighbours who encroach on the Land which I allotted to My people, Israelites, as their holding. Israelites: Now, every true Christian believer in God and Jesus. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:6-8

Psalm 125:3 The rule of the wicked will not remain over the Land allotted to the righteous. Jeremiah 10:18, Hosea 4:3

The Lord hid His Face from them….. Ezekiel 39:25-29 When I bring My people into their heritage……..No longer shall I hide My face from them……Revelation 7:9

 

[face2face]

Why do Israels pagan neighbors go up the Lord's Temple year by year?

Well the reason of course is given in the next verse which is a nice segue dont you think?

@Keraz...your machine gun approach to Bible Study is terrible - stay in the vision and allow it to fully exercise your senses!

and many (not all!) nations shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he (The Lord Jesus Christ) may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem Mic 4:2.

Well firstly we have proved the JW's are wrong in their teaching of Christ ruling from Heaven! That's a disastrous teaching! (@Keiw @Aunty Jane ) Imagine a Kingdom without a King!?

You will see many nations (not all!) will know the superiority of Israel by coming to the millennial Jerusalem to learn the LORD's ways from the Israelites. Now the Saints of the Most High will be there teaching Israel allowing the New Covenant to spread more perfectly throughout the earth, than it is today. Israel will finally fulfill its function as a kingdom of priests by mediating between God and the people of the world.

Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. ' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” 7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the LORD had commanded him to speak. (Exo 19:6).

Unlike the Jews of today and the Jews of Micah's day - Gentile people will want to obey His will. Though some Nations will resist with judgements to come upon those who rebel against the King of the Earth.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

Well the reason of course is given in the next verse which is a nice segue dont you think?

@Keraz...your machine gun approach to Bible Study is terrible - stay in the vision and allow it to fully exercise your senses!

and many (not all!) nations shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he (The Lord Jesus Christ) may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem Mic 4:2.

Well firstly we have proved the JW's are wrong in their teaching of Christ ruling from Heaven! That's a disastrous teaching! (@Keiw @Aunty Jane ) Imagine a Kingdom without a King!?

You will see many nations (not all!) will know the superiority of Israel by coming to the millennial Jerusalem to learn the LORD's ways from the Israelites. Now the Saints of the Most High will be there teaching Israel allowing the New Covenant to spread more perfectly throughout the earth, than it is today. Israel will finally fulfill its function as a kingdom of priests by mediating between God and the people of the world.

Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. ' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” 7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the LORD had commanded him to speak. (Exo 19:6).

Unlike the Jews of today and the Jews of Micah's day - Gentile people will want to obey His will. Though some Nations will resist with judgements to come upon those who rebel against the King of the Earth.

F2F

Christ is ruling in heaven now. Few on earth listen to him. All on earth will listen to him after Rev 20 is done. Gods throne will still be in heaven. Rev 20:3--the tent of God will be with mankind--A tent = a protective covering. The throne remains in heaven. Gods kingdom rule= Gods govt, covering all of creation at that point like a tent.

 

[face2face]

Christ is ruling in heaven now. Few on earth listen to him. All on earth will listen to him after Rev 20 is done. Gods throne will still be in heaven. Rev 20:3--the tent of God will be with mankind--A tent = a protective covering. The throne remains in heaven. Gods kingdom rule= Gods govt, covering all of creation at that point like a tent.

Show this reference of a tent?

 

[Scott Downey]

I do not Spiritualize any Prophecy that can be literally fulfilled.
It seems that it is you who does that.

Right; no one gets immortality until the Great White Throne Judgment. Even Job and David wait in their graves for that Day, Job 14:12-15, Acts 13:36

Yes, when Jesus Returns, He will judge the nations. Matthew 25:31-33.
But after the Millennium, every individual will stand before God. Two Judgments; one by Jesus for the nations and the final Judgment after Jesus' thousand year reign on earth, where those whose names are Written in the Book of Life will receive immortality and those whose names are not found, will be annihilated and remembered no more.

Yes; on the new earth, Revelation 21 to 22

"Right; no one gets immortality until the Great White Throne Judgment. Even Job and David wait in their graves for that Day, Job 14:12-15, Acts 13:36"

If by immortality you mean their new glorified bodies that can no longer die, yes.
But for those who 'die in the Lord', they have spiritual immortality when they believe in Christ.
And when they die, their spirits live with the Lord in Heaven as conscious persons.

John 5

Life and Judgment Are Through the Son​

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
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v25, the dead that are hearing are still living in their physical bodies but are spiritually dead, are those God made alive and gave to them ears to hear what Christ is saying, and they now believe in Christ and have eternal life. This is not the resurrection yet. Recall Christ saying, Let the dead bury the dead, but you come follow me.
We were all once in that dead state, the walking dead. But God showed to us His mercy and so we believed and are saved.

Later when the graves are opened and they come forth to be judged, that is the general resurrection. A resurrection means to embody a spirit to create a soul again. The first hour (time) mentioned is salvation, the second hour (time) mentioned is resurrection and judgement.
Graves is used here to signify they are the buried dead in the tombs dead, in cemeteries, bone yards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

 

[Keraz]

"Right; no one gets immortality until the Great White Throne Judgment. Even Job and David wait in their graves for that Day, Job 14:12-15, Acts 13:36"

If by immortality you mean their new glorified bodies that can no longer die, yes.
But for those who 'die in the Lord', they have spiritual immortality when they believe in Christ.
And when they die, their spirits live with the Lord in Heaven as conscious persons.

John 5

Life and Judgment Are Through the Son​

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
v25, the dead that are hearing are still living in their physical bodies but are spiritually dead, are those God made alive and gave to them ears to hear what Christ is saying, and they now believe in Christ and have eternal life. This is not the resurrection yet. Recall Christ saying, Let the dead bury the dead, but you come follow me.
We were all once in that dead state, the walking dead. But God showed to us His mercy and so we believed and are saved.

Later when the graves are opened and they come forth to be judged, that is the general resurrection. A resurrection means to embody a spirit to create a soul again. The first hour (time) mentioned is salvation, the second hour (time) mentioned is resurrection and judgement.
Graves is used here to signify they are the buried dead in the tombs dead, in cemeteries, bone yards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

I disagree with this.
We Christians have the Promise of Eternal life, but must wait until after the Millennium for it.
No one lives consciously in heaven. Even the GT martyrs souls are kept under the Altar. Rev 6:9-11 They are allowed to cry out at times.

'Glorified bodies' is a fanciful dream of the confused and deceived.

 

[Scott Downey]

I disagree with this.
We Christians have the Promise of Eternal life, but must wait until after the Millennium for it.
No one lives consciously in heaven. Even the GT martyrs souls are kept under the Altar. Rev 6:9-11 They are allowed to cry out at times.

'Glorified bodies' is a fanciful dream of the confused and deceived.

The way Christ said this, it is true...
John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

NOT a promise of eternal life, they have eternal life. Once they believe in Him. He emphatically points to that 4 ways.
1. Most assuredly Christ tells us
2. they have everlasting life
3. will not come into judgement
4. Have passed from death into life.

The conclusion is inescapable

When your doctrine conflicts with Christ, then you have to change because He is always right, and people are often wrong.

 

[Keiw]

Show this reference of a tent?

Revelation 21:3