OUR PATTERN FOR SALVATION

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Doug

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Yes, sorry - I meant Acts 2:38
The only thing I can say is this verse was true, but not in this dispensation.....this verse was commanded to Israel only. Paul never says to be baptized for the remission of sins. It is an error to mix Israel's program with ours.
 

Doug

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He went as directed by God to see the apostles. As a commentary explains:

because of a revelation Attests to Paul’s motivation for traveling to Jerusalem. He was responding to God’s direction, not human invitation. He was concerned with aligning his ministry to the Gentiles with the work of the Jerusalem apostles. In essence, he was not the rogue minister that his accusers claimed he was.
laid out to them Paul explained the gospel he preached to the gentiles so the Jerusalem leaders could give approval of his ministry.
Barry, J. D., Mangum, D., Brown, D. R., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Ritzema, E., … Bomar, D. (2012, 2016). Faithlife Study Bible (Ga 2:2). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press
.

There is no suggestion he was teaching anything different from the apostles.

Two last points
In Galatians 2:2 Paul says THAT GOSPEL not the gospel or their gospel
Galatians 2:7 the gospel of the circumcision / the gospel of the uncircumcision ...the word of makes it two different gospels
 

Mungo

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Romans 5:1 does not say we are justified by anything other than faith.....specifically faith in Christ (Romans 3:22)
That is why you have to take all scripture into account; not just cherry pick one scripture and ignore others.
 

Mungo

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The only thing I can say is this verse was true, but not in this dispensation.....this verse was commanded to Israel only. Paul never says to be baptized for the remission of sins. It is an error to mix Israel's program with ours.

Acts 2:38 doesn't say that what Peter proclaimed was for Israel only.

As I pointed out before "Paul preached baptism for remission (forgiveness) of sins and salvation (Ti 3:5, Acts 22:16, Col 2:11-13)"

There are not two different programs for salvation.
 

Mungo

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Two last points
In Galatians 2:2 Paul says THAT GOSPEL not the gospel or their gospel

No it doesn't
Gal 2:2 "I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain."
The word translated "the" is Strong 3588
Strong's Concordance
ho, hé, to: the
Original Word: ὁ, ἡ, τό
Part of Speech: Definite Article
Transliteration: ho, hé, to
Phonetic Spelling: (ho)
Definition: the
Usage: the, the definite article. (my emboldening)


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3588: ὁ

ὁ, ἡ, τό, originally τος, τῇ, τό (as is evident from the forms τοι, ται for οἱ, αἱ in Homer and the Ionic writings), corresponds to our definite article the (German der, die, das), which is properly a demonstrative pronoun, which we see in its full force in Homer, and of which we find certain indubitable traces also in all kinds of Greek prose, and hence also in the N. T. (my emboldening)


Galatians 2:7 the gospel of the circumcision / the gospel of the uncircumcision ...the word of makes it two different gospels

Gal 2:7 "but on the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised".
TO the uncircumcised, meaning to the gentile nations
To the circumcised, meaning to the Jews. That was Peter's major mission - at least at this stage.

There is only one gospel but taken to different groups.

A point I never get an answer to is, if Paul had a special gospel foir the gentiles why did he always preach is to Jews to start with? And which gospel did he preach to a mixture of Jews and gentiles?
 

Doug

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That is why you have to take all scripture into account; not just cherry pick one scripture and ignore others.
Find in Paul's epistles where he says otherwise.
If you pull scripture from the 4 gospels you can Biblically justify it, but you are pulling scripture meant for Israel alone. In Acts 2:22 Peter is addressing Israel as an example.
 

Doug

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As I pointed out before "Paul preached baptism for remission (forgiveness) of sins and salvation (Ti 3:5, Acts 22:16, Col 2:11-13)"
In regard to Titus 3:5
Water baptism is not in view here....look at Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
The washing is by the word of God
Plus Titus 3:6 says the cleansing is through Christ, not baptism.
 

Doug

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Acts 2:38 doesn't say that what Peter proclaimed was for Israel only.

As I pointed out before "Paul preached baptism for remission (forgiveness) of sins and salvation (Ti 3:5, Acts 22:16, Col 2:11-13)"

There are not two different programs for salvation.
In regard to Acts 22:16
Paul was not preaching baptism here....Ananias was the one baptizing Paul, he was devout to the law
Scripture does not state why Paul was baptized, only that he submitted.
 

Doug

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Acts 2:38 doesn't say that what Peter proclaimed was for Israel only.

As I pointed out before "Paul preached baptism for remission (forgiveness) of sins and salvation (Ti 3:5, Acts 22:16, Col 2:11-13)"

There are not two different programs for salvation.
Colossians 2:12 says that this is a spiritual baptism not through water but faith...."faith of the operation of God"
 

Doug

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Gal 2:2 "I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain."
The word translated "the" is Strong 3588
The phrase that gospel is #2098
 

Mungo

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Find in Paul's epistles where he says otherwise.
If you pull scripture from the 4 gospels you can Biblically justify it, but you are pulling scripture meant for Israel alone. In Acts 2:22 Peter is addressing Israel as an example.

I've already given you that but here it is again:
Paul preached baptism for remission (forgiveness) of sins and salvation (Ti 3:5, Acts 22:16, Col 2:11-13).
 

Doug

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Gal 2:7 "but on the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised".
TO the uncircumcised, meaning to the gentile nations
To the circumcised, meaning to the Jews. That was Peter's major mission - at least at this stage.

There is only one gospel but taken to different groups.
Look at the result of relying on translations other than the KJV:
Check out the NASB....in their footnotes where it says "Literally: of the uncircumcision and Literally: of the circumcision"...so why change it?
 

Mungo

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Acts 2:22 says Peter was talking to Israel.

Still doesn't say what Peter said was for Israel only in Acts 2:37-42.
Peter says "or the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
 

Doug

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A point I never get an answer to is, if Paul had a special gospel foir the gentiles why did he always preach is to Jews to start with? And which gospel did he preach to a mixture of Jews and gentiles?
Look at Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Paul was preaching the gospel of the grace of God to Jew and Gentile. It was to the Jew first Romans 1:16....also, look at Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Paul going to the Jew first would be in keeping with the Jew first.
 

Doug

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Still doesn't say what Peter said was for Israel only in Acts 2:37-42.
Peter says "or the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
All those "afar off" is not Gentiles, but rather, scattered Jews.
 

Doug

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I've already given you that but here it is again:
Paul preached baptism for remission (forgiveness) of sins and salvation (Ti 3:5, Acts 22:16, Col 2:11-13).
Please see posts #29 30 and 31
 

Mungo

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In regard to Titus 3:5
Water baptism is not in view here....look at Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
The washing is by the word of God

I think you misunderstand both Ti 3:5 and Eph 5:25, partly because of poor translations.

The NAB has a helpful translation of Ti 3:5
"not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit". If you look at the Greek bath of rebirth is more accurate because the word translated by the NAB as bath is loutron (Strong 3067) which is literally a bath.

G3067
loutron - From G3068; a bath, that is, (figuratively) baptism:—washing


There is one other place in the NT where the Greek loutron is used - yes, Eph 5:25-26, where Jesus is comparing husband and wife to Christ and the Church
"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath [loutron] of water with the word" NAB. Again other translation use washing.

But bath is important because the loutron (bath) wasn't just any bath but a bridal bath. The bath a bride took on the morning before her wedding.

"The bride’s ritual bath took place on the morning of the wedding ceremony
itself. The bathing ritual was a pivotal coming-of-age rite for the young bride. Indeed,
if a girl died before being married, she would undergo this ritual of bathing after her
death. The loutrophoros [bath tub] was used in this ritual ceremony to carry water. Vase-paintings seem to suggest that the groom did not bathe or that his bath was less important than the bride’s."
From The Nuptial Ceremony of Ancient Greece and the Articulation of Male Control Through Ritual by Casey Mason, Macalester College.


In Eph 5:25-26 The "washing" is the bridal bath symbolising the cleansing of the bride, the Church, that Christ takes to himself.

In Ti 3:5 Paul is using the same imagery of us becoming part of the Church, the bride of Christ.

And note it's with the word not by the word. The bath (of baptism) is accompanied with the word - the word(s) being those Jesus instructed the apostles to accompany baptism with "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit" Mt 28:19

Plus Titus 3:6 says the cleansing is through Christ, not baptism.
No it doesn't. It says the Holy Spirit is through Jesus.
Ti 3:5-6"he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior,"