Parable Of Lazarus And The Richman

[goodshepard55]

Jude 1:
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones
15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

Acts 17:
31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."


1 John 4:
17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him.


John 5:
28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

He will judge all...for His is the Judge and He alone decides what is good and what is evil....This is the Word of God not mine...

 

[Lively Stone]

The righteous will not stand in the White Throne Judgment, but will stand before Christ at His judgment.

 

[veteran]

All spirits will see God, but not at the same time. The righteous dead go to God immediately, but the wicked dead do not. They are held in separation from God in Hades to be resurrected to stand before God at the end of all things. This is what God's word teaches.

Revelation 20:4-5
Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)
.

That's partly a tradition, and not fully what the Rev.20 Scripture is pointing to.

In John 5:28-29, Christ revealed that at His coming (return), all in the graves will be resurrected to one of TWO TYPES of resurrection; either the "resurrection of life" or the "resurrection of damnation."

Other Scripture, like Rev.3:9; Acts 24:15; Rev.22:14-15; Ezek.44; etc., exists to show us the wicked will be resurrected at Christ's return also, but not made eternally alive by being born of The Spirit.

So what Rev.20:5 about the "dead" is really pointing to is the idea of the resurrected wicked still being 'spiritually dead' throughout Christ's Milennium reign, not physically dead.

 

[goodshepard55]

The righteous will not stand in the White Throne Judgment, but will stand before Christ at His judgment.

Rev.20:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This kinda says all the dead, each person...Now where are the scriptures that say you nor I as children of Christ will not be there..each one will be judged according to what he/she has done....

 

[Lively Stone]

Rev.20:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This kinda says all the dead, each person...Now where are the scriptures that say you nor I as children of Christ will not be there..each one will be judged according to what he/she has done....

That says the dead, but believers will already have had their resurrection and received their glorious new bodies long before that time---and will be very much alive! The GWT Judgment is for the unrighteous and for those mortals who live through the Millennium.

Those who have been forgiven and been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb will not be judged for and salvation. We already have salvation!

That's partly a tradition, and not fully what the Rev.20 Scripture is pointing to.

In John 5:28-29, Christ revealed that at His coming (return), all in the graves will be resurrected to one of TWO TYPES of resurrection; either the "resurrection of life" or the "resurrection of damnation."

Other Scripture, like Rev.3:9; Acts 24:15; Rev.22:14-15; Ezek.44; etc., exists to show us the wicked will be resurrected at Christ's return also, but not made eternally alive by being born of The Spirit.

So what Rev.20:5 about the "dead" is really pointing to is the idea of the resurrected wicked still being 'spiritually dead' throughout Christ's Milennium reign, not physically dead.

I disagree. It isn't tradition, but the right dividing of the word of truth.

 

[goodshepard55]

That says the dead, but believers will already have had their resurrection and received their glorious new bodies long before that time---and will be very much alive! The GWT Judgment is for the unrighteous and for those mortals who live through the Millennium.

Those who have been forgiven and been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb will not be judged for and salvation. We already have salvation!



I disagree. It isn't tradition, but the right dividing of the word of truth.

Judgment has nothing to do with salvation Lively...It is about us doing what God has so clearly instructed us to do...We will be judged by God each and all of us..So you think the ones that have died have received their glorious body and have already been judged by Christ?...Please use scripture to back up your views the scriptures you have given clearly says...

2 Cor.5:
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Romans 14:
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

Judgment seat only occurs twice in scripture in the NIV, 10 times in the KJV.... the judgment seat in Matthew 27:19, the raised platform or bench occupied by Pontius Pilate while he was deliberating the accusations made against Jesus and the sentence he would pronounce in connection with Jesus' case. According to Acts 18:12, Paul the apostle was brought before the judgment seat in Corinth. In these two instances the judgment seat is to be understood in its ordinary literal sense. In Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10, the judgment seat of Christ is a theological concept. Those verses stress that individuals are accountable to the Lord for their lives and must one day face Him in judgment.

In the great white throne judgment scene (Rev. 20:11-15), the basis of judgment is first from the book of life (vv. 12a,15) and then from the books of works (vv. 12b-14). One's relationship with Christ is that determiner of eternal destiny (John 3:36), but one's faithfulness to Christ is crucial to a genuine relationship with Christ (Matt. 7:21-23; 1 John 2:3-6). Very similar in emphasis is the parable of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-56). Pious deeds of devotion done to those in need stands as the distinguishing criterion between the sheep and the goats and settles their eternal destiny (v. 46). Paul's discussion in Romans 2:1-16 underscores that demand for obedient commitment to Christ as well. The concept of retribution for good and bad is also applied to believers (1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10), but the specifics of rewards and punishments are not stated. However, the New Testament is absolutely clear in declaring the certainty of Judgment Day from which no one will escape (Acts 17:30-31). Thus comes the apostolic call to repentance and faith.

Acts 17:
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."

God Word clearly says we will all be judged...not some or just sinners..ALL...

 

[veteran]

I disagree. It isn't tradition, but the right dividing of the word of truth.

The idea that the Rev.20:5 "dead" are literally dead in a hole in the ground to be resurrected at the end of the thousand years, is... a tradition, and not rightly dividing, simply because that idea contradicts the John 5:28-29 Scripture, and others I mentioned about the wicked going through Christ's Millennium reign.

That says the dead, but believers will already have had their resurrection and received their glorious new bodies long before that time---and will be very much alive! The GWT Judgment is for the unrighteous and for those mortals who live through the Millennium.

That's where you might want to do some more Bible study. Because that cannot be reconciled with the John 5:28-29 Scripture which is about the wicked being raised to the "resurrection of damnation" at the start of Christ's Millennium when He returns.

There won't be anyone still liable to die a first death of the flesh during that time. The idea of flesh death will be over by then. The only type of death remaining after Christ's return we are shown is the "second death".

Those who have been forgiven and been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb will not be judged for and salvation. We already have salvation!

The idea of judgment per God's Word is not always a negative thing like many tend to view it. For the overcomers in Christ Jesus, judgment is going to be a good thing, for that's how and when the rewards are handed out. It's true the only ones that will be subject to the GWT Judgment are those who did not reign with Christ at the beginning of the thousand years. That will include the five foolish virgins of Matt.25, which represent believers on Christ Jesus that went astray in this world, especially those of the coming great apostasy that Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2, which has not happened yet.

 

[logabe]

We need to understand who Jesus was talking about in Luke 16
in order to get the revelation of the parable so we can have the
correct understanding and not assume what Jesus is saying.

The biblical Israelites had the advantage of having the Scriptures
available to them nearby. Their dispersion, of course, largely
deprived them of the Scriptures. They would be deprived of the
words of the later prophets after the time of Isaiah, in whose day
Israel was deported (Isaiah 38, 39). They were like Lazarus in the
parable of Luke 16, who was "outside the gate" and received only
a few scraps from the table of the rich man who fared
sumptuously every day on the Word of God.

Even so, after the death of Judah (the rich man) and Israel (Lazarus),
God saw to it that the Gospel went West into Europe, where the
ex-Israelites were located. By this time they had largely forgotten their
Israelite heritage, but God had not forgotten. They still received their
inheritance--the Word. But then they became like the prodigal son,
who squandered his inheritance and ended up eating pigs' food. They
had done this in earlier days while in the old land, but they did it again
in the wilderness of captivity ( the last 2 thousand years ).

Hence, the Church in the West became corrupt once again. This was
the Age of Pentecost, the only leavened feast of Scripture (Lev. 23:17),
which prophesied of this interim between the two comings of Christ.

Israel's advantage should not be overblown. We must recognize that
Israel's downfall gave an advantage to the rest of the world. Rom. 11:
11-15 says,

11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did
they? May it never be! But by their transgression
salvation has come to the Gentiles to make them
jealous.
12 Now if their transgression be riches for the world,
and their failure be riches for the Gentiles, how much
more will their fulfillment be? ....
15 For if their rejection be the reconciliation of the
world, what will their acceptance be but life from
the dead?

When Israel violated the Old Covenant, God made a New Covenant with
them to replace it (Heb. 8:8-13). This Covenant was made with Israel
and Judah, we are told, but this did NOT mean that it applied only to
genealogical Israelites. It meant that one had to become part of Judah
or Israel in order for this Covenant to apply to them. It was a matter of
legal citizenship, not of genealogy.

When God dispersed the House of Israel, He divorced the nation (Jer.
3:8), saying, "She is not my wife, and I am not her husband" (Hos. 2:2).
The law of divorce in Deut. 24:1-4 prevented God from remarrying His
former wife. Thus, to fulfill the previous promises appeared to be
impossible, and many thought that the Birthright must then transfer to
Judah. They were wrong. God did the unthinkable by coming to earth in
the Person of Jesus in order to die and be raised up as a "new creature"
in the eyes of the law. As a new person, He was eligible to remarry Israel.

When the Israelites were divorced and cast off, they became just one of
the nations ( "Gentiles"). Legally speaking, they were no different from
any other nation. This put all nations an equal legal status, because the
only way that ANYONE could join (or rejoin) the nation of Judah or Israel
was through Jesus Christ. All must go through the Door in the same
manner by the same faith.


Logabe

 

[Lively Stone]

Judgment has nothing to do with salvation Lively...It is about us doing what God has so clearly instructed us to do...We will be judged by God each and all of us..So you think the ones that have died have received their glorious body and have already been judged by Christ?...Please use scripture to back up your views the scriptures you have given clearly says...

2 Cor.5:
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Romans 14:
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

Judgment seat only occurs twice in scripture in the NIV, 10 times in the KJV.... the judgment seat in Matthew 27:19, the raised platform or bench occupied by Pontius Pilate while he was deliberating the accusations made against Jesus and the sentence he would pronounce in connection with Jesus' case. According to Acts 18:12, Paul the apostle was brought before the judgment seat in Corinth. In these two instances the judgment seat is to be understood in its ordinary literal sense. In Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10, the judgment seat of Christ is a theological concept. Those verses stress that individuals are accountable to the Lord for their lives and must one day face Him in judgment.

In the great white throne judgment scene (Rev. 20:11-15), the basis of judgment is first from the book of life (vv. 12a,15) and then from the books of works (vv. 12b-14). One's relationship with Christ is that determiner of eternal destiny (John 3:36), but one's faithfulness to Christ is crucial to a genuine relationship with Christ (Matt. 7:21-23; 1 John 2:3-6). Very similar in emphasis is the parable of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-56). Pious deeds of devotion done to those in need stands as the distinguishing criterion between the sheep and the goats and settles their eternal destiny (v. 46). Paul's discussion in Romans 2:1-16 underscores that demand for obedient commitment to Christ as well. The concept of retribution for good and bad is also applied to believers (1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10), but the specifics of rewards and punishments are not stated. However, the New Testament is absolutely clear in declaring the certainty of Judgment Day from which no one will escape (Acts 17:30-31). Thus comes the apostolic call to repentance and faith.

Acts 17:
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."

God Word clearly says we will all be judged...not some or just sinners..ALL...

Believers do not stand before God in His Great White Throne Judgment, which judges wickedness. We will already have been judged according to our works in Christ by Christ at His Judgment Seat long before that.

Believers now have not yet received their rewards, but they have received the promise that their spirits are with the Lord in death. When they receive their new bodies, like the living who are changed immediately after, we all will stand before Jesus and receive our rewards which will enable us to operate in His Kingdom. We will then rule and reign with christ for 1000 years and be present during the final judgment, but we will not be judged there becasie we are FORGIVEN!

That's where you might want to do some more Bible study. Because that cannot be reconciled with the John 5:28-29 Scripture which is about the wicked being raised to the "resurrection of damnation" at the start of Christ's Millennium when He returns.

There won't be anyone still liable to die a first death of the flesh during that time. The idea of flesh death will be over by then. The only type of death remaining after Christ's return we are shown is the "second death".

The sheep and goat judgment is for those who survive the Tribulation and go on to live as mortals in the Millennium.

The idea of judgment per God's Word is not always a negative thing like many tend to view it. For the overcomers in Christ Jesus, judgment is going to be a good thing, for that's how and when the rewards are handed out. It's true the only ones that will be subject to the GWT Judgment are those who did not reign with Christ at the beginning of the thousand years. That will include the five foolish virgins of Matt.25, which represent believers on Christ Jesus that went astray in this world, especially those of the coming great apostasy that Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2, which has not happened yet.

Good... those who come out of the Millennium alive will also be judged for salvation.

 

[goodshepard55]

Thanks Lively....I see no scriptures to back up your opinion...So I will stand on the Word of God...from reading His Holy Word.....just posting on a forum or going to church does not make one a child of God, nor does reading His Word...He gave instructions for us to follow...leading people away from His truth, telling people they will not be judged is wrong, since no scriptures tells us that, only your opinion of some scriptures that you want to believe about whether you will be judged...Sorry sugar, We all will stand before the Prince of Peace, the Almighty King of kings and He will judge you and me ...he will separate us into goats and sheep...He will also say...I never knew you to some....Do you think that just because we have taken Him as our Savior, that you will not be judged?..Just wondering....

 

[Lively Stone]

Thanks Lively....I see no scriptures to back up your opinion...So I will stand on the Word of God...from reading His Holy Word.....just posting on a forum or going to church does not make one a child of God, nor does reading His Word...He gave instructions for us to follow...leading people away from His truth, telling people they will not be judged is wrong, since no scriptures tells us that, only your opinion of some scriptures that you want to believe about whether you will be judged...Sorry sugar, We all will stand before the Prince of Peace, the Almighty King of kings and He will judge you and me ...he will separate us into goats and sheep...He will also say...I never knew you to some....Do you think that just because we have taken Him as our Savior, that you will not be judged?..Just wondering....

What I believe has come from the understanding of all of eschatological passages put together. I refuse to believe anything that is merely made up...so being sly in your accusations of me being unscriptural falls on deaf ears here, sugah!

Forgiven adn righteous people are not going to stand the final judgment which is reserved fro the wicked. If you understood the scriptures, you would know that we who are the Bride will not be included in that second resurrection or the ensuing second death, and therefore none of us will still be in the grave to even BE resurrected to be judged!

You are right---we wil all stand before that Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ, but it will be before the Millennial Reign, where we will take our rewards and given positions as the ruling authorituies on the Earth along with our King, Jesus.

The sheep and the goats judgment is going to take place when Jesus sets up His Millennial Kingdom and we will be standing by His side for that---where He will judge all the mortals who survive the Tribulation and will be judged worhty---or not---to enter the Millennium period.

 

[goodshepard55]

I see still no scriptures to back up your words....Maybe you are right and maybe not....Still use scriptures and convince me that your opinion is worth studying or at least thinking about...

 

[Lively Stone]

Please refer to this article regarding the Sheep and Goats Judgment:

http://gracethrufait...6-matt-2531-46/

 

[goodshepard55]

Lively...I ask you, not some other person or article...I could have done that to begin with.....You have given me answers from their study, their opinions...I was trying to see if your study had any foundation to maybe change my opinions...never mind...I can read someone elses opinions and just forget about asking you any futher questions..Have a great day...

 

[Lively Stone]

Lively...I ask you, not some other person or article...I could have done that to begin with.....You have given me answers from their study, their opinions...I was trying to see if your study had any foundation to maybe change my opinions...never mind...I can read someone elses opinions and just forget about asking you any futher questions..Have a great day...

I'm sorry, but I felt that the author there said it better than I could. Have it your way.

 

[jiggyfly]

We need to understand who Jesus was talking about in Luke 16
in order to get the revelation of the parable so we can have the
correct understanding and not assume what Jesus is saying......

Good post Logabe, thanks for posting.