prophecy--genuine or false?

[Randy Kluth]

Rev 19.10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

I've seen a number of self-proclaimed prophets or those considered to be prophets who were genuine Christians and yet gave apparently false prophecies. And yet, because they were true Christians and faithful to the Gospel, many things they said had a "prophetic element" to them, indicating that they were inspired and suggested things supernaturally that they could not otherwise have known. How can this be?

I do think that many Christian leaders recognized the inspiration of their testimonies, and began to conclude, falsely, that they were "prophets." Perhaps they could even be viewed as "prophets"--however, they may have misconstrued how this gift was to operate?

I think many of those leaders with a "gift of prophecy" were meant more to forthtell what God is saying, rather than predict the future. And yet, due to their Pentecostal Theology, they thought they could as "prophets" predict things that came into their minds, much as a sermon was inspired. Some of them belonged to the "Faith Camp" where they thought inspired utterances should actually *cause* the thing they prophesied to come to pass.

Oral Roberts, for example, proclaimed he would build a hospital that would cure cancer. Well, he built the hospital, but it went bankrupt, initially, and it did not lead to a cure of cancer! Nevertheless, Roberts was a faithful Christian with a prophetic spirit who really did bring about acts of divine healing.

Some of these leaders with a prophetic spirit did, however, seem to bring actual prophecies of the future at times. Kim Clement prophesied of the rise of Trump to the presidency even before he declared he was running. John Paul Jackson's "The Coming Perfect Storm" appeared to be amazingly correct in many ways. It was difficult, however, to determine what these leaders "thought" was inspired and prophetic and what was actually bona fide "prophecy?"

One of them, David Wilkerson, did not even claim to be a "prophet," but just focused on his inspired utterances as visions, along with biblical interpretations of contemporary events. Hal Lindsay's book, "The Late Great Planet Earth," was all about prophetic truth, and yet it was simply an interpretation of contemporary events from a biblical outlook.

My personal feeling is that if the Christian leader is genuine and faithful to the Gospel, we should take their "prophecies" with a grain of salt without neglecting to see if there is some real "prophecy" contained in it. We simply need to hold self-proclaimed "prophets" to account, so that they present actual prophecies as genuine prophecies and their own inspired thoughts as something to be carefully scrutinized?

 

[quietthinker]

Rev 19.10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

I've seen a number of self-proclaimed prophets or those considered to be prophets who were genuine Christians and yet gave apparently false prophecies. And yet, because they were true Christians and faithful to the Gospel, many things they said had a "prophetic element" to them, indicating that they were inspired and suggested things supernaturally that they could not otherwise have known. How can this be?

I do think that many Christian leaders recognized the inspiration of their testimonies, and began to conclude, falsely, that they were "prophets." Perhaps they could even be viewed as "prophets"--however, they may have misconstrued how this gift was to operate?

I think many of those leaders with a "gift of prophecy" were meant more to forthtell what God is saying, rather than predict the future. And yet, due to their Pentecostal Theology, they thought they could as "prophets" predict things that came into their minds, much as a sermon was inspired. Some of them belonged to the "Faith Camp" where they thought inspired utterances should actually *cause* the thing they prophesied to come to pass.

Oral Roberts, for example, proclaimed he would build a hospital that would cure cancer. Well, he built the hospital, but it went bankrupt, initially, and it did not lead to a cure of cancer! Nevertheless, Roberts was a faithful Christian with a prophetic spirit who really did bring about acts of divine healing.

Some of these leaders with a prophetic spirit did, however, seem to bring actual prophecies of the future at times. Kim Clement prophesied of the rise of Trump to the presidency even before he declared he was running. John Paul Jackson's "The Coming Perfect Storm" appeared to be amazingly correct in many ways. It was difficult, however, to determine what these leaders "thought" was inspired and prophetic and what was actually bona fide "prophecy?"

One of them, David Wilkerson, did not even claim to be a "prophet," but just focused on his inspired utterances as visions, along with biblical interpretations of contemporary events. Hal Lindsay's book, "The Late Great Planet Earth," was all about prophetic truth, and yet it was simply an interpretation of contemporary events from a biblical outlook.

My personal feeling is that if the Christian leader is genuine and faithful to the Gospel, we should take their "prophecies" with a grain of salt without neglecting to see if there is some real "prophecy" contained in it. We simply need to hold self-proclaimed "prophets" to account, so that they present actual prophecies as genuine prophecies and their own inspired thoughts as something to be carefully scrutinized?

Even Caiaphas made an accurate prediction re Jesus death. What are we to make of that? The Persian King Cyrus we are told was God's hand in liberating the Jews from Babylon also.
I don't think prediction and causation correlate.....and what OT prophets attributed to God is understandable seeing they believed everything both good and bad was God's doing.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Even Caiaphas made an accurate prediction re Jesus death. What are we to make of that? The Persian King Cyrus we are told was God's hand in liberating the Jews from Babylon also.
I don't think prediction and causation correlate.....and what OT prophets attributed to God is understandable seeing they believed everything both good and bad was God's doing.

I do believe that God operates through Christians as well as non-Christians at times. We need discernment when to believe in a Balaam and when to see him as an evil adviser! In everything we need to have "eyes to see," to discern the difference between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Some of this we can expose as error things that are "bad spirited," ie a malicious spirit. I don't listen to malicious criticism, no matter how true it may be. It is designed to provoke, and we should not cooperate with that, nor add to it.

I was looking at John Paul Stevens' "the Coming Perfect Storm" again on youtube. There are elements to it that cause me to shy away from it, such as the yet-unfulfilled prophecy of a dirty bomb going off in the US.

On the other hand, back in 2008 he predicted a major "woe" coming in 2012, which was the beginning of Obama's 2nd term, and declared that much of his prophecy would be fulfilled approx. 10 years later. That was in the middle of Trump's presidency, when the Russian Hoax emerged. It caused a major backlash against conservative politics, leading to the current Marxist bent being perpetrated by the Democrats.

Way back in 2008 Stevens was predicting that Russia would rise up to try to become an imperial power once again, like the Soviet Union, attacking Ukraine. The result would be a decline in the value of the US dollar, as well as an energy crisis, benefiting those with oil This seems amazingly prophetic, you think?

Julie Green is a Christian, and acts like a Christian, and feels burdens like Christian burdens. She wants the US to go back to conservative values.

This isn't a Balaam prophecy--this is a Christian prophecy. But knowing what is just being expressed as a "Christian burden" and what is actual "prophecy" is the problem. She seems to have a strong prophetic burden in her words, and yet fails to acknowledge that her lack of technical accuracy reflects something less than actual "prophecies?"

David Wilkerson, for all of his seemingly "gimicky" predictions, actually foretold some pretty amazing prophecies, and properly presented contemporary events as divine judgments. He foretold the increase of disasters of "record-breaking" proportions, changes in weather patterns, the increase in killer bees, etc. etc. But amazingly he predicted the fall of the Iron Curtain! How can I ignore the fact this is a "Christian prophecy?"

So I try to resolve these things the best I can. You're welcome to try your hand?

 

[quietthinker]

I do believe that God operates through Christians as well as non-Christians at times. We need discernment when to believe in a Balaam and when to see him as an evil adviser! In everything we need to have "eyes to see," to discern the difference between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Some of this we can expose as error things that are "bad spirited," ie a malicious spirit. I don't listen to malicious criticism, no matter how true it may be. It is designed to provoke, and we should not cooperate with that, nor add to it.

I was looking at John Paul Stevens' "the Coming Perfect Storm" again on youtube. There are elements to it that cause me to shy away from it, such as the yet-unfulfilled prophecy of a dirty bomb going off in the US.

On the other hand, back in 2008 he predicted a major "woe" coming in 2012, which was the beginning of Obama's 2nd term, and declared that much of his prophecy would be fulfilled approx. 10 years later. That was in the middle of Trump's presidency, when the Russian Hoax emerged. It caused a major backlash against conservative politics, leading to the current Marxist bent being perpetrated by the Democrats.

Way back in 2008 Stevens was predicting that Russia would rise up to try to become an imperial power once again, like the Soviet Union, attacking Ukraine. The result would be a decline in the value of the US dollar, as well as an energy crisis, benefiting those with oil This seems amazingly prophetic, you think?

Julie Green is a Christian, and acts like a Christian, and feels burdens like Christian burdens. She wants the US to go back to conservative values.

This isn't a Balaam prophecy--this is a Christian prophecy. But knowing what is just being expressed as a "Christian burden" and what is actual "prophecy" is the problem. She seems to have a strong prophetic burden in her words, and yet fails to acknowledge that her lack of technical accuracy reflects something less than actual "prophecies?"

David Wilkerson, for all of his seemingly "gimicky" predictions, actually foretold some pretty amazing prophecies, and properly presented contemporary events as divine judgments. He foretold the increase of disasters of "record-breaking" proportions, changes in weather patterns, the increase in killer bees, etc. etc. But amazingly he predicted the fall of the Iron Curtain! How can I ignore the fact this is a "Christian prophecy?"

So I try to resolve these things the best I can. You're welcome to try your hand?

I'm convinced that anyone with the knowledge/ intelligence, insight and experience that Satan has predicting events reasonably accurately in the relatively short term is plausible.
What an advantage he has mingling it with so called 'christian values' and rhetoric to forward his deception.

The question is, what are the factors which seperate and identify the false from the true? .....as often they are intermingled resulting in, as we see here on this site, irrelevant arguments, straw men and confusion amounting to the inability to go forward ie, remaining stuck in denominational bias among God's people.

 

[Keraz]

Any person making their own prophesies about the future of the world or Israel, etc, are invariably wrong:
Psalms 74:9 We see not any signs, there is no more any Prophet, neither is there among us anyone who knows how long. Hosea 9:7

But in this Christian era, there are godly people with the gift of personal prophecy.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'm convinced that anyone with the knowledge/ intelligence, insight and experience that Satan has predicting events reasonably accurately in the relatively short term is plausible.
What an advantage he has mingling it with so called 'christian values' and rhetoric to forward his deception.

The question is, what are the factors which seperate and identify the false from the true? .....as often they are intermingled resulting in, as we see here on this site, irrelevant arguments, straw men and confusion amounting to the inability to go forward ie, remaining stuck in denominational bias among God's people.

Well, it's a good question. I'm leaning towards accepting Christians of good character who express genuine Christian concerns and show actual Christian burdens even if they zealously think everything they say and think is an actual "prophecy." I simply have to separate the "additions" from the genuine burdens. Well, actually it isn't so simple!