proverbs.

[geordie72]

"Chastise your son, for in this there is hope, but do not desire his death. The man of violent temper pays the penalty; even if you rescue him, you will have to do it again." (Proverbs 19:18-19 NAB)Just wondering if any one can explain this passage to me..?

 

[Christina]

This verse is easier to understand in the KJVProverbs 19:18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, And let not thy soul spare for his crying." This verse is telling us that we are not to let the crying of the son/child stop us giving a child punishment that he has coming to him. chasen /scold punish him while there is hope This is akin to spare the rod spoil the child However, at the same time you are punishing your son, don't break his spirit with to harsh of treatment. It is important that we leave enough spirit for that son to get up and have the desire to get ahead. One should always remember Never correct your child when you are angry, what ever caused the trouble in the first place will wait until you cool down. Always explain to the child why the punishment must be given, and then do it. without anger.

 

[geordie72]

However if a father is unable leave any sprit after much punishment would this be wise.? "Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NLT)

 

[geordie72]

Or this one is confusing me to no end.. "You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their father's wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation" (Exodus 20:4-5 NAB)

 

[Christina]

We are not to worship any graven image, or the likeness of anything that has been created by God or man. A Christian simply does not serve any form of gods, nor systems created by any man. Our God is a jealous God, and He will not stand for idolatry. When we come to the part; "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and forth generation of them that hate me;" Why would God take out his anger on the kids of those fathers that fell into idolatry? God is saying I will visit the sin of the fathers upon the children to the third and forth generation if they continue in father bad habits of idolatry. If their father hates God, and they hate God just like their father does, then they are no different than their father before the Lord. However if that son learns to love God, then he is no longer God enemy, but a son of the living God. God will not visit them for their iniquity of sin, because their sins is gone, washed under the blood of Christ through their repentance in Jesus name. We serve a Living loving God. But remember here just as your quote from above in Deuteronomy 21:18–21 these are old testament Laws, Ordances, and we do not live by the law but by Grace

 

[geordie72]

All of these rules are part of the Old Covenant and of equal import. Why quote the Ten Commandments and ignore other tenets? A believer’s obligation to one is no less than his obligation to all. In fact, if under the New Covenant Christians have stepped into the shoes of the Israelites and become, in effect, the new Chosen People, then they should inherit all the privileges and duties of that office. They seem to want the former but not the latter. Biblicists teach, preach, and attempt to reach others with moralism, but are not averse to selectively using that which suits their interests.

 

[geordie72]

“According to scripture it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of law to fail” (Luke 16:17 & Matthew 5:18-19). If sin is transgression of the law, as 1 John 3:4 says, then you should be following all of the Old Law.

 

[Christina]

Incorrect conclusion for one thing one must understand there is a differance between Law, Oradances and statutes, secondly we are told Christ came to fulfill the Law not change it. We no longer there fore are under the law itself but under Jesus Christ he has become the law..Man can not live by the law because if you break one you are guilty of breaking them all read Galtains. Ga.l2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal.3:10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. the law is noy of faith but if you live by them you must live by them all not breaking one or you are guilty of breaking them all 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

 

[geordie72]

The Bible is God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means of overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books which is the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man.Agree or disagree ..?

 

[chrissy]

Although I don't read luke or mathew, it is so that we abide all the commandments of the OT, to the best of our ability though. I mean for instance where is The Ark of the Covenant of God? How are we to make sacrafices? I think in due time all commandments will be in "play" It is important for us to know them now.

 

[geordie72]

Im slightly concerned with the 6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. Strangely enough this is a commandment despite all the punishments that require death in the New Testament and the Old Testament. How can thou not kill when thou is commanded to kill at the same time? This hypocrisy should be pointed out if the ten commandments are posted in schools, court rooms and buildings of legislation. The confusion of this commandment would surely bring capitol punishment into question.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Why do people continue to argue that we are under the Law of Moses? Despite the scriptures that say other wise,,, Hebrews is an entire book about that,, Acts also has a huge part about it. Why is it when the Bible says,, No,, people still come by and say,, "Well, that's a different TYPE of "NO",, it's not really implied that we don't, cause we still do." Romans 2:14, Colossians 2:14, Galatians 5:14, It goes on and on and on. Seriously. If you want to follow the whole law, then that's a good for you(given you do it to glorify God, and don't still sacrifice). But, it's not wrong for anyone else not to. It's simple.. Love God with all your heart. That means, don't sin,, and by not sinning, you also uphold the Second law.... Love your neighbor as yourself. So,,, If you love your neighbor, you also fulfill the Law of God, because all sin hurts someone,, If you do no wrong to yourself, or your neighbor, you show the Love of God. That's what it boils down to.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

There's a difference here. You're talking about the OT. Commanded to not kill,, means. Don't murder. Don't kill someone to take what they have, or take their life out of anger, or your own selfish motives. When later on God commanded people to be killed, this is a righteous Judgement from God himself. Because, "The wages of Sin is death,,," Many times you see in the Bible, that people prayed for mercy, and the Lord chose to give it, even in cases of death, sometimes He didn't, but God is Just. "I desire mercy not sacrifice" "I will show mercy on whom I show mercy" Life and death are the Lords to give and take as He wills. All of our days are numbered. As far as death penalty,,, And, I believe Death Row is very inhumane. The whole reason to imprison people shouldn't be for punishment,, It should merely be because, "You did something bad, and we can no longer trust you." I'm against it. But, even then,, If the Lord set up the Governments, and allowed the Laws for what ever reason,, there's a death penalty,, and "Not one sparrow will fall from the Sky without the will of the Father in Heaven." Pointing out the Hypocracy to an institution that doesn't believe in God anymore wont do any good. Much more,, Even some that do believe, will give reference to people being killed in the Bible for sins.

 

[Brother Mike]

WhiteKnuckle:

Commanded to not kill,, means. Don't murder. Don't kill someone to take what they have, or take their life out of anger, or your own selfish motives.

God is not against KILLINGThe Hebrew says:Thou shalt do NO MURDER. God Raises Governments, God empowers Armies. That is a whole different matter than going in to rob and murder someone. Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Christina]

I agee with you both Whiteknuckle and Mike this means thou shall not commit murderbut we are still to observe the Laws of Moses just not the same way Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven Christ came to fulfill the Law not to change it these are still sins we are not to break them however if we do we are to go to Christ and repent as he paid the price. If one choose's to live by the Law alone without Christ then he must keep them all if he breaks one he is guilty of breaking them all Thus the Law is to perfect Man can not live by the Law alone without Christ. Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

 

[chrissy]

[quote name='WhiteKnuckle;73252] Love God with all your heart. That means' date=' don't sin,, [/QUOTE'] How do you know if you are sinning? By what commandments are you following for you to know what is a sin or not if you think we are not under the commandments of the OT?

Why do people continue to argue that we are under the Law of Moses?

Why do people continue to argue that we are not?

Love your neighbor as yourself

Ofcourse we shall abide by this also. I don't disagree.

 

[chrissy]

but we are still to observe the Laws of Moses just not the same way

I just highlighted the part of what you wrote that I don't understand. A commandment is given we listen to it, how else are we to observe it? What is the other way? IMO I don't think there is another way...but... I guess that's just me.

 

[Christina]

Well the debate started with someone claiming we were to follow not only the law but the same punishment as the Old test. That was what I was referring to as being different. We no longer stone one to death for committing Adultery we repent in the name of Christ because he already died for the sin .....Christ said he came not to change the Law, therefore we are to abide by the Law as its never changed ..however he already paid the price for it ..So we repent in his name .... Also there is a difference between Laws,ordinances, and statues

 

[GuyMartin]

This is why Jesus died on the cross so the law would be abolished.We live by the Grace.Rebellious children now days are taken to Juvees court and slammed in like they were hardened criminal.Most of today problems with kids comes from single parents home...or parents that chooses their career over their kids. We have to make choices in life...and if you choose to have kids you have to bare the consequences and not run away from your responsability....Many parents today bury their heads in the sand....sad to say....but true.

 

[Christina]

1Jo 3:4[/URL] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.