In response to this comment by grandma dolittle in the “please stay away from the pope” thread, I promised her my understanding of Purgatory.
It’s rather long, so I’ll give a part 1 and wait for comments on that before moving onto part 2.
Can I ask that comments at this stage are confined to what I have actually said and not on what I haven’t yet said, otherwise we will go down many paths and never get to part 2.
There will be time later. Thanks
Purgatory – Part 1
Catholic belief:
"All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven." (CCC 1030)
“But nothing unclean will enter it” [The new Jerusalem – Heaven] (Rev 21:27)
Nothing unclean, that is with the stain of sin may enter heaven.
“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Mt 5:48)
Nothing unclean may enter heaven so we need to be perfect to enter heaven.
“Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12;14)
Nothing unclean may enter heaven so we need to be holy to enter heaven.
If we are not wholly clean, perfect and holy there must be some process whereby we can be cleansed and made perfect and holy.
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect” (Heb 12:22-23)
This shows that there is a way, a process, whereby the spirits of just men are made perfect.
Catholics call this process Purgatory.
Purgatory
“early 13c., from M.L. purgatorium (St. Bernard, early 12c.), from L.L., "means of cleansing," prop. neut. of purgatorius (adj.) "purging, cleansing," from L. purgare (see purge).” (Online Etymology Dictionary)
Many Protestants call this Glorification.
“Glorification is the Protestant alternative to Purgatory, as it is "the means by which the elect receive perfection before entering into the kingdom of Heaven." According to the theologies of most major Protestant groups” (Wikipedia)
Purgatory is about sanctification. It is about the secondary consequences of sin not the primary consequence of sin. The primary consequence of sin is a rupture (partial or total) of communion with God. It the healing of that rupture that Jesus atoned for on the cross. It is the eternal punishment that he took upon himself.
We are born into a sinful condition. “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Psalm 51:5).
During our lives we pile sin upon sin. “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1Jn 1:8).
Or as St. Paul put it “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.” (Rom 7:25)
Unless we do something about them these secondary consequences of sin accumulate and we are told that nothing unclean may enter heaven (Rev 21:27). We need to be cleansed or purged from the consequences of sin that affect us so that we may be fit to enter the presence of God.
Jesus dealt with the punishment for sin due to our offence against God. But when we sin we also damage ourselves because we fall into patterns of sin.
Love never ends says St. Paul (1 Cor 13:8). In heaven what else will there be. “So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”. (1 Cor 13:13), and in heaven there will be no need of faith for we will be in the presence of God; there will be no need for hope because we will have attained all that we hoped for.
All that we will need is perfect love, and indeed nothing else. All else besides love, that which detracts from love, that is less than love must be left behind. There can be no anger, hate, lust, greed, jealousy, pride, covetousness, or any such thing. It is not enough to “cover up” such things, they must be expunged.
This can appear as punishment but it would be better to regard it as God’s discipline.
“It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” (Heb 12:7-11).
“Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of himself; like gold in the furnace he tried them, and like a sacrificial burnt offering he accepted them.” (Wis 3:5-6)
Purgatory is seen as a purification process where the disorders in us caused by sin are healed, where the lingering attachments to sin, such as pride, anger lust etc., and “bad attitudes” are cleared out, so that we can be pure and holy and fit to be in the presence of God. It is God’s mercy to allow us to be purified before we enter his presence, as we could not bear to be in his presence unless we are pure and holy.
Any questions so far?
It’s rather long, so I’ll give a part 1 and wait for comments on that before moving onto part 2.
Can I ask that comments at this stage are confined to what I have actually said and not on what I haven’t yet said, otherwise we will go down many paths and never get to part 2.
There will be time later. Thanks
Purgatory – Part 1
Catholic belief:
"All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven." (CCC 1030)
“But nothing unclean will enter it” [The new Jerusalem – Heaven] (Rev 21:27)
Nothing unclean, that is with the stain of sin may enter heaven.
“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Mt 5:48)
Nothing unclean may enter heaven so we need to be perfect to enter heaven.
“Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12;14)
Nothing unclean may enter heaven so we need to be holy to enter heaven.
If we are not wholly clean, perfect and holy there must be some process whereby we can be cleansed and made perfect and holy.
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect” (Heb 12:22-23)
This shows that there is a way, a process, whereby the spirits of just men are made perfect.
Catholics call this process Purgatory.
Purgatory
“early 13c., from M.L. purgatorium (St. Bernard, early 12c.), from L.L., "means of cleansing," prop. neut. of purgatorius (adj.) "purging, cleansing," from L. purgare (see purge).” (Online Etymology Dictionary)
Many Protestants call this Glorification.
“Glorification is the Protestant alternative to Purgatory, as it is "the means by which the elect receive perfection before entering into the kingdom of Heaven." According to the theologies of most major Protestant groups” (Wikipedia)
Purgatory is about sanctification. It is about the secondary consequences of sin not the primary consequence of sin. The primary consequence of sin is a rupture (partial or total) of communion with God. It the healing of that rupture that Jesus atoned for on the cross. It is the eternal punishment that he took upon himself.
We are born into a sinful condition. “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Psalm 51:5).
During our lives we pile sin upon sin. “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1Jn 1:8).
Or as St. Paul put it “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.” (Rom 7:25)
Unless we do something about them these secondary consequences of sin accumulate and we are told that nothing unclean may enter heaven (Rev 21:27). We need to be cleansed or purged from the consequences of sin that affect us so that we may be fit to enter the presence of God.
Jesus dealt with the punishment for sin due to our offence against God. But when we sin we also damage ourselves because we fall into patterns of sin.
Love never ends says St. Paul (1 Cor 13:8). In heaven what else will there be. “So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”. (1 Cor 13:13), and in heaven there will be no need of faith for we will be in the presence of God; there will be no need for hope because we will have attained all that we hoped for.
All that we will need is perfect love, and indeed nothing else. All else besides love, that which detracts from love, that is less than love must be left behind. There can be no anger, hate, lust, greed, jealousy, pride, covetousness, or any such thing. It is not enough to “cover up” such things, they must be expunged.
This can appear as punishment but it would be better to regard it as God’s discipline.
“It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” (Heb 12:7-11).
“Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of himself; like gold in the furnace he tried them, and like a sacrificial burnt offering he accepted them.” (Wis 3:5-6)
Purgatory is seen as a purification process where the disorders in us caused by sin are healed, where the lingering attachments to sin, such as pride, anger lust etc., and “bad attitudes” are cleared out, so that we can be pure and holy and fit to be in the presence of God. It is God’s mercy to allow us to be purified before we enter his presence, as we could not bear to be in his presence unless we are pure and holy.
Any questions so far?
