Purity: Shema is the Backbone of OT AND NT, Agree?

[nothead]

It has everything to do with it. Why would any NT believer follow Judaic Jewish theology when they have no link to the one we have been saved through??? How many times have they erred in Judgment yet you happily accept their beliefs...

PS; Your arrogance is showing through your blatant show of disrespect. Please try to keep to the subject and off the personal insults thanks.

Again, the lack of respect shown to Jesus by Jews has nothing to do with the lack of respect YOU show Jesus the Jew who said Shema is numero uno in YOUR faith.

I show respect to those who show Jesus respect, maham. You made him God and STILL respect not his red letter words.

 

[shturt678]

What does this have to do with the OP? Stay on track dear. Eat your Wheaties. Put some bananas in. Maybe a strawberry.

Jesus was a Jew and said Shema is still the 1st Command. Mark 12. Read it. Thank you, nothead.

Thank you for caring again!

Just a head's up, ie, the Shema was and is the gospel (Deut.6:4 & Mk.12:29) followed by the greatest Commandment (Deut.6:5 & Mk.12:30, 31.

Old Jack's opinion

 

[nothead]

Thank you for caring again!

Just a head's up, ie, the Shema was and is the gospel (Deut.6:4 & Mk.12:29) followed by the greatest Commandment (Deut.6:5 & Mk.12:30, 31.

Old Jack's opinion

Shema has been modified to include Jesus as Shaliach agent of God.

Two on our foreheads according to Rev 14.

[SIZE=1.25em]14 [/SIZE]Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb,standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.


But and yet this does in no way mean Jesus is EQUAL to God in heaven. Just as he always said himself, he is the Servant of God.

Equal God is no servant of God. You fudge when and if you say this. No equal God can be with God by Judaic Law. Which one? Em, er uh dub buh I think it's the first one of the Ten, sir..

I am the God who brought you out of Egypt. Ye shalt have no other elohim to my face (as equal).

 

[Angelina]

Again, the lack of respect shown to Jesus by Jews has nothing to do with the lack of respect YOU show Jesus the Jew who said Shema is numero uno in YOUR faith.

I show respect to those who show Jesus respect, maham. You made him God and STILL respect not his red letter words.

Thank you for getting back to the topic rather than using personal attacks as your form of rebuttal....

Mark 12
28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’

Jesus came for the sake of the lost sheep of Israel and they rejected him. Matthew 15:24. To reject Jesus is to reject his word. How can the Judaic Jews Love the Lord without accepting him as their Messiah, the anointed one. Therefore, the servants of the Lord, Paul and Barnabas turned toward the Gentiles according to the Lord's will. Acts 13:46. This is what I am getting at....

Shalom!

 

[justaname]

Wall, thanks for the uptick, now I know it's YOU gonna pay me to make you look bad.


Hypostasis means Realiter, means Being, eh? I knew my broker would someday come in handy. HE GOD. Whoo hoo.

Oh, RealitER. One who realizes all? Funny, Jews still use the word BEING just as they always did. A living nephesh. God/nephesh is God-being.

You curmudgeoned yourself with your own Greek philosophy, man.




Wise move since the first 3 known Creeds have Jesus not mentioned as God at all. However they do indicate general theological trends:

Ireneus Rule of Faith 3rd Century

. . . this faith: in one God, the Father Almighty, who made the heaven and the earth and the seas and all the things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was made flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who made known through the prophets the plan of salvation, and the coming, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and his future appearing from heaven in the glory of the Father to sum up all things and to raise anew all flesh of the whole human race . . .


****************************************************************************************************************

Third Century Old Roman Symbol


I believe in God the Father almighty;
and in Christ Jesus His only Son, our Lord,
Who was born from the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
Who under Pontius Pilate was crucified and buried,

on the third day rose again from the dead,
ascended to heaven,
sits at the right hand of the Father,
whence He will come to judge the living and the dead;

and in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Church,
the remission of sins,
the resurrection of the flesh
(the life everlasting).[7]

*******************************************************************************************************************


Fourth Century Apostolic's Creed
1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
5. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again.
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
10. the forgiveness of sins,
11. the resurrection of the body,
12. and life everlasting.
Amen.








No, the historical context, works 87.276% of the time regarding interpretations, SIR. Where do you come up with your stats sir? Pluck them from the air? See how you are?



Nice try. 1 x 1 x 1 is Oneness Pentecostal modalism. This is what happens when you make God an equation. You and your fathers in the faith ADDED both Jesus and the Holy Spirit to the God so-called HEAD, and THEN said this Godhead is 'one.'

Three don't add up to one. See my three first Creeds above. IF Jesus weren't God until 325 A.D. then in fact you did, you did, you did ADD Jesus to God.



Jesus' reasoning in Jn 10 in fact necessitates Elohim Theology to interpret, there is no other way to see the 'gods' from Psalm 82. He includes himself among the Judges of Torah as 'elohim' ...those who were also 'sons of elohim.'

Thus you see he claims NO ONTOLOGY shared with the Father, only that he is FROM GOD being one 'to whom the Word of God came.'

.

You defy thousands of years of rabbinical terp. Nice terping, terpster. Not.




----- .





Say why or we go nowhere. "Nowhere...under the rainbow, c'est la vie...."

325 AD????

Here are some earlier quotes...

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)
Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).
Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
"O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).
On the divinity of Christ...
Ignatius Bishop of Antioch died about 110 A.D. he was a disciple of the Apostle John, wrote about the lords 2nd coming, "Look for him that is above the times, him who has not times, him who is invisible". Only God is without time , eternal and invisible. In numerous other places in his letter to Polycarp he states "Jesus is God", "God incarnate"


Perhaps your Jewish Theologians do not agree to the Trinity and Jesus' divinity, yet the early Christian's do agree, even the Hebrew ones.
Philippians 2:6
Colossians 2:9
Hebrews 1:3
John 1:1

Then we have Jesus' claim...
John 8:58 (Preexisting Logos)

Then we also have the fact that Jesus accepted worship. The invalid claim that kings accepted worship speaks nothing to the truth. Look to the book of Daniel and the Jews not worshipping kings. Look to the book of Acts where Paul and Barnabas refused worship, or where men die for receiving worship.

Jesus is not the one to whom the Word of God came...Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus did not need to become the Christ, Jesus is Immanuel.

The Logos incarnate, Yeshua Ha-Mashiach

 

[Angelina]

"Shema" to the Judaic Jew is nothing more than Tradition. A Jewish ritual spoken by rote 2x a day in prayer. It has no power to save without the savior. They know God the Father but reject God his Son which disqualifies them from receiving God the Holy Spirit who is the seal of our redemption and guarantee of our purchased possession.

 

[nothead]

Thank you for getting back to the topic rather than using personal attacks as your form of rebuttal....

Mark 12
28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’

Jesus came for the sake of the lost sheep of Israel and they rejected him. Matthew 15:24. To reject Jesus is to reject his word. How can the Judaic Jews Love the Lord without accepting him as their Messiah, the anointed one. Therefore, the servants of the Lord, Paul and Barnabas turned toward the Gentiles according to the Lord's will. Acts 13:46. This is what I am getting at....

Shalom!

This is wrong. The reason why they knew Gentiles were to be proselytized was because they saw them getting baptised in Spirit by the power of the Living God, not because Jews were rejecting Jesus en whole.

The first 3000 and 5000 were dominantly Jew as far as I know. And I trust my knowing over most others.

Secondly, you cannot quote Mark 12:29 and remain Trinitarian. The first half of your own first command has Jesus saying YOUR GOD is one, numerically, expressed for ALL JEWS in the planet then and now by the scribe as NO OTHER BUT HE. "He" is singular mahm, and this is how they always understood the Living God. SINGULAR.

"Shema" to the Judaic Jew is nothing more than Tradition. A Jewish ritual spoken by rote 2x a day in prayer. It has no power to save without the savior. They know God the Father but reject God his Son which disqualifies them from receiving God the Holy Spirit who is the seal of our redemption and guarantee of our purchased possession.

If we could do Shema, we could be saved by Law, since Shema is the bastion by which all Law and the Prophets hang. So then you are right.

What Purity meant (I think) when he said the Shema is the BACKBONE also of NT, is that

1) It provided the necessity to seek propitiation when the acolyte finds out THROUGH TRYING this Law is not quite or even hardly doable

2) It being undoable NEVER meant God allowed for it to not be DOING in it's undoability, IF you know whatta mean. God still said to DO IT.

3) When the Circumcision of the Heart came as a flame afire down on the upper room, this Deut 30 promise came true for Jew and Gentile alike the Shema in it's holy pristine undoability became DOABLE as never before...men dying without hesitation to honor the Living God they now have come to love with the same AGAPE LOVE which God gave to them, the Joy Indescribable in great measure never seen in this day among many or even a few.

Deut 30

[SIZE=.75em]6 [/SIZE]And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

This was fulfilled in the short term by those who tried doing Shema, the Spirit coming to do Shema even more...but especially this was the prophesy of the upper room and the trickled down Grace upon believers even now. Amen.

And all of this relates to Covenant and what is required of Covenant makers with God. You who think (and this may be you or not) that Covenant is sitting pretty and confessing God gave you Himself on a Cross is all, forgot about Paul's Shema race, with all of his might and all of his soul and all of his heart.

More than any athlete, more than any soldier in the battlefield, God requires even more than Vince Lombardi who metaphorically required 110%. The coach requires your supreme effort, and the General requires your LIFE if need be.

God requires no less with the Shema. This is both the wonder and the terrible intensity of True Covenant. NOT the ideal that you look good, smell good and are blessed with abundance in all ways since your God loves you and this is all.

Modern day Churches have taken Prosperity Doctrine to it's end. Now true reformation is at the door.

 

[shturt678]

Shema has been modified to include Jesus as Shaliach agent of God.

Two on our foreheads according to Rev 14.

[SIZE=1.25em]14 [/SIZE]Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb,standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.


But and yet this does in no way mean Jesus is EQUAL to God in heaven. Just as he always said himself, he is the Servant of God.

Equal God is no servant of God. You fudge when and if you say this. No equal God can be with God by Judaic Law. Which one? Em, er uh dub buh I think it's the first one of the Ten, sir..

I am the God who brought you out of Egypt. Ye shalt have no other elohim to my face (as equal).

Thank you agan for your caring, and response!

One cannot help but agape those "modifications."

Acts3:13, "glorified his Servant Jesus" This is the great Ebed Yahwah of Isaiah, chapters 40-66 of course, the mighty "Servant" of YHWH, who is his Son from all eternity, indeed, but the Son who by His Incarnation became "His Servant" to work our our salvation.

Excerpt from Mr. Luther regarding Acts3:13-14 (Got this one on the money): "....For in his nature God cannot die; but new that God and man are untied in one person, it is correctly called God's death when the man dies who is one thing or one person with God." Me: Jesus = God, the Author of life, ie, Godman.

Hope you're not like others, and throw in the towel too soon?

Old Jack, your corner man.

btw the symbolic 144,000 is the complete Church at the end of time that the Godman Jesus seen even before creation.

 

[nothead]

Thank you agan for your caring, and response!

One cannot help but agape those "modifications."

Acts3:13, "glorified his Servant Jesus" This is the great Ebed Yahwah of Isaiah, chapters 40-66 of course, the mighty "Servant" of YHWH, who is his Son from all eternity, indeed, but the Son who by His Incarnation became "His Servant" to work our our salvation.

Excerpt from Mr. Luther regarding Acts3:13-14 (Got this one on the money): "....For in his nature God cannot die; but new that God and man are untied in one person, it is correctly called God's death when the man dies who is one thing or one person with God." Me: Jesus = God, the Author of life, ie, Godman.

Hope you're not like others, and throw in the towel too soon?

Old Jack, your corner man.

btw the symbolic 144,000 is the complete Church at the end of time that the Godman Jesus seen even before creation.

Godman ain't in the Bible sir. And I can go all day, at least 'til my juices run cold.

"Godman" is a contradiction in terms. In fact God said so when He informs us He cannot lie.

Num 23

[SIZE=.75em]19 [/SIZE]God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Heb 6

16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
[SIZE=.75em]17 [/SIZE]Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
[SIZE=.75em]18 [/SIZE]That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

So then my Jack of all majority opinion, this scripture is exactly Paul's point: God's promises are good, since he AIN'T and never was a man.

 

[Angelina]

This is wrong. The reason why they knew Gentiles were to be proselytized was because they saw them getting baptised in Spirit by the power of the Living God, not because Jews were rejecting Jesus en whole.

The Gentiles weren't proselytized, they were baptized in the Spirit under the new covenant, This covenant is in Christ. The Judaic Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. They continue to follow the Law of Moses yet their minds have been blinded until it is taken away in Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:14, 15.

Secondly, you cannot quote Mark 12:29 and remain Trinitarian. The first half of your own first command has Jesus saying YOUR GOD is one, numerically, expressed for ALL JEWS in the planet then and now by the scribe as NO OTHER BUT HE. "He" is singular mahm, and this is how they always understood the Living God. SINGULAR.

It also says "Hear Oh Israel" which I am not, however I am a part of the promise given to Abraham as a Gentile believer Galatians 3:8, 9 which was established 430 years before the law came to be.... Gal 3:17.

I'm sorry I do not understand the doable thingy that you speak of....Please read John 8 especially the part where Jesus speaks to the Jews who at one point stated "we have one Father—God.” and Jesus replied... John 8: 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47.

Peace!

 

[nothead]

The Gentiles weren't proselytized, they were baptized in the Spirit under the new covenant, This covenant is in Christ. The Judaic Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. They continue to follow the Law of Moses yet their minds have been blinded until it is taken away in Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:14, 15.

Your posts are hard to follow ma'ahm. Since they don't make much sense. The Gentiles were not prosletyzed??

Defn proselytize:1.

convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.


So then what was Paul doing, his missions and his travels if not this? See, your post STARTS out making no sense.

It also says "Hear Oh Israel" which I am not, however I am a part of the promise given to Abraham as a Gentile believer Galatians 3:8, 9 which was established 430 years before the law came to be.... Gal 3:17.

Not all Israel are [true] Israel. Conversely, all true Israel are not Jew. Rom 9:6. Wrong number two. You are batting 1000 so far. Whiffs that is.

I'm sorry I do not understand the doable thingy that you speak of....Please read John 8 especially the part where Jesus speaks to the Jews who at one point stated "we have one Father—God.” and Jesus replied... John 8: 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47.

The singularity of God has little to do with the Shema being DOABLE as I relate the requisite of the second half to love this God with all of your heart soul and might. Since you seem to be stating that Jesus was ARGUING their view that there is one God the Father, let me iterate:

[SIZE=.75em]41 [/SIZE]Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Now your conclusion:

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[SIZE=.75em]43 [/SIZE]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[SIZE=.75em]44 [/SIZE]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[SIZE=.75em]45 [/SIZE]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[SIZE=.75em]46 [/SIZE]Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[SIZE=.75em]47 [/SIZE]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


Now where would Jesus be saying he is God? Only possibly from this clause:

for I proceeded forth and came from God.


Otherwise, NOWHERE is Jesus saying he himself is God. And I dispute the clause above does either. COMING from God is quite different than BEING God from God.

Two Gods are not kosher, and Jesus was a kosher Jew.

How maham CAN you see any differently than nothead? Consider these succeeding verses:

[SIZE=.75em]49 [/SIZE]Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
[SIZE=.75em]50 [/SIZE]And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

[SIZE=.75em]54 [/SIZE]Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
[SIZE=.75em]55 [/SIZE]Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

...and above especially, the Jews specifically asking him who and what he was:

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
[SIZE=.75em]25 [/SIZE]Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.



And who has Jesus consistently said to them he was? Messiah.

Messiah.


Messiah....



MESSIAH.


NEVER does he say he is God. NEVER does he say he is the One True God. NEVER. So what then does he mean when he says he has told them WHO he is from the beginning?

MESSIAH. Amen.

 

[Angelina]

Your posts are hard to follow ma'ahm. Since they don't make much sense. The Gentiles were not prosletyzed??Defn proselytize:1.convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
So then what was Paul doing, his missions and his travels if not this? See, your post STARTS out making no sense.

The Gentiles were Pagans nations like the Romans the Greeks, even the Samaritans and other nationalities, they were not numbered amongst the Jews. They could not be proselytized unless you take into account their pagan worship....which most do not.

Not all Israel are [true] Israel.

They were back in Deuteronomy when this verse was first given to them...

Conversely, all true Israel are not Jew. Rom 9:6. Wrong number two. You are batting 1000 so far. Whiffs that is.

All born-again believers are children of God and heirs to the promise which is eternal Life through Christ Jesus...there is no other way to God the Father accept through his Son. John 14:6, 1 John 5:11, 12... sorry your explanation leaves a lot to be desired ;)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Knothead .... before you go ranting off on your ten page posts ..... how about explaining in one paragraph what the hell you mean by Shema

 

[nothead]

Knothead .... before you go ranting off on your ten page posts ..... how about explaining in one paragraph what the hell you mean by Shema

Whoo hoo another chance to get on my soapbox...

Em take a deep breath, look up and say God give me grace...


And herrre it is the Shema:

Two parts as Jesus in Mark 12 describes it, since he cuts to the core and don't add too much which would confuse the dickens out of us, like those rabbis who add like 6 or 7 parts to Shema, Pundits of the Plethora, wandering for much of their lives in the desert...but I digress oh yeah what subject was we on...

Oh yeah, two parts, aw heck just quote the KJV:

[SIZE=.75em]29 [/SIZE]And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[SIZE=.75em]31 [/SIZE]And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
[SIZE=.75em]32 [/SIZE]And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[SIZE=.75em]33 [/SIZE]And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
[SIZE=.75em]34 [/SIZE]And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

So then where oh where did this come from? Jesus just plucked these out of his head? Nooo. It comes from the new Command which was given to the Israelites as they crossed the River Jordan into the Land of Milk and Honey, honey.

No you not honey, sorry since no gal wants the name "Arnie." Brother.

[SIZE=1.25em]6 [/SIZE]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SIZE=.75em]2 [/SIZE]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SIZE=.75em]3 [/SIZE]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SIZE=.75em]6 [/SIZE]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
[SIZE=.75em]7 [/SIZE]And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
[SIZE=.75em]8 [/SIZE]And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
[SIZE=.75em]9 [/SIZE]And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
[SIZE=.75em]10 [/SIZE]And it shall be, when the Lord thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,

Got any more questions, Arnie? Was that one paragraph? Sorry again, I hath sinned agin' thee.

 

[shturt678]

Godman ain't in the Bible sir. And I can go all day, at least 'til my juices run cold.

"Godman" is a contradiction in terms. In fact God said so when He informs us He cannot lie.

Num 23

[SIZE=.75em]19 [/SIZE]God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Heb 6

16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
[SIZE=.75em]17 [/SIZE]Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
[SIZE=.75em]18 [/SIZE]That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

So then my Jack of all majority opinion, this scripture is exactly Paul's point: God's promises are good, since he AIN'T and never was a man.

Thank you again for your response!

Maybe you're correct on this one ergo let's run Heb.1:3, "sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high" through IIPet.1:20-21, ie, Ps.110:1. Doesn't this refer to God + man = God-man? That is referring to Christ's human nature, ie, His human nature was personally UNITED with the Son of the Highest, correct?

Council of Trent, 811, where thre reason is stated in 821: Hence we believe that is in deed and truth, exalted according to his human nature to the right hand of the almight majesty and power of God, because he (that man) was assumed into God when he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in his mother's womb, and his human nature was personally united with the Son of the Highest." Recall the ol' "Realiter" routine?

Old Jack trying to find his towel again, ie, old age thing.

 

[nothead]

Thank you again for your response!

Maybe you're correct on this one ergo let's run Heb.1:3, "sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high" through IIPet.1:20-21, ie, Ps.110:1. Doesn't this refer to God + man = God-man? That is referring to Christ's human nature, ie, His human nature was personally UNITED with the Son of the Highest, correct?

Council of Trent, 811, where thre reason is stated in 821: Hence we believe that is in deed and truth, exalted according to his human nature to the right hand of the almight majesty and power of God, because he (that man) was assumed into God when he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in his mother's womb, and his human nature was personally united with the Son of the Highest." Recall the ol' "Realiter" routine?

Old Jack trying to find his towel again, ie, old age thing.

What, you a magician or something? Listen to yourself, saying Jesus 1) sits at the right hand of God 2) through this verse and that one, must somehow since he SITS NEXT TO GOD, must be huminah, vanishah, rabbit out of the hatimuh....

God himself. Two Gods, one sitting at the right hand of the other. Jack if the Bible actually portrays this, please show it. The singular God is NEVER EVER EVER EVER


EVER EVER EVER portrayed as two on the throne or three on the throne of majesty. Verdad.

 

[shturt678]

What, you a magician or something? Listen to yourself, saying Jesus 1) sits at the right hand of God 2) through this verse and that one, must somehow since he SITS NEXT TO GOD, must be huminah, vanishah, rabbit out of the hatimuh....

God himself. Two Gods, one sitting at the right hand of the other. Jack if the Bible actually portrays this, please show it. The singular God is NEVER EVER EVER EVER


EVER EVER EVER portrayed as two on the throne or three on the throne of majesty. Verdad.

Thank you again for your response and caring.

Before you throw the towel in and begging for mercy, you'll become a Davidic Ps.110:1 kind of disciple like me, ie, "The oracle of YHWH unto my Lord: "Sit thou at My right hand, Until I make thine enemies The stool of thy feet." See, you're liking it already? Will spare you he details for now, ie, one of my more favorite Psalms, ie, will be yours soon.

We need to lower you a notch down to my paygrade, ie, bring aboard the document of Revelation, eg, Rev.3:21 for openers, "did sit with my Father in his throne." Christ died as the Victor ascending to heaven, and sat down at the right hand of majestry and power. Only testing the waters to see if your can handle a 'meat' of the Word, ie, presently looking for my false teeth at this moment as lunch time.
Old Jack

 

[nothead]

Thank you again for your response and caring.

Before you throw the towel in and begging for mercy, you'll become a Davidic Ps.110:1 kind of disciple like me, ie, "The oracle of YHWH unto my Lord: "Sit thou at My right hand, Until I make thine enemies The stool of thy feet." See, you're liking it already? Will spare you he details for now, ie, one of my more favorite Psalms, ie, will be yours soon.

We need to lower you a notch down to my paygrade, ie, bring aboard the document of Revelation, eg, Rev.3:21 for openers, "did sit with my Father in his throne." Christ died as the Victor ascending to heaven, and sat down at the right hand of majestry and power. Only testing the waters to see if your can handle a 'meat' of the Word, ie, presently looking for my false teeth at this moment as lunch time.
Old Jack

The OT paradigm is yes, the right hand is on the throne. I modify here and now my paradigm.

Not as equal. So then I did not repent all the way as you might mean: "throw in the towel."

Right hand of Jesus ain't God, or equal to him neither. Right hand of God ain't God, that makes two Gods on the throne.

Two Gods on the throne is outside the bounds of kosherability, in the technicalability of theologicalbility.

 

[Questor]

[SIZE=12pt]My Brother, you are at a MainC Forum…therefore you must explain things, and yet without boring everyone to death.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]To those listening in…the Sh’ma is the prayer that goes:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hear, Oh Israel! The Lord thy God, the Lord is ONE.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hear, Oh Israel! YHVH thy Elohim, YHVH is one. Single 0. Echad[/SIZE].

[SIZE=12pt]Which all Christians know, because they recognize the single nature of the Godhead. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]How many ways that Abba chooses to disport Himself is as shows in the Scriptures…Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Arguing over the wording is pointless. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]No one can describe in full how Abba takes form except that the word Elohim is a plural unity, and YHVH works in all the Scriptures, Tanakh and Brit Chadashah (Old and New Covenants) in one of three ways…Creator/Father, Savior/Son, and the Breath/Holy Spirit. [/SIZE]


As for Law versus Grace...Everybody needs both!

[SIZE=12pt]Jews need Yehoshua, and to keep obeying Torah. Whether they want to follow the Mishna and the Talmud is a cultural matter...not a salvation matter.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Christians Need Yehoshua, and to learn obedience. That means learning Basic Torah! Yep, all of Genesis through Deuteronomy, minus the Levitical laws that pertain to the temple. [/SIZE]


Grace is needed by all, because we can never do it all...but we should try...every day.

Grace without works is given for trust...not just assent. You do have to do something!



Loving G-d and Loving Others is the proof of your trust in Yehoshua, and is the only evidence of it



Matthew 7:21-27 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.



Sorry to yell, but this has to be realized by everyone without arguing about it. Sha'ul said it one way...James another, but they both said the same thing. Grace without Works is salvation. This is our hope. Works alone get you nothing, because you cannot do it perfectly. Yehoshua does the Grace...it cannot be earned. But we do the works, to show our love for Yehoshua.

Is it clear yet?

Working Iniquity shows you have no salvation. Doing nothing shows you are not filled by the Holy Spirit, and that you are not changed, or that you have walked off the path, and walked in dis-obedience long enough to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit...and that is the only sin that Grace does not cover.

Gentiles do not become Jews...but we obey G-d anyway, just as Yehoshua did, picking up our cross, and following in His footsteps!

Your posts are hard to follow ma'ahm. Since they don't make much sense. The Gentiles were not prosletyzed??

Defn proselytize:1.

convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.


So then what was Paul doing, his missions and his travels if not this? See, your post STARTS out making no sense.






Not all Israel are [true] Israel. Conversely, all true Israel are not Jew. Rom 9:6. Wrong number two. You are batting 1000 so far. Whiffs that is.



The singularity of God has little to do with the Shema being DOABLE as I relate the requisite of the second half to love this God with all of your heart soul and might. Since you seem to be stating that Jesus was ARGUING their view that there is one God the Father, let me iterate:

[SIZE=.75em]41 [/SIZE]Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Now your conclusion:

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[SIZE=.75em]43 [/SIZE]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[SIZE=.75em]44 [/SIZE]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[SIZE=.75em]45 [/SIZE]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[SIZE=.75em]46 [/SIZE]Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[SIZE=.75em]47 [/SIZE]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


Now where would Jesus be saying he is God? Only possibly from this clause:

for I proceeded forth and came from God.


Otherwise, NOWHERE is Jesus saying he himself is God. And I dispute the clause above does either. COMING from God is quite different than BEING God from God.

Two Gods are not kosher, and Jesus was a kosher Jew.

How maham CAN you see any differently than nothead? Consider these succeeding verses:

[SIZE=.75em]49 [/SIZE]Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
[SIZE=.75em]50 [/SIZE]And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

[SIZE=.75em]54 [/SIZE]Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
[SIZE=.75em]55 [/SIZE]Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

...and above especially, the Jews specifically asking him who and what he was:

[SIZE=.75em]24 [/SIZE]I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
[SIZE=.75em]25 [/SIZE]Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.



And who has Jesus consistently said to them he was? Messiah.

Messiah.


Messiah....



MESSIAH.


NEVER does he say he is God. NEVER does he say he is the One True God. NEVER. So what then does he mean when he says he has told them WHO he is from the beginning?

MESSIAH. Amen.

YHVH is Creator/Father, all in all. In Him rests Yehoshua, and the Ruach haKodesh.

Yehoshua is 'right arm' and 'Word' of G-d...not all of G-d! They are one in their essence, their soul, because when Yehoshua returns to the Father, He is seated in G-d's throne, to the right of YHVH.

Sounds like an arm and a voice returning to the use of the Father...absorbed...re-incorporated...but that's just the way it sounds. How Abba and Yehoshua interact is not really our concern, although I would probably describe their hugs as being a merging of two back into Echad. The Ruach doesn't really ever disconnect from the Father, so far as one can see. The Ruach seems to be breathed in and out...sent out and dispersed, and then gathered back again, and yet always there. Hmmm.

I rather doubt that Abba maintains any form in particular...He is Knowledge and Power (Omnipotent) and is Everywhere (Omnipresent)...He is VERY big. Too big to be in the universe. But if He would wrap me around a finger, and wear me as a ring, I would be delighted!

Still, Messiah is unique...sent from the Father, and yet also Adopted as Son when He is in human form! Endowed with power and rights that are G-ds alone, and yet human for a time, that Abba could give a perfect, and willing sacrifice, which takes a sharing of purpose that descends from He that is All in All, and although being seperated, is still together.

And now, no longer human, but in Flesh and Bone, yet sitting in G-d's throne...Yehoshua is not all of YHVH, nor is the Ruach haKodesh.

Everything that is proceeds from YHVH, Yehoshua most of all.

 

[nothead]

[SIZE=12pt]My Brother, you are at a MainC Forum…therefore you must explain things, and yet without boring everyone to death.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]To those listening in…the Sh’ma is the prayer that goes:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hear, Oh Israel! The Lord thy God, the Lord is ONE.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hear, Oh Israel! YHVH thy Elohim, YHVH is one. Single 0. Echad[/SIZE].

[SIZE=12pt]Which all Christians know, because they recognize the single nature of the Godhead.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
Nature eh? Are we excited yet? God told the Israelites he was ECHAD and this was his nature, not nothin' else? Wow, humbug.

Your humbug theology is quite exciting. I am getting the shivers of near battle right now.

NATURE SHMATURE as a rabbinically honest Jew must say. You got your SHMUEL mixed up with your GROTKNOT and your YARMALUKE is now over you EYEBALLS, yiddishly sprechen.

The Shema was given as PESHAT LAW which you as a Jew wannabee must know what this is. Deut 30

[SIZE=.75em]10 [/SIZE]If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[SIZE=.75em]11 [/SIZE]For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[SIZE=.75em]12 [/SIZE]It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[SIZE=.75em]13 [/SIZE]Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[SIZE=.75em]14 [/SIZE]But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Deut 31

[SIZE=.75em]10 [/SIZE]And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
[SIZE=.75em]11 [/SIZE]When all Israel is come to appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.
[SIZE=.75em]12 [/SIZE]Gather the people together, men and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the Lord your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
[SIZE=.75em]13 [/SIZE]And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear theLord your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

So then do you sir think it wise to interpret the ONENESS of God as NATURE ONLY? IS this what God said or meant? WOULD a child know this thing, this OUSIA in Greek this NO SUCH THING in Hebrew? The nature of God eh? Now what would this be sir? Tell me the elements, the molecules the atoms and the electrons of essence regarding God.

The DNA or the genetics or the combination thereof. So that a CHILD would understand and fear his Lord and God sir.

Yeah I thought so. You yarmaluke is still over you eyes isn't it?

Hint: No Jew dead or alive ever thought to portray the NATURE of God. In ANY way shape or form. So saying it is shared with Holy Spirit and Son is quite a small bit of conjecture now wouldn't this be?

How many ways that Abba chooses to disport Himself is as shows in the Scriptures…Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Modalism. A Messianic Modalist is a rare animal. Art thee? No? Then this is moot and false from YOUR end. Your thinking end that is.

[SIZE=12pt]Arguing over the wording is pointless. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]No one can describe in full how Abba takes form except that the word Elohim is a plural unity, and YHVH works in all the Scriptures, Tanakh and Brit Chadashah (Old and New Covenants) in one of three ways…Creator/Father, Savior/Son, and the Breath/Holy Spirit. [/SIZE]

Oh? Arguing over wording is pointless? So what are ya doing here, dear? Arguing with your HANDS? Got a knife somewhere? What?

As for Law versus Grace...Everybody needs both!

Those with grace will love Shema and engage in loving God.

Jews need Yehoshua, and to keep obeying Torah. Whether they want to follow the Mishna and the Talmud is a cultural matter...not a salvation matter.

How do you know what Jews need to do? You rabbi tell you this?

[SIZE=12pt]Christians Need Yehoshua, and to learn obedience. That means learning Basic Torah! Yep, all of Genesis through Deuteronomy, minus the Levitical laws that pertain to the temple.[/SIZE]

You mean the Ten and Shema, basis of the Mosaic Law. Correction but good try.

Grace is needed by all, because we can never do it all...but we should try...every day.

Grace without works is given for trust...not just assent. You do have to do something!

Really? How about I go and muck about, shmooze with everyone and generally make all around me irritated? That's SOMETHING. Good enough for you, rabbi?

Loving G-d and Loving Others is the proof of your trust in Yehoshua, and is the only evidence of it

Why do you need evidence? Why does anyone else? I don't see yours. You don't see mine. So where are we, in La La Land?

Matthew 7:21-27 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

What is the Will of God for you sir? Do you know what it is for me? Rabbi?

Sorry to yell, but this has to be realized by everyone without arguing about it. Sha'ul said it one way...James another, but they both said the same thing. Grace without Works is salvation. This is our hope. Works alone get you nothing, because you cannot do it perfectly. Yehoshua does the Grace...it cannot be earned. But we do the works, to show our love for Yehoshua.

What about faith-works? Those works that the Holy Spirit directs us to? See your theology is still pretty elementary, dear.

Is it clear yet?

Yeah you a baby rabbi. Rabbi in training so to speak.

Working Iniquity shows you have no salvation. Doing nothing shows you are not filled by the Holy Spirit, and that you are not changed, or that you have walked off the path, and walked in dis-obedience long enough to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit...and that is the only sin that Grace does not cover.

Gentiles do not become Jews...but we obey G-d anyway, just as Yehoshua did, picking up our cross, and following in His footsteps!

A Jew is a heart condition in God's eyes I suspect. I don't know any yiddish but I can fake it. But thinking God is three-in-one abrogates the first of the Ten and the Shema both.

Not kosher, and not Jewish. Jews for Jesus stand aside, bow down grovel and place ashes on your head. I'll take on Dr. Anyone there.