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Question concerning the True Sin study

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Bamp;#39;midbar, Apr 8, 2007.

  1. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    I'm trying to follow the serpent and the tree argument. It says that nachash means "shining one" but gives no reason for that. The quote given from Strong's does not list this as the meaning. Rather, it says it means serpent. Why, then is it said to mean "shining one"?
     
  2. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    James Stong originally did this wonderful and amazing work in 1890 there have been many since revisions of this work... My copy is from 1977 and saysserpent but from the root,5172, to hiss to whisper... so mine also has been changed revised from the original translation of Dr. Strong...I know Swampfox has used the orginal... The authors instead of using the languge exclusive from all other, have used the translation of the KJV and our tradions to make it fit...It is a deception from the shining one....the one who whisperssssss.
     
  3. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    The root of the word - I apologize for not being more clear about that, I need to document a few numbers in Strong's: # H5172# H5174 #H5172 being the root of the word. Serpent being merely a connotation of the nature of the beast in this case. Instead of citing the verses, I'll give you Bullinger's appendix on the topic which does a wonderful job of providing further Scriptural documentation. http://www.levendwater.org/companion/append19.html This is, by far, not the only example of someone being called by an animal in the Bible.
     
  4. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    (SwampFox;8756)
    #H5172
    Thank you. I'm working on it, but so you know, I got your post. :study:
     
  5. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Take your time, you'll find no rush here. I'm not concerned if people agree with me or how fast they might. It's all about God and his Word, if I can just help inspire even a study or two where you reach your own conclusions, I'm happy. [​IMG]
     
  6. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    I thought I’d update the thread on how I’m coming along with the study, in case anyone has a helpful comment. I’d be the most appreciative to hear ideas about what “knowing good and evil” means as related to the quote I give below from Gen 3:22 involving God and the quote I give from the study itself. Oh, I have looked at the other link you gave me, to Bullinger, but I haven’t finished it yet. I have to work through the “beast” thing, for example. Thanks for that.I still cannot verify the “shining one” thing via any Hebrew lexicon that I own (TWOT and BDB), but I have devised something that works to replace it. That ancient serpent is Satan (Rev 12:9), and Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14). It was a serpent that deceived Eve, so perhaps that serpent is the ancient serpent meant, and perhaps he was in disguise. It seems especially apropos since in Rev 12 the ancient serpent makes war with the children from a woman (similar to Gen 3:15). I have no real issue with Satan being the tempter in the garden, and it is a traditional Christian interpretation. I found an interesting verse about serpents while poking about:
    Isaiah 27:1 On that day the LORD with his cruel and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will kill the dragon that is in the sea.
    I have never seen anyone say the tree itself is Satan before. I do agree that plants can signify other things, like how the vineyard of Yahweh Sabaoth is the house of Israel in Isa 5:7. I prefer to stay rooted in the literal meaning, though, and there is a serpent and a tree, two separate things.However, eating of something could be sexual, as in Proverbs 30:20 Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness. I think that is a description of many sinners, and not just adulteresses. It could just be that the eating represents the decision or action or sin.(from the study)
    He was given the title of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" because he knew good and evil. He knew good because he once served God; he then knew evil because he committed evil in his rebellion from the Father.
    This is an uncomfortable argument for me, because of how it makes God look in Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil… Whatever one makes of that tree, it had better not tread upon God. I suppose that leaves me wondering what does it mean to “know good and evil”. Maybe it depends on if you are God or if you are one of his creatures. Good and evil considered together in the context of a tree of life and a tree that leads to death makes me think of:
    Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
     
  7. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Consider this about the tree, though. Proverbs 3:18She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. The 'she' here is wisdom and the same word is used of her being a tree of life. Proverbs 11:30The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. At this point, I will just point this out as an aside, but the phrase only shows up in three books of the Bible: the beginning in Genesis, Proverbs, and the end of this age in Revelation. It's my contention that in all three books it's used as a metaphor. Notice how the tree of life shows up in the end and everyone is appointed access to it. Now consider it in Genesis 3 where it's not allowed. It was appointed for a time and a place: I Peter 1:19-20But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Remember that as a follower of Christ, we are in Christ and He in us.
    This is an uncomfortable argument for me, because of how it makes God look in Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil… Whatever one makes of that tree, it had better not tread upon God. I suppose that leaves me wondering what does it mean to “know good and evil”. Maybe it depends on if you are God or if you are one of his creatures. Good and evil considered together in the context of a tree of life and a tree that leads to death makes me think of:
    Right, but consider also that Satan was already condemned - he's doomed to turn to ashes from within. (Ezekiel 28) We, on the other hand, now have access to that tree of life. God didn't create a fruit that contained all the knowledge in it and then sat it in the garden and said for us not to eat from it. That verse you quoted above, Deuteronomy 30:19, does the job of putting it in perspective. There were two trees in the garden for a reason. The father of lies sat over there and beguiled Eve and then Adam through his lies that all started with one simple statement... "Yea hath God said..."
     
  8. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    I also look to Genesis 3:7... when explaining this to some... they knew they were naked and sewed an apron to cover their nether regions... not their mouths ...
     
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