Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus?

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My confession
My mother gave me a King James Bible when I was a child. Seventy-one (71) years later I still have it. My bible has numerous marker tags highlighting what I found interesting and worth reminding me of for future review.

I began by reading the New Testament which is full of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus taught us how to be kind to others, as in the stranger but most of all Jesus used the Book of Ezekiel one of the major prophetic books in the Old Testament. It records six visions of the prophet Ezekiel, exiled in Babylon, during the 22 years from 593 to 571 BC.

The visions, and the book, are structured around three themes: (1) Judgment on Israel (chapters 1–24); (2) Judgment on the nations (chapters 25–32); and (3) Future blessings for Israel (chapters 33–48). Its themes include the concepts of the presence of God, purity, Israel as a divine community, and individual responsibility to God.
Book of Ezekiel - Wikipedia

During this period Jerusalem was under the rule of the Romans which the local community strongly rejected.

More famous Jewish teachers come from Galilee than anywhere else in the world. They were known for their great reverence for Scripture and the passionate desire to be faithful to it. This translated into vibrant religious communities, devoted to strong families, their country, whose synagogues echoed the debate and discussions about keeping the Torah. They resisted the pagan influences of Hellenism far more than did their Judean counterparts. When the great revolt against the pagan Romans and their collaborators (66-74 AD) finally occurred, it began among the Galileans.
That the World May Know | Rabbi and Talmidim

in Palestine there were a number of occasions when more restless elements in the population resisted Roman abuses and followed the tradition of “zealousness for the Law.”

under the Romans (ruled 37-4 B.C.E.). Herod surrounded himself with Greek scholars and undertook many building projects, including a magnificent and fortified palace. He rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem.

Before he died, Jesus of Nazareth was born.

Life for the Jews under the procurators was exceedingly difficult. This protrait is confirmed by the Jewish historian Josephus who chronicled a number of events that provoked the Jews under Pilate and other procurators, leading to riots, beatings, and executions.

The last procurators in particular were indifferent to Jewish religious sensibilities; and various patriotic groups, to whom nationalism was an integral part of their religion, succeeded in polarizing the Jewish population and bringing on the first war with Rome in 66. The climax of the war, as noted earlier, was the destruction of the Temple in 70, though, according to Josephus, Titus sought to spare it.

Bar Kokhba Revolt, also called Second Jewish Revolt, (132–135 CE), Jewish rebellion against Roman rule in Judaea. The revolt was preceded by years of clashes between Jews and Romans in the area.
Bar Kokhba Revolt | History & Facts | Britannica

The history of the Jews in the Roman Empire

Rebellion in Judaea
Although Judaea was ruled by the Romans, the governors there had practiced the same kind of religious tolerance as was shown to Jews in Rome. However, Roman tactlessness and inefficiency, along with famine and internal squabbles, led to a rise in Jewish discontent.

In 66 AD, this discontent exploded into open rebellion. Four years later, the Roman army had crushed the revolt, but had also destroyed the temple. The sacred treasures were seized and shown off in a procession through the streets of Rome.
The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Jews In Roman Times | PBS

The history of Palestine is the study of the past in the region of Palestine, defined as the territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River (where Israel and Palestine are today). Strategically situated between three continents, Palestine has a tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. Palestine is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity and has been controlled by many kingdoms and powers, including Ancient Egypt, Persia, Alexander the Great and his successors, the Roman Empire, several Muslim dynasties, and the Crusaders. In modern times, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire.

The region was among the earliest in the world to see human habitation, agricultural communities and civilization. The Canaanites established independent city-states that were influenced by the surrounding civilizations, among them Egypt, which ruled the area in the Late Bronze Age. The Assyrians conquered Palestine in the 8th century BCE, then the Babylonians in c. 601 BCE, followed by the Persians who conquered the Babylonian Empire in 539 BCE. Alexander the Great conquered Palestine in the late 330s BCE, beginning a long period of Hellenization. In the late 2nd century BCE, the semi-independent Hasmonean kingdom conquered most of Palestine but the kingdom gradually became a vassal of Rome, which annexed Palestine in 63 BCE. Roman rule was troubled by Jewish rebellions, which Rome answered with by destroying the Jews' temple.

In the late 2nd century BCE, the semi-independent Hasmonean kingdom conquered most of Palestine but the kingdom gradually became a vassal of Rome, which annexed Palestine in 63 BCE. Roman rule was troubled by Jewish rebellions, which Rome answered with by destroying the Jews' temple.

History of Palestine - Wikipedia

The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. Jesus' crucifixion is described in the four canonical gospels, referred to in the New Testament epistles, attested to by other ancient sources, and is established as a historical event confirmed by non-Christian sources.

According to the canonical gospels, Jesus was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin, and then sentenced by Pontius Pilate to be scourged.

upload_2021-6-14_14-22-43.png
Sanhedrin Court

Jesus was stripped of his clothing and offered vinegar mixed with myrrh or gall to drink after saying "I am thirsty". He was then hung between two convicted thieves
upload_2021-6-14_14-23-33.png
Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

In the canonical gospels, Pilate's court refers to the trial of Jesus in praetorium before Pontius Pilate, preceded by the Sanhedrin Trial. Herod sees Jesus as no threat and returns him to Pilate.

upload_2021-6-14_14-24-22.png upload_2021-6-14_14-24-33.png
during the Sanhedrin trial, while Matthew adds an intermission during the trial before Pilate that narrates the suicide of Judas Iscariot.

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge. [Jn. 18:36]

Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia

Early in the morning the chief priests (Rabbis)and elders planned to have Jesus executed.

Thirty pieces of silver was the price for which Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, according to an account in the Gospel of Matthew 26:15 in the New Testament. Before the Last Supper

Pilate explained the amnesty vote and asked: 'Do you want me to release 'the king of the Jews'?'

Chief priests (Rabbis) and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. [Pilate says] I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'

Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Pilate tried to set Jesus free.

Jewish leaders: (Rabbis) If you let him go, you disobey Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.'
Pilate brought out Jesus around noon, saying: 'Here is your king.' They [Jewish leaders] shouted: 'Take him away, crucify him!'
Pilate: 'Shall I crucify your king?' Chief priests: 'We have no king but Caesar.'

Pilate handed Jesus over to them for crucifixion.

Early in the morning Jesus was taken to Pilate by the Jewish leaders (Rabbis)
Pilate, inside: 'Are you the king of the Jews?' Jesus: 'My kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would have fought to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders.'

Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
by the Jewish leaders under Pilate


In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body)[Rabbis]

Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, to be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews.
Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders (Rabbis) ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorities.
Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus.
Agree Or Disagree
?
 

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Robert Gwin

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Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus.
Agree Or Disagree
?


I wouldn't quite say forced sir, but I definitely understand your point. They manipulated Pilate through fear of his own execution to put Jesus to death, as they feared the ramifications from Jesus' followers. Pilate was a victim, as well as Jesus, and did his best to turn Jesus loose and to satisfy the dissidents at the same time. Keep in mind as well, that it was prophesied to happen that way. So while it was a horrible thing to all of us who love Jesus and Jehovah, very likely we would have had no impact on what happened if we were there and tried to alter the outcome. Perhaps you recall the stand Peter made when they came to arrest Jesus, and what Jesus told him.

While it was so horrible, and we are grieved by it, it is all over now, and Jesus accomplished what he was sent for. What a gift that was given in our behalf.
(Luke 18:31-33) . . .he took the Twelve aside and said to them: “Look! We are going up to Jerusalem, and all the things written by means of the prophets about the Son of man will be accomplished. 32 For instance, he will be handed over to men of the nations and will be mocked and treated insolently and spat on. 33 And after scourging him, they will kill him, but on the third day he will rise.”
(John 19:30) . . .When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and bowing his head, he gave up his spirit.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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In their minds the Pharisees, the Sanhedrin and the mob
may have thought they were manipulating Pilate's hand. Pilate also had to keep the peace in the region so felt pressured and threatened that if he didn't, kt would look bad for him and he could lose his job.
They were all guilty of murdering an innocent person.
I have to comment about Pilate washing his hands of the order to crucify Him. That was so fake, a very weak display of compassion, as if symbolically excusing him of any guilt.
Pilate nor the Jews were in charge of the scene, God was. Jesus told Pilate he had no power I re Him that God did not give him.
However it appeared, it was the Father's will and Jesus primary purpose to die for our sins. All the events that led up to that moment were completely orchestrated by God, and under His control.
 

Enoch111

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Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus?
There is a big difference between "forced" and "manipulated". Also "rabbis" are teachers, but not all the Jewish religious leaders were teachers. God already knew every detail in advance, but no one "forced" anyone to do anything. All decisions were voluntarily made, but it was a divine necessity for Jesus of Nazareth -- the King of the Jews -- to be crucified by the Romans. So each one fulfilled his part in this unique event in history.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
by the Jewish leaders under Pilate


In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body)[Rabbis]

Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, to be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews.
Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders (Rabbis) ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorities.
Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus.
Agree Or Disagree
?
[/QUOTE]

Well the Sanhedrin ( or the ones assembled against the law to try Jesus) did cooperate and pressure Pilate to kill Jesus, but make no mistake- only one had the authority to kill or release Jesus and that was Pilate. Just because he gave in to pressure from the Jewish leaders does not absolve him of his guilt!
 

DPMartin

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Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders (Rabbis) ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorit out, .ities.
Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus.
Agree Or Disagree
?

forced isn't correct because Rome had authority over Israel, made it politically expedient for pilot yes. not sure if you mentioned it or not but Israel didn't have the authority to execute what is now called corporal punishment, that was for Roman authority to decide, so the High Priest of the day had to go to the appropriate roman authority to execute some one. and Rome's relationship with the High Priest goes back to Maccabees Judas I do believe. Rome would deal directly with the High Priest as the Israeli authority.

anyway what is interesting also is it was the gentile authority that killed the Passover and bled meaning Jesus of course.
 
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All the events that led up to that moment were completely orchestrated by God, and under His control.
I’m sorry but I disagree with your interpretation of Gods power.

According to your interpretation of God’s power, God “could force” everyone to obey His commandments. I personally do not believe that is how God works.

First God singled out a group of people and called them His chosen.
God then gave them instructions on how they should live their lives.
God gave us the gift of choice.

That choice is ours alone to make, not Gods.
Humans are not puppets on a string

puppet.jpg
:)-
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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I’m sorry but I disagree with your interpretation of Gods power.

According to your interpretation of God’s power, God “could force” everyone to obey His commandments. I personally do not believe that is how God works.

First God singled out a group of people and called them His chosen.
God then gave them instructions on how they should live their lives.
God gave us the gift of choice.

That choice is ours alone to make, not Gods.
Humans are not puppets on a string

View attachment 15842
:)-
What does God's sovereignty mean then, if not in control of good and evil, a plan for mankind down to each individual? His ending is already written. If prophecy includes future events that will happen with precision, then nothing can offset, interupt and mess it up. Every individual plays a part, we cooperate with His plan in such a a way that it seems like we are in control of our future. If we are on our own thrones creating our own destinies, then there could be no certainties - including God's promises. That is a mistake to think that way.
NO, we aren't puppets. If we were then God would cause us to do all good. He allows us to experience evil for a purpose. Our mistakes are factored into His plan. We learn to appreciate God and His attributes (everything that is good) because we know evil. But sin and evil must be restrained/controlled and His chosen need to be protected even from our own mistakes.
Can you imagine if a person was written in the Book of Life, and God had a plan for them to be saved in such a way at a certain time. He orchestrates the whole scenario, arranging events, witnesses, ministries, a key invitation to church, a sermon on the radio, etc.; and this palm covers every hear of his life. But this person needs to go through certain experiences, lessons, tragedies, suffering, loss, before God can get his attention. His divine appointment may nit be until He is 70 years old.
You got IT? Now, what if this person's life is not under God's protection and control and He gets drunk one night and drives off a cliff? "Oh my, God says, my plan ... failed ... that free will I gave man really messed things up ... now he is lost ... Satan is out of control too ... he is taking too many of mine".
Satan can't do anything without God's permission. And God will not allow one of His sheep to be lost forever.
Either God is sovereign or chaos and chance rule the world. Chance actually has no power at all.
When I was saved, I realized that God was with me all along, protecting me many times, guiding me and eventually calling me.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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For one Israel did not exist at the time but for Jews and the remnants of Israel, the power of the Jews were lost as to God, we see this in St Stephen account of Israel's history in front of them all and that's why they Killed him, because they were of their Father of lies and were murders from the beginning in fact.
Now they leadership of the Jews may of known Jesus but for ? well they did not have eyes to see or ears to hear.
No the enemy only has images and elusions, behind witch he hides his true motives.

The Motives of the Jewish leadership were not in any regard to God at all, but were as Jesus pointed out that they were murders from the beginning and of their Father of lies.
The Jews as a majority were lost in fact as they were undermined by them who crept in ? remember that. as that's why the rot set in and they fell, because they turned their backs on God in fact and we end up with the remains who were worthy of the name Israel.
Remember the story of the Vineyard ? who is it representing ? the ones who had no true regards to God in fact, yes Jews they are, but not worthy of God at all, for they kill all of Gods Prophets and then God sent his only begotten Son ? now who is it that wants him out of the way as well ?

Look it's obvious that they were trying to kill Jesus or anyone who got in their way, now Saul woke up, he heard what St Stephen was saying in Acts and seen him murdered and knew that his face was that of an Angel. now God woke Paul up and he knew Jesus was the Christ in fact and started preaching the Truth ! so the Leadership of the Jews was in fact just as Jesus said it was of in fact. they were not worthy of God and the building was blasphemy to God, it was built as a work of Man, just worthless religious rubbish, nothing to do with Gods Salvation at all.
 
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For one Israel did not exist at the time but for Jews and the remnants of Israel, the power of the Jews were lost as to God, we see this in St Stephen account of Israel's history in front of them all and that's why they Killed him, because they were of their Father of lies and were murders from the beginning in fact.
Now they leadership of the Jews may of known Jesus but for ? well they did not have eyes to see or ears to hear.
No the enemy only has images and elusions, behind witch he hides his true motives.

The Motives of the Jewish leadership were not in any regard to God at all, but were as Jesus pointed out that they were murders from the beginning and of their Father of lies.
The Jews as a majority were lost in fact as they were undermined by them who crept in ? remember that. as that's why the rot set in and they fell, because they turned their backs on God in fact and we end up with the remains who were worthy of the name Israel.
Remember the story of the Vineyard ? who is it representing ? the ones who had no true regards to God in fact, yes Jews they are, but not worthy of God at all, for they kill all of Gods Prophets and then God sent his only begotten Son ? now who is it that wants him out of the way as well ?

Look it's obvious that they were trying to kill Jesus or anyone who got in their way, now Saul woke up, he heard what St Stephen was saying in Acts and seen him murdered and knew that his face was that of an Angel. now God woke Paul up and he knew Jesus was the Christ in fact and started preaching the Truth ! so the Leadership of the Jews was in fact just as Jesus said it was of in fact. they were not worthy of God and the building was blasphemy to God, it was built as a work of Man, just worthless religious rubbish, nothing to do with Gods Salvation at all.
somethings need repeating until heard
Thank you Reggie Belafonte, for your thoughtful post
 
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charity

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Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders (Rabbis) ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorities.
Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus.
Agree Or Disagree
?
'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;
He hath put Him to grief:
when Thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed,
He shall prolong His days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied:
by His knowledge shall My righteous Servant justify many;
for He shall bear their iniquities.'

(Isa 53:10-11)

Hello @pleaseforgiveme,

I think of the words of God spoken by Peter in Acts 2:22-33, and Acts 3:13-26 make clear whether this is true or not, but it should also be remembered that this occurred according to 'the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God' (Acts 2:22-24):-

* Peter said in Acts 3:13-21 to the people of Israel:-

'The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Jesus;
whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, when He was determined to let him go.
But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know:
yea, the faith which is by Him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.'

(Act 3:13-21)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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JunChosen

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but it should also be remembered that this occurred according to 'the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God' (Acts 2:22-24):-

Good insight. But the above quote should have been better served if translated thus: "the determinate counsel and [fore-love] of God."

To God Be The Glory
 

Curtis

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My confession
My mother gave me a King James Bible when I was a child. Seventy-one (71) years later I still have it. My bible has numerous marker tags highlighting what I found interesting and worth reminding me of for future review.


The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. Jesus' crucifixion is described in the four canonical gospels, referred to in the New Testament epistles, attested to by other ancient sources, and is established as a historical event confirmed by non-Christian sources.

According to the canonical gospels, Jesus was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin, and then sentenced by Pontius Pilate to be scourged.

View attachment 15626
Sanhedrin Court

Jesus was stripped of his clothing and offered vinegar mixed with myrrh or gall to drink after saying "I am thirsty". He was then hung between two convicted thieves
View attachment 15628
Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

In the canonical gospels, Pilate's court refers to the trial of Jesus in praetorium before Pontius Pilate, preceded by the Sanhedrin Trial. Herod sees Jesus as no threat and returns him to Pilate.

View attachment 15629 View attachment 15630
during the Sanhedrin trial, while Matthew adds an intermission during the trial before Pilate that narrates the suicide of Judas Iscariot.

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge. [Jn. 18:36]

Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia

Early in the morning the chief priests (Rabbis)and elders planned to have Jesus executed.

Thirty pieces of silver was the price for which Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, according to an account in the Gospel of Matthew 26:15 in the New Testament. Before the Last Supper

Pilate explained the amnesty vote and asked: 'Do you want me to release 'the king of the Jews'?'

Chief priests (Rabbis) and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. [Pilate says] I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'

Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Pilate tried to set Jesus free.

Jewish leaders: (Rabbis) If you let him go, you disobey Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.'
Pilate brought out Jesus around noon, saying: 'Here is your king.' They [Jewish leaders] shouted: 'Take him away, crucify him!'
Pilate: 'Shall I crucify your king?' Chief priests: 'We have no king but Caesar.'

Pilate handed Jesus over to them for crucifixion.

Early in the morning Jesus was taken to Pilate by the Jewish leaders (Rabbis)
Pilate, inside: 'Are you the king of the Jews?' Jesus: 'My kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would have fought to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders.'

Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
by the Jewish leaders under Pilate


In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body)[Rabbis]

Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, to be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews.
Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders (Rabbis) ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorities.
Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus.
Agree Or Disagree
?

Disagree.

No one killed Jesus.

He said no man could take His life - He voluntarily laid it down.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He told Pilate that he had no real power over Him:

Joh 19:10 So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?”

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above

And if Jesus had changed His mind about dying for us, there were thousands of angels standing by, to rescue Him:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

So the correct answer is no one killed Jesus involuntarily.

Shalom Aleichem
 

charity

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Disagree.

No one killed Jesus.

He said no man could take His life - He voluntarily laid it down.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He told Pilate that he had no real power over Him:

Joh 19:10 So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?”

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above

And if Jesus had changed His mind about dying for us, there were thousands of angels standing by, to rescue Him:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

So the correct answer is no one killed Jesus involuntarily.

Shalom Aleichem

'Then said Jesus,
"Father, forgive them;
for they know not what they do. ... ... "

(Luke 23:34a)
 
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'Then said Jesus,
"Father, forgive them;
for they know not what they do. ... ... "
Jesus may have wanted the Rabbis forgiven for their premeditated murder, but I believe God well not/did not forgive them

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge.
Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia


Early in the morning the chief priests and elders planned to have Jesus executed.
Pilate had Jesus flogged. Soldiers put a crown of thorns and purple robe on Jesus, hit his face and mocked him saying: 'Hail, king of the Jews!'
Pilate, outside, repeated his not guilty verdict and presented Jesus: 'Here is the man!'

Chief priests [Rabbis] and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'
Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Jesus: 'You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.' Pilate tried to set Jesus free.
Pilate: 'You are a king, then!' Jesus: 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.' Pilate: 'What is truth?'

Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body) (NOTE: the Jewish leaders were Rabbis) following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to the trial before Pontius Pilate.

In conclusion, after reviewing all the available written facts concerning Jesus Christ, I find overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins but was murdered by the Romans, at the request of the local Rabbis in Jerusalem and in return, the revolt against the Roman occupation would stop.

Jesus was teaching the Book of Ezekiel which portrayed the Jewish people badly.
Book of Ezekiel - Wikipedia

The Rabbis wanted Jesus’ to shut up and the Romans wanted the rebellion to stop. Having Jesus killed solved both problems.
 
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charity

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Jesus may have wanted the Rabbis forgiven for their premeditated murder, but I believe God well not/did not forgive them

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge.
Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia


Early in the morning the chief priests and elders planned to have Jesus executed.
Pilate had Jesus flogged. Soldiers put a crown of thorns and purple robe on Jesus, hit his face and mocked him saying: 'Hail, king of the Jews!'
Pilate, outside, repeated his not guilty verdict and presented Jesus: 'Here is the man!'

Chief priests [Rabbis] and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'
Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Jesus: 'You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.' Pilate tried to set Jesus free.
Pilate: 'You are a king, then!' Jesus: 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.' Pilate: 'What is truth?'

Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body) (NOTE: the Jewish leaders were Rabbis) following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to the trial before Pontius Pilate.

In conclusion, after reviewing all the available written facts concerning Jesus Christ, I find overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins but was murdered by the Romans, at the request of the local Rabbis in Jerusalem and in return, the revolt against the Roman occupation would stop.

Jesus was teaching the Book of Ezekiel which portrayed the Jewish people badly.
Book of Ezekiel - Wikipedia

The Rabbis wanted Jesus’ to shut up and the Romans wanted the rebellion to stop. Having Jesus killed solved both problems.

'Then said Jesus,
Father, forgive them;
for they know not what they do.
And they parted His raiment,
and cast lots.'

(Luke 23:34)

Hello @pleaseforgiveme,

In reply #13 @Curtis responded to an entry of yours, which was very good, and I don't think I can improve on it. Listen to the Lord's own words in John 12:-

'Now is My soul troubled;
.. and what shall I say?
.... "Father, save me from this hour:"
...... but for this cause came I unto this hour.
........ "Father, glorify Thy Name."'

Then came there a voice from heaven, saying,
,, "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."
The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered:
.. others said, "An angel spake to Him."
Jesus answered and said,
.. "This voice came not because of Me,
.... but for your sakes.
...... Now is the judgment of this world:
........ now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
.......... And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
............ will draw all men unto Me."
This He said, signifying what death He should die.'

(John 12:27-33)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Curtis

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'Then said Jesus,
"Father, forgive them;
for they know not what they do. ... ... "

(Luke 23:34a)
Because they were fulfilling the prophecy and the mission came to earth for
 

Reggie Belafonte

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Jesus may have wanted the Rabbis forgiven for their premeditated murder, but I believe God well not/did not forgive them

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge.
Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia


Early in the morning the chief priests and elders planned to have Jesus executed.
Pilate had Jesus flogged. Soldiers put a crown of thorns and purple robe on Jesus, hit his face and mocked him saying: 'Hail, king of the Jews!'
Pilate, outside, repeated his not guilty verdict and presented Jesus: 'Here is the man!'

Chief priests [Rabbis] and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'
Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Jesus: 'You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.' Pilate tried to set Jesus free.
Pilate: 'You are a king, then!' Jesus: 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.' Pilate: 'What is truth?'

Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body) (NOTE: the Jewish leaders were Rabbis) following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to the trial before Pontius Pilate.

In conclusion, after reviewing all the available written facts concerning Jesus Christ, I find overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins but was murdered by the Romans, at the request of the local Rabbis in Jerusalem and in return, the revolt against the Roman occupation would stop.

Jesus was teaching the Book of Ezekiel which portrayed the Jewish people badly.
Book of Ezekiel - Wikipedia

The Rabbis wanted Jesus’ to shut up and the Romans wanted the rebellion to stop. Having Jesus killed solved both problems.
Yes it all points out Man to be the problem due to Sin leading them astray, it's called this world by Christ Jesus. what is needed Christ Jesus gives, that's the Key, we understand the workings of Man in all this and this world, that's the point.

When people make claims of no one was guilty well that's Satanic ! only on possessed would say such nonsense, they were guilty of Sin and we better believe it, only a Jew would make out that they are working with God on such a subject, as in the means to an end and you see a lot of that nonsense nowadays again being promoted.
The point of that Jesus said, they know not what they do, has to do with the state of such people who have not the Holy Spirit, but are carnal Man who is religious, even an atheist is religious as well, religion never saved anyone's Soul.
We have many religious denominations even so called Christian denominations and sadly such denominations are first most a business who cast Jesus as just one part of their religion especially nowadays and that's why they will peddle the 2ed coming so much, because Christ Jesus does not cut it for them, so they seek another Jesus that will cover their Sin led world. they are into the works of Man. they are going to make a world without Jesus Christ. for they are lost.
 

Curtis

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Yes it all points out Man to be the problem due to Sin leading them astray, it's called this world by Christ Jesus. what is needed Christ Jesus gives, that's the Key, we understand the workings of Man in all this and this world, that's the point.

When people make claims of no one was guilty well that's Satanic ! only on possessed would say such nonsense, they were guilty of Sin and we better believe it, only a Jew would make out that they are working with God on such a subject, as in the means to an end and you see a lot of that nonsense nowadays again being promoted.
The point of that Jesus said, they know not what they do, has to do with the state of such people who have not the Holy Spirit, but are carnal Man who is religious, even an atheist is religious as well, religion never saved anyone's Soul.
We have many religious denominations even so called Christian denominations and sadly such denominations are first most a business who cast Jesus as just one part of their religion especially nowadays and that's why they will peddle the 2ed coming so much, because Christ Jesus does not cut it for them, so they seek another Jesus that will cover their Sin led world. they are into the works of Man. they are going to make a world without Jesus Christ. for they are lost.


So now Jesus is satanic for saying no man killed Him, because no man has power to take His life, and He lay it down voluntarily?

Wow. We quote Jesus himself, and get called satanic:

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He told Pilate that he had no real power over Him:

Joh 19:10 So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?”

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above

And if Jesus had changed His mind about dying for us, there were thousands of angels standing by, to rescue Him:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

So the correct answer is no one killed Jesus involuntarily.

Is there anything else Jesus said, that you consider satanic?

Maybe where He said He came not to bring peace, but a sword?
 
Last edited:
May 29, 2021
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Jesus may have wanted the Rabbis forgiven for their premeditated murder, but I believe God well not/did not forgive them

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge.
Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia


Early in the morning the chief priests and elders planned to have Jesus executed.
Pilate had Jesus flogged. Soldiers put a crown of thorns and purple robe on Jesus, hit his face and mocked him saying: 'Hail, king of the Jews!'
Pilate, outside, repeated his not guilty verdict and presented Jesus: 'Here is the man!'

Chief priests [Rabbis] and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'
Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Jesus: 'You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.' Pilate tried to set Jesus free.
Pilate: 'You are a king, then!' Jesus: 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.' Pilate: 'What is truth?'

Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'
In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body) (NOTE: the Jewish leaders were Rabbis) following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to the trial before Pontius Pilate.

In conclusion, after reviewing all the available written facts concerning Jesus Christ, I find overwhelming evidence that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins but was murdered by the Romans, at the request of the local Rabbis in Jerusalem and in return, the revolt against the Roman occupation would stop.

Jesus was teaching the Book of Ezekiel which portrayed the Jewish people badly.
Book of Ezekiel - Wikipedia

The Rabbis wanted Jesus’ to shut up and the Romans wanted the rebellion to stop. Having Jesus killed solved both problems.

The truth will set an honest person free but a zion remains stuck in lie lie land.