Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

[Taken]

The believers in a 'rapture' that I know are quite clear: they believe the Lord will take them to heaven, where they will consciously live until they Return to earth with Jesus for the Millennium reign.
I want to hear your belief, if it isn't the above.

Perhaps you could quote someone saying that.

Before the Great Tribulation...
Jesus will descend from Heaven to the Clouds, and Call UP TO Him, His Church...
Which is those IN Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

Yes, but do you believe we will be unconscious in the grave, or immediately in heaven while the rest of us who remain will be on earth?

I believe we live a dual natured life, and that present with me is the Adamic creation being, the old man, while also I am a new creation being, the spirit child of God. We are a new creation incarnated as it were in the old creation. I believe the new creation is not a formless nature, but a new being, with presence in the celestial realm.

In that we are housed in our terrestrial body, we experience through the bodies senses. But upon our death, we become separated from this body, and I believe we will experience according to our celestial body's senses, however that may be. We will see Jesus.

Being with Him now, having life in Him now, I believe we will continue to be with Him, and to have life in Him, even though our bodies may perish. To close our eyes here is to open them there.

So then while we are a celestial being, we experience a terrestrial life. When we die, the terrestrial ends, and we begin to experience our celestial life. In the resurrection I believe both will be blended as the mortal is clothed upon with immortality.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are trying to separate the Church in two. One Gentile, and one Jewish. There is only one church and it started with the Jews. Gentiles were grafted in UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, and THEN all the national Jews will come into the Church and be saved.

While I dislike being labeled with anything, since that invariably leads to me being ascibed views I do not hold, there are many examples . . . nonetheless . . . My views are largely dispensational, as it turns out.

God will fulfill His covenant that is between Him and Israel in a way that does not include the gentiles. Even as there was a time when God stopped sending the Gospel to Israel, and instead sent it to the gentiles.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I always think of this by Paul regarding physical death.

Philippians 1:
21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

That is such a good passge!

One of those places that we can read, and see for ourselves our own maturity. Is this how I feel?

Myself, I lived on self-gratification for far too long, now I want to remain and produce fruit from my labors, much as I would love to see Him! But we have only one go-round here, and I feel like I've wasted far too much of it!

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is rather strange, since the Bible makes it crystal clear that the souls and spirits of the saints go straight to heaven upon death.

You have to read my other posts on this. We are already in heaven.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I believe the new creation is not a formless nature, but a new being, with presence in the celestial realm.

Are you saying that there is no change in us on earth, bur just in heaven? I believe there is a dramatic change as our nature is born again and we are now a partaker of the nature of Christ.

But upon our death, we become separated from this body

I agree that our spirit goes to heaven while our body decays.

In the resurrection I believe both will be blended as the mortal is clothed upon with immortality.

I agree. I didn't quite understand your meaning in the other part.

 

[CharismaticLady]

While I dislike being labeled with anything, since that invariably leads to me being ascibed views I do not hold, there are many examples . . . nonetheless . . . My views are largely dispensational, as it turns out.

God will fulfill His covenant that is between Him and Israel in a way that does not include the gentiles. Even as there was a time when God stopped sending the Gospel to Israel, and instead sent it to the gentiles.

Much love!

It appears so. One such separation is aren't you a cessationist? I do not believe anything ceases inside our covenant, just as there wasn't in the old. So I believe in the gifts and that Jesus is not going to be a polygamist. He has one Bride made up of both Jews and Gentiles. I don't see any other doctrine in scripture for what you are claiming.

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑

I believe the new creation is not a formless nature, but a new being, with presence in the celestial realm.

Are you saying that there is no change in us on earth, bur just in heaven? I believe there is a dramatic change as our nature is born again and we are now a partaker of the nature of Christ.

I believe we are right now a new creation spirit child of God with celestial being in the celestial realm. We are partakers of God's nature, which is our life in Christ. It's not just that we have some new mental imprint or something that we are now live by. We are a completely different sort of being now.

We were the child of Adam, men and women of the earth, earthy. And now we are the spirit children of God, sharing the celestial image of the One from heaven, and in our resurrection, we will also share His physical fashion. Our vile bodies will be changed to be as His glorious body. But even now, our born again spirits, well, this is who we are, and who we will be.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It appears so. One such separation is aren't you a cessationist? I do not believe anything ceases inside our covenant, just as there wasn't in the old. So I believe in the gifts and that Jesus is not going to be a polygamist. He has one Bride made up of both Jews and Gentiles. I don't see any other doctrine in scripture for what you are claiming.

I'm not cessationist, no.

For instance, God promised Israel to return them to their land, and to be the head of the nations. I believe God will in fact do this. That every cooking pot in Jerusalem will be dedicated to temple worship and offerings. That the nations of the earth must come to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles. I think all these things will be fulfilled, and that they pertain to Israel, and not the other nations.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

@marks

You say, "It's not just that we have some new mental imprint or something that we are now live by."

Then you say, "We are a completely different sort of being now."

Those two statements the way I am understanding them seems contradictory?

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm not cessationist, no.

For instance, God promised Israel to return them to their land, and to be the head of the nations. I believe God will in fact do this. That every cooking pot in Jerusalem will be dedicated to temple worship and offerings. That the nations of the earth must come to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles. I think all these things will be fulfilled, and that they pertain to Israel, and not the other nations.

Much love!

It seems we are not interpreting "cessationism" the same way. Do you believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today, or that they ceased?

 

[marks]

@marks

You say, "It's not just that we have some new mental imprint or something that we are now live by."

Then you say, "We are a completely different sort of being now."

Those two statements the way I am understanding them seems contradictory?

Who we are now is more than a new set of brain waves or something like that. There is a spirit child of God who, before being born, didn't exist, but does now, living in the celestial realm.

So then this new creation is in the process of taking over the our actions and thoughts in this world, to make them to be as we are now, and not as we used to be then.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It seems we are not interpreting "cessationism" the same way. Do you believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today, or that they ceased?

I'm sorry, I realize how my post wasn't clear.

I believe the spiritual gifts are for today.

And aside from that, on a different note, this is one example of something that God has planned for Israel, that does not include gentiles:

For instance, God promised Israel to return them to their land, and to be the head of the nations. I believe God will in fact do this. That every cooking pot in Jerusalem will be dedicated to temple worship and offerings. That the nations of the earth must come to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles. I think all these things will be fulfilled, and that they pertain to Israel, and not the other nations.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is a spirit child of God who, before being born, didn't exist, but does now, living in the celestial realm.

It seems you believe this celestial child is what takes over our mind and guides us, where I believe it is the actual Spirit of God that indwells us and changes us immediately.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm sorry, I realize how my post wasn't clear.

I believe the spiritual gifts are for today.

And aside from that, on a different note, this is one example of something that God has planned for Israel, that does not include gentiles:

For instance, God promised Israel to return them to their land, and to be the head of the nations. I believe God will in fact do this. That every cooking pot in Jerusalem will be dedicated to temple worship and offerings. That the nations of the earth must come to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles. I think all these things will be fulfilled, and that they pertain to Israel, and not the other nations.

Much love!

Yes, I believe the promises to the nation of Israel will be fulfilled, separate from Gentiles.

So then you have gifts of the Spirit? Are they from 1 Corinthians 12 or Romans 12, or Mark 16? Or all three? And then those in Joel 2 also.

 

[marks]

It seems you believe this celestial child is what takes over our mind and guides us, where I believe it is the actual Spirit of God that indwells us and changes us immediately.

We are this celestial spirit child of God. We have this new life being united with the Holy Spirit. The renewing of the mind is bringing this new life to overwhelm the old way of life, to make our lives new, not just we ourselves, but all that we think do and say while in these bodies.

Yes, it is the Holy Spirit Who does all this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, I believe the promises to the nation of Israel will be fulfilled, separate from Gentiles.

So then you have gifts of the Spirit? Are they from 1 Corinthians 12 or Romans 12, or Mark 16? Or all three? And then those in Joel 2 also.

While I do think I have received spiritual gifts and empowerments from the Holy Spirit, I don't, as they say, "give my resume", as it's not important, only that we correctly understand the word.

I don't need to tell you what I think I'm gifted with, I don't think that adds to the discussion. I like to stay focused on understand the Bible, but not so much through the lens of my experience.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are this celestial spirit child of God. We have this new life being united with the Holy Spirit. The renewing of the mind is bringing this new life to overwhelm the old way of life, to make our lives new, not just we ourselves, but all that we think do and say while in these bodies.

Yes, it is the Holy Spirit Who does all this.

Much love!

That I can agree with, but does it say in the Bible anything about this born again spirit called "celestial"?

 

[CharismaticLady]

While I do think I have received spiritual gifts and empowerments from the Holy Spirit, I don't, as they say, "give my resume", as it's not important, only that we correctly understand the word.

I don't need to tell you what I think I'm gifted with, I don't think that adds to the discussion. I like to stay focused on understand the Bible, but not so much through the lens of my experience.

Much love!

You may think it is prideful to say, but I don't, though I have been accused.

The way I see it is the same as Paul. Anytime I can testify and confirm that the Word of God is true, that is boasting in the Lord, not in self. And if I can have them, so can others as I'm no one special. They are faith builders, and makes Christianity not a religion, but a real relationship where we can converse.

 

[marks]

You may think it is prideful to say, but I don't, though I have been accused.

The way I see it is the same as Paul. Anytime I can testify and confirm that the Word of God is true, that is boasting in the Lord, not in self. And if I can have them, so can others as I'm no one special. They are faith builders, and makes Christianity not a religion, but a real relationship where we can converse.

It's not that I think it's prideful, but I don't find it useful discussing theology and Biblical interpretation on a public forum. It too easily becomes about the person, instead to the Bible.

What If I were to tell you that God has gifted me to prophesy, in my teaching, so you should listen to everything I say?

Isn't it better to point to what the Bible teaches? And if I function in prophetic teaching, it will show in my correct understanding of Scripture, will it not?

I like what James wrote . . . the one embued with wisdom, let them show it by living the right life.

Besides, while Paul did "give his resume", it was for a particular purpose, and he equated doing so with lunacy, didn't he?

Much love!