Reciprocating Objects

[Netchaplain]

Do we collate our union and fellowship with the Father and the Son according to our obedience, or according to how we are to Them in the Son? Our obedience is the result of the Father’s work in us (Phl 2:13), which never needs to address the attainment of favor (already permanent in Christ), but rather to express love and gratitude for that which has been forever attained (Grace and Mercy).

The Christian has already and forever attained all acceptance, love and pleasure in and to the Father—through Jesus—which never requires re-attaining, that our hearts and minds can rest in the assurance of eternal acceptance with God, never according to what or who we are, but according to what and Who They are. Remember, if we encounter disappointment with self concerning our place in Christ, we have based our acceptance according to the “arm of flesh” instead of “the arm of God,” in which case there never need be disappointment.
-NC

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[SIZE=14pt]Reciprocating Objects[/SIZE]​

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As there is growth in Him there is more capacity for fellowship with Him, and this is increased as the heart is occupied with Him (2 Cor 3:18). The order is first “won”; this deepens as the heart learns His love in humiliation—He “loved me and gave Himself for me.” Second, “satisfied,” because you are in fellowship with Him where He is. The heart that is captivated by an object could never be at rest until it was with the one who had won it; for satisfaction you must be where He is—there is no company otherwise. The first desire of the true heart is to rest in the presence of the Lord Jesus—to be in personal nearness to Him.

In the Canticles we find that whenever He is presented, all is bright, but though there is true affection, and often deep delight, there cannot be satisfaction of heart until there is assured association and union with Him. But when there is satisfaction, there comes new occupation. All before related chiefly to oneself; but when the heart is satisfied, the occupation will be studying Him, and seeking to be suitable to Him. The loss is that many try to be suitable to Him, in order to satisfy their own hearts; then there is legality about it, and it bears the mark of seeking to make oneself the object rather than another.

Now when the heart is satisfied, it sits before the Lord and studies His mind, and enters on work just as it will please Him. All the previous activities of the heart are increased by each new one; that is, I feel the most won by Christ when I am satisfied by Him, and as I study Him, I am more won and satisfied. As I am satisfied I am “furnished” (2 Tim 3:17), and it is the adorned one that is qualified to be the serving one.

“The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her,” is the principle of the serving one, and as he is more won, more satisfied, more suitable, so is he more serving. The action of love is always to seek the company, the presence of the loved one, as Jonathan to David, and to express the love by making little of oneself. The answer to the sinner is, “Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace”; this is the confirmation given to the sinner at his first personal acquaintance with the Savior.

The saint has that love deepened, and as he is led on to association and fellowship, he is satisfied. Love does not think of anyone but its Object until it is quite sure of its place with Him, and then when at rest about itself it studies the mind and heart of its Object.

I find that Christ loved me, and gave Himself for me when I was in a most unattractive condition. But He makes me suitable to Himself, and I am assured of the permanency of His love and of my association with Him. Therefore my heart is free to study Him. The more I am in His company, the more I acquire the tastes which answer to His heart and mind.

When I rest in the Lord Jesus, then I begin to find all my joy and strength in Him, and I occupy myself with Him. This is the first step, or foundation, to true devotedness. I do not become devoted in the true sense until I have found my rest in Him. I am an object to Him, then my heart is at liberty to make His its object, He having made me His.

- J B Stoney

HAND HEWN –MJS
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

 

[DPMartin]

I don’t know there NetChaplain, it’s been my experience that those who preach obedience want others to obey them. It is one thing to make others aware that the Lord expects certain things of His People, but that’s usually a response to those who seek knowledge in order to obey. And it’s another to constantly harp on the same theme to those who have a disregard for obedience.

Obedience is already agreed to by the obedient, not the disobedient. The disobedient are what they are because they disagree. Hence not in agreement with, or in Christ Jesus no matter what they say. Therefore obedience is impossible, as the Lord would have obedience. But men would have obedience no matter how they got the result they wanted, and therefore would be judge of.

　
Considering it is obedience unto the Lord that only the Lord can Judge. As Paul teaches, each answer to their own lord. And when Peter asked of what John should do, Jesus answered "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

 

[Netchaplain]

I don’t know there NetChaplain, it’s been my experience that those who preach obedience want others to obey them.

We should be seeking only what Scripture instructs, and that taught by the Holy Spirit. Regardless of why and what others may presume of another, if their motive is not love and encouragement in the "word of truth," if will lack effective use of the Spirit of God. Our motive should always be Christ-centered and if not, it will find us out, but only for loving correction, not punishment or judgement.

 

[DPMartin]

We should be seeking only what Scripture instructs, and that taught by the Holy Spirit. Regardless of why and what others may presume of another, if their motive is not love and encouragement in the "word of truth," if will lack effective use of the Spirit of God. Our motive should always be Christ-centered and if not, it will find us out, but only for loving correction, not punishment or judgement.

Na, I disagree all together on that, you’re saying that destruction from leadership’s lack of genuine preaching and teaching in the Word of Truth is a acceptable reality. Not for those who have the Kingdom of God within them. And note, those who do preach disingenuously point to their justifications in scripture, and declare themselves lead by God.

 

[Netchaplain]

Na, I disagree all together on that, you’re saying that destruction from leadership’s lack of genuine preaching and teaching in the Word of Truth is a acceptable reality. Not for those who have the Kingdom of God within them. And note, those who do preach disingenuously point to their justifications in scripture, and declare themselves lead by God.

I'm only referring to genuine Christians because God is working on their growth. I find no necessity to accuse anything of an unbeliever, because it doesn't matter to him, nor of a believer, because accusing a Christian of being insincere is not spiritually correct. If they are His, He will do the correcting.

I believe all Christians (not those who just profess only) desire to do everything right, in accordance with God's written Word, so accusing them of anything wrong is not useful, thus it is better to find ways to be encouraging when dealing with what you might think is a problem with another.

 

[DPMartin]

I'm only referring to genuine Christians because God is working on their growth. I find no necessity to accuse anything of an unbeliever, because it doesn't matter to him, nor of a believer, because accusing a Christian of being insincere is not spiritually correct. If they are His, He will do the correcting.

I believe all Christians (not those who just profess only) desire to do everything right, in accordance with God's written Word, so accusing them of anything wrong is not useful, thus it is better to find ways to be encouraging when dealing with what you might think is a problem with another.

It seems to me that all you are doing is creating a self-made utopia of irresponsibility for what happens to others. That’s like saying you shouldn’t forewarn another of something or someone that you know can harm them, or is harm to them because it might be judgmental on your part. On one hand you’ve just talked about correction, and then now this. Sorry there NetChaplin, not buying it, either you walk or you don’t, either you stand or you don’t. The Apostles where as obedient as possible and still they were persecuted. When Jesus spoke the truth about the Pharisees and the Sadducees, was He accusing them? Paul wasn’t afraid to inform the Churches in his charge of what was correct and incorrect. And if the Hebrews heard what he had to say about how they have it wrong, they would try to kill him.

 

[Netchaplain]

It seems to me that all you are doing is creating a self-made utopia of irresponsibility for what happens to others. That’s like saying you shouldn’t forewarn another of something or someone that you know can harm them, or is harm to them because it might be judgmental on your part. On one hand you’ve just talked about correction, and then now this. Sorry there NetChaplin, not buying it, either you walk or you don’t, either you stand or you don’t. The Apostles where as obedient as possible and still they were persecuted. When Jesus spoke the truth about the Pharisees and the Sadducees, was He accusing them? Paul wasn’t afraid to inform the Churches in his charge of what was correct and incorrect. And if the Hebrews heard what he had to say about how they have it wrong, they would try to kill him.

I also agree that we should admonish one another in the Scriptures, but it's how you do it that matters. If it's not out of love it's not useful (not accusing you of such)--Eph 4:15. The Jesus and the Apostles were rebuking unbelievers when they were addressing the Jewish religious leaders.

"Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins" (Jam 5:20).

 

[DPMartin]

The Jesus and the Apostles were rebuking unbelievers when they were addressing the Jewish religious leaders.

Don’t be mistaken, the Hebrew leaders (king and priests) of the day believed, but would rather kill the Son of God, then relinquish any power and authority they saw He, meaning Jesus, would take from them. Remember what Herod did after the wise men told him there was a King born. Rather then see and prove that He is, Son of God, they used their authority to interpret what should be done to one who calls himself the Son of God.

Because they are not going to relinquish what they believed was their right to have, but yet it was Jesus who relinquished the fullness of His true power and walked in the restrictions of the flesh that was for the sake of others, even to the experience of death. And He was restored, as approved of the Father.

Think about it, this is the true faith that is of our Christ, that we be risen by virtue of birth right in Christ of the Holy Spirit. Jesus showed us His rights as the Son of God, which death has no power over.

 

[Netchaplain]

Don’t be mistaken, the Hebrew leaders (king and priests) of the day believed

Only those who had the faith like those in Hebrews 11 were not in unbelief ("remnant of Israel"), unlike those in Romans 11 (cf v 32--"all" meaning most), which consisted of the majority of Israel, even to this day.

 

[DPMartin]

Only those who had the faith like those in Hebrews 11 were not in unbelief ("remnant of Israel"), unlike those in Romans 11 (cf v 32--"all" meaning most), which consisted of the majority of Israel, even to this day.

No, again you misunderstand, the devil is no doubt a believer that there is a Creator and Judge and Jesus Christ is His Beloved Son, the Christ. Just because some one or something is against the fulfillment of God’s will for or in mankind, doesn’t necessarily make them an unbeliever.

 

[Netchaplain]

No, again you misunderstand, the devil is no doubt a believer that there is a Creator and Judge and Jesus Christ is His Beloved Son, the Christ. Just because some one or something is against the fulfillment of God’s will for or in mankind, doesn’t necessarily make them an unbeliever.

To me, there is believing about God, and believing in God. One can believe there is a God without believing in Him.

 

[DPMartin]

To me, there is believing about God, and believing in God. One can believe there is a God without believing in Him.

If someone believes something, then he will act according to the belief. If you are in combat and believe the calvary is coming with fire power to deliver you, then you wait it out or fight it out if that’s the situation. But if you are the enemy and believe and or know that the same calvary is coming you act accordingly. It’s not so much the differences in belief, it’s that the enemy knows the calvary is coming and would have you believe it’s not coming for you, just like it’s not coming to deliver them, that you may loss heart and quit and not be effective in the battle. Hence, do you trust that the calvary is coming to deliver you?