Regarding Baptism

[tom55]

[SIZE=medium]I think OzPen gave the best advice/answer. I can’t add anything to it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Born_Again said:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]What about the denoms that baptize a newborn? I personally don't agree with this as I think it is a good idea to know what you are doing that for. Is it the believe of those churches that the child will go to hell if they are not baptized? Feelings, thoughts?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]My thoughts:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I haven’t seen anything in scripture saying newborns can’t be baptized. It has been articulated by many biblical scholars that in the Old Testament the act of circumcision admitted you into the covenant of God. Baptism has taken the place of circumcision in the New Testament (new covenant). Also in scripture there are at least three stories of entire family’s being baptized. I suppose it is very probable that there were infants in those families and the thousands of families that were baptized together that aren’t mentioned in scripture. In historical writings, like the Didache and early church fathers/historians/theologians (whatever you want to call them), baptizing of infants is not forbidden and is even talked about as being a common practice. In summary scripture doesn’t say not to baptize infants and it kind of indicates that possibly infants were baptized and historically we know early Christians did baptize infants or didn’t forbid it. [/SIZE]

 

[newbirth]

David,

I'm reminded of what happened with Paul, Silas and the Philippian jailer's conversion:

There are some fundamental biblical principles taught in this passage:

1. A person must be saved (v 29);
2. Salvation comes through continuing to believe in the Lord Jesus - it's the Greek present tense of 'believe' (v. 31);
3. There was teaching/speaking of the word of the Lord to those who believed (v. 32);
4. That foundation means there is adequate belief and teaching to be baptized (v. 33).

Therefore, this should be all that is necessary for believer's baptism to occur.

However, I speak as a former pastor who is ordained with a Christian denomination. I've seen some people who confess faith in Jesus and are baptized but within months or years they have fallen away from the faith and are no longer serving Jesus. Therefore, some pastors take a cautious approach to allow for people to be established in their faith and to continue to 'bear fruit in keeping with repentance' (Matt 3:8 ESV) before they baptize them.

I was baptized by immersion at age 16, but I can tell you that that was too early for me. I was not mature enough to demonstrate fruit of repentance. My wife was baptized at the same age, but both of us agree that for some youth at age 16 can be too young as lack of knowledge of the faith and immaturity can influence this decision.

I'm not suggesting that this is the case with you because I don't know you. For how long have you been a Christian and are you growing in your faith? If I were to speak with someone in your congregation who knows you and ask the question, 'How strong is David in his faith?' what would he/she say? Sometimes a pastor is demonstrating wisdom when he asks for baptism to be delayed.

Remember the truth of Hebrews 13:17 (ESV), as a demonstration of fruit of repentance, 'Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be no advantage to you'.

I think it would be unwise to leave a congregation because the pastor (one of your leaders) does not think you are ready for baptism. Obey and submit will demonstrate that you are understanding Scripture and growing in your faith.

In Christ,
Oz

what do you mean too young? one is not too young to be born into this temporary life.....How then is 16yrs to young to be born again into eternal life....????

 

[OzSpen]

what do you mean too young? one is not too young to be born into this temporary life.....How then is 16yrs to young to be born again into eternal life....????

Please read what I wrote at #13. There I explain why 16 years of age can be too young to be baptised by immersion. We are not talking about age and eternal life, but age to be baptised.

 

[lforrest]

This is completely ridiculous. If David has received the Holy Spirit there is no reason for him not to be baptised.

Should he first prove his resolve and show some other manifestation of the Holy Spirit before he is accepted? Is that standard applied to all the bench warmers whos donations you would risk losing when they are offended?

I do not judge your pastor, David. He is aware of your troubles and may think your faith is founded only in the hope of healing, and not secure. You should be persistant if you really want to go to this church.

 

[TopherNelson]

I stopped going to church altogether. They are lukewarm and money is their God.

David

 

[tom55]

davidnelson:

I would like to help you out on your journey to become the best Christian (God knows I need more help) possible but some things you have posted in the past have confused me so I don't know in which direction to send you. Many on this site have given you good advise but good advise can only be properly given with a clear picture.

You said in March of this year: I had not receive the Eucharist yet. My step-father is atheist, mother is a Buddhist, and my stepbrothers and stepsister are baptist. I was baptist until God call me to his church. My parish priest said they will confirm me by Christmas next year if I join RCIA. I have one and a half year to go.

[SIZE=11.5pt]Then in May you said:[/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt] [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]With so many denominations, who is right? I now consider myself a former catholic and a born-again christian. I believe in [/SIZE]Jesus and that he died for our sins so that we could go to heaven. I believe in Jesus my Lord, my God. I will give Jesus, live Jesus and love Jesus.

[SIZE=11.5pt] You were a baptist (I presume as a child) and then in March you were [/SIZE]apparently[SIZE=11.5pt] in a Catholic Church and looking at joining them. Then in May you said you consider yourself a former Catholic/born again Christian. [/SIZE]Now you are saying you stopped going to church altogether and that Churches are all about money (attacking all churches).

[SIZE=11.5pt]What I see, but I don't know if anyone on this post will agree with me, is a young man who might be quickly loosing his faith and running from church/God. I could be wrong, but if I am right, I am concerned for you and will be praying for you. Since you are still posting on here I presume you haven't given up on Him or those of us on this site who love you and want to help you on your journey. I pray there is someone in your life you can go to in your time of need.[/SIZE]

 

[TopherNelson]

My journey started off when I was 14, less than a year ago. None of my family members except my step-sibings are Christians. Although they are Christians I didn't get much influence from them. I started attending a Roman Catholic church because it is directly next to my school. I decided to stop by one day. I started to get to know the parish priests and the bishop. They let me attend and asist in masses, they even allowed me to step foot on the altar.I was given special privellages. But they refused to baptize me fearing I wasn't strong in my faith.Stayed there for a few months, some part of me is telling me I should follow what the bibles says and I left the church. They were idolatrous, ask them who is Jesus and they will tell you it is that statue or that bread.
My last church is a Southern Baptist church (My step-siblings goes to this church). Raised millions for a new church building. Yet they peached to give to the poor. I asked to get baptize but they refused. Giving me the answer that I am too young. They required me to attend a class, I attended the first two and I wasn't quite happy with it. They treated me like some sort of receiver that have to receive everything they say. I stopped attending and never looked back.

I been going to church with my step-siblings before I was 14, but the holy spirit really came to me when I was 14.
Till this day I feel the presence of God. Although I don't attend church nor am I baptize with water. I still feel a really close relationship with God. When I am about to sin, I hear a little voice in my head telling me why I should not. I used to get mad and argue with people easily. But since I knew the Lord, each time I am about to get mad, a little voice in my head will tell me why I should not. Don't know how to describe it... but when I listen to the voice and did not give in to my sins, I will feel a charge of warmth all over my body. It is a very special feeling. I felt this after a payer too.

Last year was the worst year I lived. Both of my paternal grandparents passed away and I even loss a very good friend. It is during this time that I turned to the Lord and seek his love. Another thing is I can't get alone with anyone, not even my parents. They dislike me because of Christ. But what really hurts the most is losing a really good friend at my darkest time.

Through this all I learnt the Lord is my refuge, he is my God and I trust him. Brothers and sisters in Christ, don't worry about me but do pray for me and I'll pray for you!


Make the way clear for the Lord,
David


Psalm 40
I waited patiently for the Lord;
he turned to me and heard my cry.
He lifted me out of the slimy pit,
out of the mud and mire;
he set my feet on a rock
and gave me a firm place to stand.

He put a new song in my mouth,
a hymn of praise to our God.
Many will see and fear the Lord
and put their trust in him.
Blessed is the one
who trusts in the Lord,
who does not look to the proud,
to those who turn aside to false gods.
Many, Lord my God,
are the wonders you have done,
the things you planned for us.
None can compare with you;
were I to speak and tell of your deeds,
they would be too many to declare.
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire—
but my ears you have opened
burnt offerings and sin offerings[d] you did not require.

Then I said, “Here I am, I have come—
it is written about me in the scroll.
I desire to do your will, my God;
your law is within my heart.”
I proclaim your saving acts in the great assembly;
I do not seal my lips, Lord,
as you know.

I do not hide your righteousness in my heart;
I speak of your faithfulness and your saving help.
I do not conceal your love and your faithfulness
from the great assembly.
Do not withhold your mercy from me, Lord;
may your love and faithfulness always protect me.
For troubles without number surround me;
my sins have overtaken me, and I cannot see.
They are more than the hairs of my head,
and my heart fails within me.

Be pleased to save me, Lord;
come quickly, Lord, to help me.
May all who want to take my life
be put to shame and confusion;
may all who desire my ruin
be turned back in disgrace.
May those who say to me, “Aha! Aha!”
be appalled at their own shame.

But may all who seek you
rejoice and be glad in you;
may those who long for your saving help always say,
“The Lord is great!”
But as for me, I am poor and needy;
may the Lord think of me.
You are my help and my deliverer;
you are my God, do not delay

 

[tom55]

What I know of the Catholic Church it sounds like the priest and bishop were being very inviting of you and did give you special privileges by allowing you to to assist in the mass. Usually only Catholics are allowed to assist in the mass. What I understand of the Catholic church is that you (as an adult) have to go thru their RCIA program before you can be baptized and become a full member of the Catholic Church. So maybe it's not that they didn't want to baptize you; maybe they just couldn't until you finished the class? It sounds like they really wanted you to be there but you didn't want to be there. They do believe that the "bread" is the body of Christ, however, they don't believe you have to kiss or worship statues. Allot of churches have statues/paintings in them to recall the person or thing it depicts. Kind of like having pictures of family/friends in our wallet, on our phone or in our house. I have a picture of my deceased mother in my house but I don't worship her like a goddess. It just reminds me of her and the great love she showed me.

What I know of the Baptist Church is they would baptize you once you accept Jesus and profess your faith in him. I know that some Baptist Church have baptized people younger than you but each church is allowed to make their own rules on that. What did they talk about in those two classes you attended? It sounds like they wanted you to be there and they wanted to baptize you but you didn't want to be there. It does take money to build new "church buildings" and keep a church going, however, if you want to give money just to help the poor there are many organizations that do specifically that like an organization called "Food For The Poor". But they build buildings and pay people also!!

It sounds to me like you are content reading the bible and figuring scripture out on your own or with a little guidance/input from people on this web-site? Allot can be said for attending a church and interacting with other Christians. I encourage you to continue to seek that out. I could be wrong but maybe you haven't fully dealt with the loss of your friend and grandparents? I pray that you will seek out help/counseling if you need it.