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soul man

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30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. - 1 Corinthians 1:30-31.

This is what Christ in you is to the "believer wife." Have you seen believers go round and round trying to get these things worked out. They promise God they will accomplish these things if it's the last thing they do. It will be the last thing they do because trying to do them will kill you. Sometimes literally because the stress or whatever it is that works you so hard to do them causes you more trouble than you could possibly ever have in the world.

If you notice in a lot of our backsliders we call them. They will go back into the world because they had less trouble when they were in the world. At least those are the thoughts they have. Think of the Children of Israel when they were brought out of Egypt and hit some hard spots, they wanted to go back into captivity because they THOUGHT they had it better there than where they were going. Cast that down and everything else that will try to separate you from moving on in the Lord. It may hurt sometimes and it may hurt bad but you cannot stop, you keep going. There is a place prepared for you you know nothing about. Someone said to me one time "the Lord will not out more on you than you can handle." That is true, but what believers don't understand sometimes is 'you can handle a lot.

Thinking, we are thinkers, we think this about something and we think that about something, and we will do the same thing with scripture "we think." When you're thinking fails we want to pass blame off somewhere. You hear people, I have even heard them on christian forums say things about the word of God. They think-when all the time it is written right under their nose. If you want to think so bad think on these things "it is written" as the text says. If you do not understand scripture don't think just read if that so be the matter but don't start thinking about what life is, read what is written and learn. You can learn.

The scriptures can straighten anyone and anything out if they will stay with it. If you throw your hands up and say "I can't do it" you can't. We want everything now, I need money now the commercial says. I need I need, we don't need anything but Him, you just THINK you need. Cast that down and get fixed by what is written plain and pure.
 
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Addy

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If you throw your hands up and say "I can't do it" you can't.

OR.... you can approach things in the manner of absolutely UNDERSTANDING you can't... but HE can.
In all reality... we are dependant on God for everything... we just don't know it.

I think "backsliders" as you put it suffer with severe disappointments in what they THINK about God. They are not taught properly WHO GOD is... and WHO THEY BECOME in CHRIST. I also think that ... sometimes... these "backsliders" have been deeply wounded by other Christians.

If they choose to embark on a journey to SEEK HIS FACE.... God promises HE will be found.
 

soul man

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OR.... you can approach things in the manner of absolutely UNDERSTANDING you can't... but HE can.
In all reality... we are dependant on God for everything... we just don't know it.

I think "backsliders" as you put it suffer with severe disappointments in what they THINK about God. They are not taught properly WHO GOD is... and WHO THEY BECOME in CHRIST. I also think that ... sometimes... these "backsliders" have been deeply wounded by other Christians.

If they choose to embark on a journey to SEEK HIS FACE.... God promises HE will be found.

Yes and yes, that is a good way to put it. Things happen and people fall out for whatever reason but following on to know the Lord has to have it's place. And I think (couldn't resist) they may not have had good teachers or some may not have had any teacher's. I'm not a big fan of the a lot of teaching coming from behind a pulpit. There is a reason ministry is 5 fold at least. There should be a certain amount for sure but it should not be the main purpose because at the end of the day you are not getting what you get in a environment set aside specifically for teaching. I'm old school I know but I seem to see a difference and environment always makes a difference. Hanging out and talking after you have heard good teaching is invaluable. We all need to interact as well as interject, very important. Thanks for commenting.
 
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Addy

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Yes and yes, that is a good way to put it. Things happen and people fall out for whatever reason but following on to know the Lord has to have it's place. And I think (couldn't resist) they may not have had good teachers or some may not have had any teacher's. I'm not a big fan of the a lot of teaching coming from behind a pulpit. There is a reason ministry is 5 fold at least. There should be a certain amount for sure but it should not be the main purpose because at the end of the day you are not getting what you get in a environment set aside specifically for teaching. I'm old school I know but I seem to see a difference and environment always makes a difference. Hanging out and talking after you have heard good teaching is invaluable. We all need to interact as well as interject, very important. Thanks for commenting.
You are NOT alone... I am not a big fan of most of what is being taught from behind the pulpit either. I live in a small city... less than 60,000... and I cannot find a church worth attending here. But... I listen to Christian radio... so I get doses of Charles Stanley... mixed in with John MacArthur...
We used to also get sermons from Ravi Zacharias...but that is no more.... ( His scandal has broken my heart in ways I cannot even express ).
My favorite preacher is Carter Conlon... OH my ... his words and passion move me deeply.
I would venture to say that anything found on American/Canadian television called Christian teaching is nothing more than voodoo magic shows put on by the Word of Faith/Prosperity preachers. Anyways... not going there.
 
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Tone

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Colossians 1:26 to Colossians 2:12
 
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CharismaticLady

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30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. - 1 Corinthians 1:30-31.

I love this verse; thank you for posting it, because I haven't noticed it before, but it verifies what God has been teaching me about our walk, our relationship.

What I think happens with "backsliders" is that they haven't been born again in the first place, but have merely been introduced to Christian doctrine, even for some time. They gained a little knowledge, but just like being under the law, Romans 7:14-23, they still have the sin nature pulling at them. The only thing that has happened spiritually is that God is continuously drawing them, but they haven't fully surrendered yet, to become born again of the Spirit and free from the law of sin and death. That was me for the first 30 years of my life in church.

What was verified in your scripture of 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 is that the born again ARE already sanctified. Most church doctrine claims sanctification as being a life-long process to overcome sin. That is false, and actually a defeatist doctrine of demons who come to discourage us, and actually justify our sin. Like the backslider above, they sin because they do not have the power of the Spirit of God indwelling them, but only on the outside drawing them. What God showed me is that our life-long process is called glorification - becoming like Christ as we partake of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:2-7 It has nothing to do with sin, but the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit (verses 5-7) where all we have to deal with is immature fruit and trespasses caused by that growing stage. Going from glory to glory. I see this also verified in your most profound scripture.

THANK YOU!!!!
 
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Nancy

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You are NOT alone... I am not a big fan of most of what is being taught from behind the pulpit either. I live in a small city... less than 60,000... and I cannot find a church worth attending here. But... I listen to Christian radio... so I get doses of Charles Stanley... mixed in with John MacArthur...
We used to also get sermons from Ravi Zacharias...but that is no more.... ( His scandal has broken my heart in ways I cannot even express ).
My favorite preacher is Carter Conlon... OH my ... his words and passion move me deeply.
I would venture to say that anything found on American/Canadian television called Christian teaching is too. more than voodoo magic shows put on by the Word of Faith/Prosperity preachers. Anyways... not going there.

Oh gosh, that scandal also broke my heart to pieces about Ravi, I so loved that man but, his teachings and apologetics will still live on...as long as Christ is preached :)
I listen to allot of the radio shows too, Charles, John, and several more. Have you ever heard Chip Ingraham? He is my favorite. And you are so right about the televangelists!
 
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CharismaticLady

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Oh gosh, that scandal also broke my heart to pieces about Ravi, I so loved that man but, his teachings and apologetics will still live on...as long as Christ is preached :)
I listen to allot of the radio shows too, Charles, John, and several more. Have you ever heard Chip Ingraham? He is my favorite. And you are so right about the televangelists!
I didn't hear about Ravi. How long after the scandal broke did he die? Did he ever confess and repent?
 
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TLHKAJ

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OR.... you can approach things in the manner of absolutely UNDERSTANDING you can't... but HE can.
In all reality... we are dependant on God for everything... we just don't know it.

I think "backsliders" as you put it suffer with severe disappointments in what they THINK about God. They are not taught properly WHO GOD is... and WHO THEY BECOME in CHRIST. I also think that ... sometimes... these "backsliders" have been deeply wounded by other Christians.

If they choose to embark on a journey to SEEK HIS FACE.... God promises HE will be found.
Actually, scripture teaches "I can..."
But there are conditions... through Christ, and abiding in Christ.

John 15:4-5 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ⁴ Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. ⁵ I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.” — Philippians 4:13 (KJV)
 
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soul man

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You are NOT alone... I am not a big fan of most of what is being taught from behind the pulpit either. I live in a small city... less than 60,000... and I cannot find a church worth attending here. But... I listen to Christian radio... so I get doses of Charles Stanley... mixed in with John MacArthur...
We used to also get sermons from Ravi Zacharias...but that is no more.... ( His scandal has broken my heart in ways I cannot even express ).
My favorite preacher is Carter Conlon... OH my ... his words and passion move me deeply.
I would venture to say that anything found on American/Canadian television called Christian teaching is nothing more than voodoo magic shows put on by the Word of Faith/Prosperity preachers. Anyways... not going there.

Yes there are many good teacher/preacher/pastors. My point was teaching coming from a pulpit not what is being said, that is on them I have hard enough time keeping myself straightened out :-). My understanding the pulpit is for proclamation.
 

Addy

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Oh gosh, that scandal also broke my heart to pieces about Ravi, I so loved that man but, his teachings and apologetics will still live on...as long as Christ is preached :)
I listen to allot of the radio shows too, Charles, John, and several more. Have you ever heard Chip Ingraham? He is my favorite. And you are so right about the televangelists!

Sometimes the notification button does not seem to work... Nancy... my beautiful sister... who I haven't even connected with since my return.

The grief I felt when I discovered this scandal... broke my heart in a way that it has not been broken before... I was CRUSHED.
I think I mentioned this on another thread... but I chose to write to the lawyer who started his investigation on Ravi in 2015 regarding false credentials... He was kind enough to write back to me... I felt the need to apologize to him on behalf of Christians... and he graciously corresponded with me over a few days. He is an atheist... however he does not seem to have one ounce of hostility towards Christianity.

So in a way... God used an atheist to console a Christian... LOL Anyways... NO ... I have not heard of Chip Ingraham... I will have to look him up.

Anyways... once again... sorry for not responding to this... I am just seeing this now.
 
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Nancy

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Sometimes the notification button does not seem to work... Nancy... my beautiful sister... who I haven't even connected with since my return.

The grief I felt when I discovered this scandal... broke my heart in a way that it has not been broken before... I was CRUSHED.
I think I mentioned this on another thread... but I chose to write to the lawyer who started his investigation on Ravi in 2015 regarding false credentials... He was kind enough to write back to me... I felt the need to apologize to him on behalf of Christians... and he graciously corresponded with me over a few days. He is an atheist... however he does not seem to have one ounce of hostility towards Christianity.

So in a way... God used an atheist to console a Christian... LOL Anyways... NO ... I have not heard of Chip Ingraham... I will have to look him up.

Anyways... once again... sorry for not responding to this... I am just seeing this now.

Hi Addy, that's fine, I miss ALLOT of posts lol! And yes, I have noticed you on here. i sure hope all is well with you sister.
How very odd that an atheist would be there to comfort a Christian :D OH how God works!!!! And, I can hardly even think of Ravi right now...dark evil forces are behind everything, everything! :(
Anyhow, I am glad you came back :)
xo
 

soul man

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What was verified in your scripture of 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 is that the born again ARE already sanctified. Most church doctrine claims sanctification as being a life-long process to overcome sin.

And thank you. You know I saw something some years ago in dividing soul and spirit. I saw that by dividing scripture it gives the believer information on the spirit and information on the soul and knowing that the verses of scripture that are speaking to one or the other such as; 1 John 1:8 says the believer can commit sin, and 1 John 3:9 says the believer cannot commit sin. Well what a dilemma that can cause simply by not dividing up the scriptures, and you know the arguments that leads to on both sides of not dividing.Two are separate but closely related. Dividing gives the answers to questions we have a hard time putting our finger on or just the good old fashion 'not knowing. So the life long process we can see now is; soulish. The moment of birth, born again is; spirit. So one is complete in Christ (spirit) and the other (soul) is being completed or that is where sanctification of soul takes place, our walk, not in spirit but soul, spirit is complete (the cross-in Christ). But it is bringing the two together to rightly process life. Take mind renewal for instance it is the mind coming into or catching up with the facts and gives us compatibility with Christ in us. Thank you sister.
 
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soul man

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Life can really sting sometime and when one of our hero's and minister's has trouble we all feel it because they are so well known. You feel for them to because you know it is a living hell to go through that and be judged by the whole world. Sin is always present Paul said.

On another note it's nice to see everyone :+) on this glorious day in the Lord.
 

CharismaticLady

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And thank you. You know I saw something some years ago in dividing soul and spirit. I saw that by dividing scripture it gives the believer information on the spirit and information on the soul and knowing that the verses of scripture that are speaking to one or the other such as; 1 John 1:8 says the believer can commit sin, and 1 John 3:9 says the believer cannot commit sin. Well what a dilemma that can cause simply by not dividing up the scriptures, and you know the arguments that leads to on both sides of not dividing.Two are separate but closely related. Dividing gives the answers to questions we have a hard time putting our finger on or just the good old fashion 'not knowing. So the life long process we can see now is; soulish. The moment of birth, born again is; spirit. So one is complete in Christ (spirit) and the other (soul) is being completed or that is where sanctification of soul takes place, our walk, not in spirit but soul, spirit is complete (the cross-in Christ). But it is bringing the two together to rightly process life. Take mind renewal for instance it is the mind coming into or catching up with the facts and gives us compatibility with Christ in us. Thank you sister.

I don't know if you have ever learned about the writing styles of the apostles. They were Hebrews, thus wrote in an Eastern mindset. Most on those on the forums have a Western mindset, taking scriptures at face value but I've noticed usually miss what the apostle is meaning from what he says. The Greeks wrote in more of the Western style that we are used to, putting all the negatives in one paragraph, and all the positives in a different paragraph, making it easy for us to tell them apart.

The style of 1 John 1:5-10 is called contrasts. Chapter three is also a list of contrasts, but are more plainly determined to be either of Jesus, or of the devil. But in chapter one it is not so easy to determine because of the apostles use of personal present pronouns of "we" or "I" for all, rather than determining the they vs. us for the Western mindset. For instance, Paul uses "I" in Romans 7:14-23, but they are those under the law who still have the sin nature, thus have never been born again unto Jesus. Romans 8:2 shows that Paul is concluding that the "law of the Spirit" (born again) has FREED ME from Romans 7:14-23.

What this means is chapter one is a contrast of LIGHT vs. DARKNESS, the same as chapter three, of JESUS vs. the DEVIL. IOW the "we" doesn't mean they are all Christians. Those in darkness who judge themselves as righteous are not Christians. Only the blood of Jesus can take away our sin. You have to look at the context, and also the teaching of the whole book, especially chapter three which leaves no room for doubt.

Verses:

5 - God is LIGHT
6 - Walk in DARKNESS
7 - Walk in LIGHT
8 - Sinner without Spirit of Truth from Jesus (Holy Spirit) (DARKNESS)
9 - Jesus takes away our sin. (LIGHT)
10 - Already sinless so don't need cleansing from Jesus (DARKNESS)

This is why 6, 8, and 10 are not connected as a Greek writer would condense them. And why 10, those similar to 8 is after verse 9 (peculiar don't you think).

This chapter is about sins unto death, not sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17 If you notice in the LIGHT verse 7, he is walking in the LIGHT, yet his sins are continually being cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That doesn't mean you can walk in the Spirit and still are able to murder and it is automatically cleansed. No, sins not unto death are trespasses. It is clearer in the Old Testament, our schoolmaster.

Sins NOT unto death
Leviticus 5:15 trespasses
“If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

Numbers 15:22-29 (sacrifice for unintentional sins)

Sins Unto death (willful sins of lawlessness)(committed against the laws of God)
Numbers 15:30-36 (no sacrifice for lawlessness - they were stoned to death.)

Be careful about 1 John 2:1 also. John shows it is possible to not sin, so another reason why 1 John 1:8 is not true for a child of God, only for a pre-Christ sinner. Jesus is our Advocate for trespasses, sins not unto death, but are still sins, though minor. Catholics call them venial sins, as opposed to sins unto death they call mortal sins. The Lord's Prayer also shows the only sins a Christian commits are trespasses. And there is also a condition to having these cleansed. We MUST forgive each other trespasses against us. Matthew 6:14-15. They are usually sins we don't even know are sins. Even Jesus asked the Father to forgive the Romans who were crucifying Him, saying "Father forgive them for they KNOW NOT what they are doing."

So you see, it is important to see sin as God sees sin, and not just say "sin is sin." There are two categories with different rules. Even if someone were to ask us to forgive them for killing our child, we must forgive them, because if a murderer repents God will forgive them. But God will not ask us to forgive those He will not forgive Himself, like those without repentance of their willful lawlessness against morality.

As far as the minor trespasses. It really isn't enough to just forgive those who trespass against us. If we know that someone has something against us, we must try to reconcile. If they won't forgive you, that is up to them. But God will not forgive them if they don't forgive you. So, the word says in principle, we must try again. Even bring someone with you.

James 5:
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
 
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soul man

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I don't know if you have ever learned about the writing styles of the apostles. They were Hebrews, thus wrote in an Eastern mindset. Most on those on the forums have a Western mindset, taking scriptures at face value but I've noticed usually miss what the apostle are meaning from what he says. The Greeks wrote in more of the Western style that we are used to, putting all the negatives in one paragraph, and all the positives in a different paragraph, making it easy for us to tell them apart.

The style of 1 John 1:5-10 is called contrasts. Chapter three is also a list of contrasts, but are more plainly determined to be either of Jesus, or of the devil. But in chapter one it is not so easy to determine because of the apostles use of personal present pronouns of "we" or "I" for all, rather than determining the they vs. us for the Western mindset. For instance, Paul uses "I" in Romans 7:14-23, but they are those under the law who still have the sin nature, thus have never been born again unto Jesus. Romans 8:2 shows that Paul is concluding that the "law of the Spirit" (born again) has FREED ME from Romans 7:14-23.

What this means is chapter one is a contrast of LIGHT vs. DARKNESS, the same as chapter three, of JESUS vs. the DEVIL. IOW the "we" doesn't mean they are all Christians. Those in darkness who judge themselves as righteous are not Christians. Only the blood of Jesus can take away our sin. You have to look at the context, and also the teaching of the whole book, especially chapter three which leaves no room for doubt.

Verses:

5 - God is LIGHT
6 - Walk in DARKNESS
7 - Walk in LIGHT
8 - Sinner without Spirit of Truth from Jesus (Holy Spirit) (DARKNESS)
9 - Jesus takes away our sin. (LIGHT)
10 - Already sinless so don't need cleansing from Jesus (DARKNESS)

This is why 6, 8, and 10 are not connected as a Greek writer would condense them. And why 10, those similar to 8 is after verse 9 (peculiar don't you think).

This chapter is about sins unto death, not sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17 If you notice in the LIGHT verse 7, he is walking in the LIGHT, yet his sins are continually being cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That doesn't mean you can walk in the Spirit and still are able to murder and it is automatically cleansed. No, sins not unto death are trespasses. It is clearer in the Old Testament, our schoolmaster.

Sins NOT unto death
Leviticus 5:15 trespasses
“If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

Numbers 15:22-29 (sacrifice for unintentional sins)

Sins Unto death (willful sins of lawlessness)(committed against the laws of God)
Numbers 15:30-36 (no sacrifice for lawlessness - they were stoned to death.)

Be careful about 1 John 2:1 also. John shows it is possible to not sin, so another reason why 1 John 1:8 is not true for a child of God, only for a pre-Christ sinner. Jesus is our Advocate for trespasses, sins not unto death, but are still sins, though minor. Catholics call them venial sins, as opposed to sins unto death they call mortal sins. The Lord's Prayer also shows the only sins a Christian commits are trespasses. And there is also a condition to having these cleansed. We MUST forgive each other trespasses against us. Matthew 6:14-15. They are usually sins we don't even know are sins. Even Jesus asked the Father to forgive the Romans who were crucifying Him, saying "Father forgive them for they KNOW NOT what they are doing."

So you see, it is important to see sin as God sees sin, and not just say "sin is sin." There are two categories with different rules. Even if someone were to ask us to forgive them for killing our child, we must forgive them, because if a murderer repents God will forgive them. But God will not ask us to forgive those He will not forgive Himself, like those without repentance of their willful lawlessness against morality.

As far as the minor trespasses. It really isn't enough to just forgive those who trespass against us. If we know that someone has something against us, we must try to reconcile. If they won't forgive you, that is up to them. But God will not forgive them if they don't forgive you. So, the word says in principle, we must try again. Even bring someone with you.

James 5:
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Yes that is really good information. I'm going to go over that more so if I start preaching and mess up y'all (more than one) don't get mad at me lol.
 

CharismaticLady

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Yes that is really good information. I'm going to go over that more so if I start preaching and mess up y'all (more than one) don't get mad at me lol.
Copy me on what you preach so I can make sure it is what the apostles mean, okay? I've studied this a long time. I like to teach worthy seekers of truth.

Here is a couple examples of another Semitic writing style called a parallelism. One identifies and clarifies the second with key words tying them together for the parallel.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus.
And great grace was upon them all.

2 Peter 1:2-4 verifies that grace is the divine power of God given to us to kill the desire to sin. It is not what the worldly church has taught, that grace is a covering up of the sins we commit. Jesus takes away our desire to sin, not just cover up like the blood of bulls and goats.

1 Corinthians 1 (the beginning of this also verifies a parallelism that grace is power, but uses the word "enriched" and by Christ and by Him are the connecting keys. And then follows another parallelism that I want you to see so you can start recognizing them for yourself.

4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This verifies that the Book of Revelation is about the Day of the Lord - events to the second coming revealed to us.
 
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soul man

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The style of 1 John 1:5-10 is called contrasts. Chapter three is also a list of contrasts, but are more plainly determined to be either of Jesus, or of the devil. But in chapter one it is not so easy to determine because of the apostles use of personal present pronouns of "we" or "I" for all, rather than determining the they vs. us for the Western mindset. For instance, Paul uses "I" in Romans 7:14-23, but they are those under the law who still have the sin nature, thus have never been born again unto Jesus. Romans 8:2 shows that Paul is concluding that the "law of the Spirit" (born again) has FREED ME from Romans 7:14-23.

Have you considered Paul speaking retrospective from the 'in Christ position now. Only a man in Christ could speak to the sin nature because no one knew anything about a sin nature until Paul receiving his revelation gives the understanding in scripture such as verses quoted. They all knew they sinned because they were always in hot water for not keeping the law. But knowing you sin, and having the knowledge of why you sin (Paul gives the understanding) and what caused you the trouble is two different things


Paul said he was alive once without the law. Paul was never alive without the law. Do have something on that?

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. - Romans 7:9-11.