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Rev 6:12-13 fulfilled??

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by atrhick, Jun 16, 2008.

  1. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
    For some reason. I see Isaiah 66:8 in context as being related to the new heavens and the new earth. Not before.
     
  2. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    Just because Revelations is not written in chronological order don’t mean it’s not historical in some parts...
    Agreed. Revelation is not in chronological order. Further, some was historical even at the time of writing. Some has become historical since.Edit for clarification: Yes, much remains still yet future.
     
  3. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    Couple quick things here. Revelation is "out of order" in one sense but certainly not in another. The presence of sequential numbering of 7 vials, 7 seals, and 7 trumps would leave one very hard-pressed to turn these into something out of order.
    Agreed. I do not think that 'atrhick' was intending that, for that would indeed be ludicrous.(Denver)
    The Lisbon earthquake hardly fulfills Joel 2.
    Agreed. Further data has been introduced as well as slightly commented upon.
     
  4. atrhick

    atrhick New Member

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    I don’t think the 7 trumps or 7 bowls ect. are out of order, however I don’t think that Joel 2.is fulfilled either... (Its obvious Jesus has not returned. but I do think it is partly fulfilled. Joel 2. That is.
     
  5. atrhick

    atrhick New Member

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    Merely OrnamentalThroughout the Bible, fig leaves are a symbol for man-made religion and false righteousness. The fig tree is a symbol of God’s people.Please read the following passage carefully: “He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down” (Luke 13:6–9).Year after year, the owner of the vineyard was disappointed because all he found on his fig tree was leaves. It bore no fruit. It looked like a healthy tree, but he did not plant it for mere ornamental beauty. He wanted fruit.I believe there also may be a time prophecy hidden in this parable. The vineyard mentioned in verse 6 is the land of Israel (Isaiah 5:1–7; Jeremiah 12:10; Psalm 80:8–16), in which the vine and fig tree — both symbols of Israel and Judah — were planted. The parable of the fig tree gives a total of four years from the time of planting to the final chance for the tree to bear fruit. Now a year in the Bible is 360 days, because the Jews operated on a lunar calendar. Four years would be a total of 1,440 days. A day in prophecy equals a year (Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6).According to many chronologists, Joshua crossed over the Jordan and took possession of the Promised Land at approximately 1407 BC. If you extend 1,440 years from that point in time (keeping in mind that there is no zero year), you come to the year AD 34. This important date in history is the same ending point for the 490-year prophecy given in Daniel 9:24. The angel says, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,” and in fact the word “determined” is better translated as “cut off.” The parable of the fig tree said, “Then after that thou shalt cut it down” (Luke 13:9, emphasis added). It was in AD 34 that the Jews forfeited their place as God’s covenant people. Then in AD 70, both Jerusalem and the temple were completely destroyed.Missing FruitOne week before His death, Jesus cursed a fruitless fig tree to illustrate what was going to happen to the Jewish nation and the apostate church.“Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!” (Matthew 21:18-20).Why did Jesus curse a fig tree? Surely the Lord was not so petty as to retaliate against a tree because it didn’t give Him breakfast! We need to examine this story closely, because it is the only place in the Gospels where Jesus is credited with being directly responsible for killing something.Fig trees are unique in that both mature leaves and ripe fruit appear at the same time. The tree Jesus cursed had all the outward signs of bearing fruit, yet the tree was a hypocrite. It was a fitting symbol of the Jewish nation. With its temple, priesthood, and sacrifices, Israel had all the trappings of true religion, but the genuine fruits — justice, mercy, and faith (Matthew 23:23) — were missing. Remember that withered fig leaves are a reminder of man’s failed attempts to cover his own sins.Notice the sequence: The same day Jesus cursed the fruitless fig tree (Matthew 21), He later had a showdown with the phony Pharisees and exposed their hypocrisy. “But all their works they do for to be seen of men” (Matthew 23:5). Seven times Jesus called them hypocrites, and then He pronounced a curse on them — just as He had the fig tree earlier that day. Here is the curse: “Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation” (Matthew 23:34–36). Please don’t miss the fact that Jesus said the curse would “come upon this generation.”In the next chapter, when Jesus describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world, He gives fig leaves as a sign. “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:32–34).A generation in the Bible is 40 years (Numbers 32:13). Jesus made this prophecy in AD 31, and by AD 70 it was fulfilled!Christ’s illustration of the fig tree that put forth leaves but no fruit is also a very plain prophetic sign for the last days. In the same way that literal Israel had all the outward forms of true religion before the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, so spiritual Israel (the church) in the last days will put forth leaves but no fruit. There might be all the outward appearances of revival — lots of praise, miracle-healing services, big attendance, and talk of love and acceptance, but no fruit of the Holy Spirit. In other words, “having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof” (2 Timothy 3:5).One of my favorite Christian authors made a clear prediction more than 100 years ago: “Before the final visitation of God’s judgments upon the earth there will be among the people of the Lord such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. The Spirit and power of God will be poured out upon His children. At that time many will separate themselves from those churches in which the love of this world has supplanted love for God and His word. Many, both of ministers and people, will gladly accept those great truths which God has caused to be proclaimed at this time to prepare a people for the Lord’s second coming. The enemy of souls desires to hinder this work; and before the time for such a movement shall come, he will endeavor to prevent it by introducing a counterfeit. In those churches which he can bring under his deceptive power he will make it appear that God’s special blessing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious interest. Multitudes will exult that God is working marvelously for them, when the work is that of another spirit. Under a religious guise, Satan will seek to extend his influence over the Christian world.”3This fig-leaf righteousness and false revival are the characteristics of the last-day Laodicean church. “Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing [recognize the fig leaves?]; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent” (Revelation 3:17–19).Jesus is calling us to lay aside our filthy, self-righteous fig leaves and — like the prodigal son — come home and put on the royal robe of the Father. Only then will the fruits of the Spirit, which are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance (Galatians 5:22, 23), be evident in our lives. There will be no people in God’s kingdom who are merely ornamental trees. Everyone must have fruit.“Let love be without hypocrisy” (Romans 12:9 NKJV). Hypocrisy hurts the church, and it hurts us. Many hypocrites have been acting for so long that they have come to believe their own performances. We have a tendency to mold our faces to fit our masks. But God wants us to be honest with others and ourselves — spiritual Israelites in whom there is no guile or deceit (1 Peter 2:1; Revelation 14:5).Here is the challenge I want to present to you: “The greatest want of the world is the want of men — men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.”4Jesus says, “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God” (Matthew 5:8).
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I don’t think the 7 trumps or 7 bowls ect. are out of order, however I don’t think that Joel 2.is fulfilled either... (Its obvious Jesus has not returned. but I do think it is partly fulfilled. Joel 2. That is.
    I think that was the point Joel 2 has not been fulfilledhow can part be fulfilled?? What part of Christs second coming could be fulfilled?
     
  7. bullfighter

    bullfighter New Member

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    Please stay on topic in each respective thread. If you have a grievance with the forum, please make it in the appropriate forum, not someone else's thread about a different subject. Thanks.
     
  8. atrhick

    atrhick New Member

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    I think that was the point Joel 2 has not been fulfilledhow can part be fulfilled?? What part of Christs second coming could be fulfilled?
    Well what about the prophecy in Daniel see belowDan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. If we where in that time and I said look there is the Messiah would you still say to me "that’s not correct because he needs to be cut off and he is still alive" In prophecy everything has a sequence of events and that is so for all prophecy!again i am not saying Christ secon coming is fulfilled. I am saying some events leading up to his second advent MAYBE filfilled.
     
  9. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    I would distinguish a type from dual prophecy for a number of reasons. For example, we have Nebuchadnezzar the type in the OT. Then we have another Nebuchadnezzar spoken about which is attributed feats far beyond what the Babylonian king ever accomplished. These, of course, remain unfulfilled. The pattern continues, as we have, for example, the King of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28, but the refers to him being present in the Garden of Eden...obviously impossible for an earthly king born thousands of years later.My point is that calling a prophecy a dual one has to be something dictated specifically by the Bible, and I see no other evidence here from the Bible other than the original prophecy itself. Numerous plagues, pestilences, and diseases have assaulted humanity for the two thousand years since the death of our Lord on the cross. These are types.I guess where I take issue is best demonstrated by an actual example. Let's say for a moment that we assume, as you have put forth, that this Lisbon quake was generally accepted as the fulfillment of the 6th trump. Now, let's say, as this site believes that the false Christ shows up before the real one.To set the timeline based on Matthew 24, the abomination has been setup at this point (Matthew 24:15) and those in Judea are instructed to flee. Then comes a very strong warning about not following the false Christs we see popup on almost a daily basis now. The last verse prepares us for his coming (Matthew 24:27).What am I leading up to here?Matthew 24:29-30
    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    This, you would argue, was first fulfilled in the Lisbon quake, but you do maintain a dual prophecy. Well, what about the folks that listen to that but then see the fake show up pretending to be Christ in all his false glory?My point is that a type is not necessarily a fulfillment of prophecy. We find common ground in that we can regard this a type, but to make it dual prophecy is a falsehood when nothing there supports it, frankly speaking. Again, I go back to this is not an event folks are going to have to hearsay to know it happened. We've had some catastrophic events on this old Earth, but the Lisbon quake is just one in many. There are accounts from Volcano explosions just as rough.I'm not trying to put you down beloved, because you're reading and looking for the signs, that's all very good indeed!! God bless ya for it! But, we do have to be very careful. A type is one thing, dual prophecy is another.
     
  10. atrhick

    atrhick New Member

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    AAA I understand now [​IMG]... whats happenign here is we have a diffrent view of who/what the antichrist is. i will post what i believe to be the antichrist.The First Abomination The key that unlocks the mystery of this prophetic event is found in the first two verses of Daniel. "In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and beseiged it. And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god" (Daniel 1:1,2). In these two short sentences Daniel provides a concise historical background to the remainder of the book which follows. Further study of Daniel's prologue reveals the abomination of desolation was existent in his time and led to Jerusalem's captivity. The Chronicler reveals the reason the Jewish kings fell to Babylon. "Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign... and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord his God." It was because of Jehoiakim's iniquitous life that God allowed him to be taken captive. The significant feature of this is that Jehoiakim's evil deeds are described this way: "Now the rest of the acts of Jehoiakim, and his abominations which he did, and that which was found in him, behold, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead" (2 Chronicles 36:5-8). It was specifically the abominations of Jehoiakim that led him and his city to forfeit God's protection and thus fall to Nebuchadnezzar. Unfortunately Jehoiachin, his son, didn't do much better. Scripture tells us he also did "that which was evil in the sight of the Lord." Consequently he too was taken captive to Babylon, and "Zedekiah his brother" was placed as king over Judah and Jerusalem (v. 9-11). The Bible goes on to record that not only did Zedekiah turn out to be just as evil as his two predecessors, but "moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen" (v. 12-14). God's political and religious leaders, as well as the people, adopted heathen ways as their own. They did this at the expense of God's revealed truth. Notice where these abominations were committed: the people "transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem" (v. 14). These abominations were standing in God's consecrated holy place, the "house of the Lord." The religious leaders of the day had purposefully led the people to adopt heathen worship practices and incorporated them into their worship of God. In substituting for God's commandments the vain notions of men, the leaders of God's heritage provoked his wrath. The people rejected God's calls to repentance and reformation and were left to reap the consequences. "Therefore, he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary" (v. 17). This judgment was felt not only in the spilling of the blood, but in the complete destruction of the city and sanctuary (v. 19). This all was done "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath to fulfill threescore and ten years" (v. 21). The result of God's people practicing the religious abominations of the heathen was the desolation of their land, city and sanctuary.Breaking The Sabbath Brought Desolation Just what were these abominations that resulted in such desolation Since this was all done "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah," then Jeremiah should be able to tell us what substitutions in worship had been made. In Jeremiah 17 the prophet is told to stand in the gate of the people and prophesy. Under a divine mandate, Jeremiah told the people that if they would honor God's seventh-day Sabbath their city would remain forever, and that this faithful obedience would lead them into such a relationship with Himself that they would be used to convert the surrounding heathen nations (ch. 17:19-26). On the other hand, if they would not keep the Sabbath day holy God would allow their city to be desolated. "But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then I will kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched" (v. 27). Sadly, the Jews chose to continue breaking God's Sabbath and thus inaugurated their own destruction and captivity. The abomination that led to their desolation was breaking the Sabbath. Thus, we see the significance of 2 Chronicles 36:21: "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her Sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept Sabbath." Ezekiel, who lived during the same time, also tells us about the abominations God's people were practicing in the holy place. In Ezekiel 8, the prophet was brought by vision to the door of the inner gate. God proceeded to show his servant the progressively greater outrages His people were committing. In verses 5 and 6 He speaks of an image that provoked Him to jealousy. In an escalation of outrage, unclean beasts had been brought into the house of God, women were weeping for Tammuz and the greatest abomination of all was twenty-five men standing in God's holy place "with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east" (Ezekiel 8:16). God had instructed the Jews to erect the temple in a manner that would discourage the imitation of their heathen neighbors in sun worship. The ark of the covenant, the very focal point of the Jews' worship, was placed at the western end of the tabernacle. Thus the children of Israel would face the west, their backs to the rising sun, when they worshipped the true God. Yet the entrance of paganism among God's people had grown to such proportions that Judah's leading men were actually turning their backs on the temple of God. This was a significant act of apostasy. Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah list the heathen practices that had been incorporated into the worship of God. Whether it was breaking the second commandment by idol worship, adoring unclean beasts, worshipping Tammuz, the mythological god of the pagans, or breaking God's holy Sabbath and worshiping the sun on the day consecrated to it, these practices all were classed by God as abominations. It was because the Jews persisted in justifying their own course and continued in these heathen customs that God permitted the desolation of their city. Daniel himself agrees that it was the sins committed by God's people that caused their desolation. "O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and the iniquities of our fathers.... cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate.... open thy eyes, and behold our desolations..." (Daniel 9:16-18). It is important to note that the abominations were done by the apostate people of God. This in turn resulted in their forfeiture of God's protection and called down His judgments and chastisement in their desolation. This scenario of the abomination of desolation in Daniel's day, involving the first Jewish temple period, prefigures the two other abominations of desolation prophesied in Daniel. The next one we shall consider is the one that concerns the second Jewish temple period. The Second Temple Desolated After their release from Babylonian captivity and rebuilding the city and temple, the Jewish leaders erected a mountain of rules and regulations designed to protect them from repeating the sins that had led to their bondage. The fourth commandment's seventh-day Sabbath became a special object of amendment. The Jews reasoned that since it was transgression of the Sabbath that led to their captivity, they needed to define in minute detail how the Sabbath should be kept. Over 500 rules concerning Sabbathkeeping eventually resulted. Some of these Sabbath laws were as ridiculous as this: one could not leave an egg in the sun on the Sabbath because the sun might cook it, and cooking on the Sabbath was a violation of the fourth commandment. Of course, this only resulted in a system of pure legalism. At last the people began to believe that favor with God depended on how well they obeyed the traditions of their elders. Ultimately the people were led full circle to disobedience again. Jesus comments that in spite of their apparent religiosity they were still breaking God's law even as their forefathers had during Isaiah's and Daniel's day. "Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men... full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered" (Mark 7:6-13). Once again the people found themselves immersed in vain and rebellious worship. Even though their apostasy expressed itself in legalism instead of laxness, it was still based on the same principle upon which all pagan religions are based - that man can save himself by his own works. Jesus, like Jeremiah of old, rebuked this religious system and called it an abomination. "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15). Jesus expressed His displeasure for their abominations on numerous occasions. Most notable were the two times He cleansed the temple. On these times He expressed His anger at the desecration of His holy place. The controversy between Jesus and the Jews steamed, boiled and spewed over religion. The religious leaders hated Him because He didn't look like the Messiah, He didn't respect their traditions and most notably He didn't keep the Sabbath in the manner they thought it should be kept. This latter issue infuriated the Jews and led them to seek Jesus' death (See John 5:10-16; Matthew 12:1-4; Mark 3:1-6). In spite of the religious leaders' resistance, Jesus sought time and again to bring them to repentance and reformation. Often He reproved them for their erroneous ways and pointed the way to true and undefiled religion that is of great price in the sight of God. Yet they hardened their hearts and beat back the waves of God's mercy. As Jesus entered Jerusalem for the last time, His prophetic eye saw the consequences of their constant rebellion. With a grief-stricken heart and tears coursing down His cheeks, He prophesied the coming doom of the city: "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side and shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation" (Luke 19:41-44). After teaching in the temple for several days, Jesus left its precincts for the last time. Again He was choked with anguish as He saw the ultimate result of His people's apostasy. He exclaimed, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings and ye would not! Behold your house is left unto you desolate" (Matthew 23:37,38). On both these occasions Jesus placed the guilt upon the people by stating, "they knew not the time of their visitation" and "ye would not." As a result of not responding to God's call to turn from their abominations, their temple was to be desolated. This prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Roman armies of Titus burned the temple to the ground. This second desolation of the temple perfectly paralleled its first destruction. On both occasions the abominations were done by the apostate people of God and the desolation was an act of judgment performed by a heathen army. This desolation of Jerusalem was prophesied by Daniel to come as a result of the people rejecting Messiah the prince. A careful study of Daniel 9:25-27 will show this to be the case. In verse 25 Messiah is promised to Israel and the city's restoration is also predicted. But then, ominously, all is prophesied for doom again. Verse 26 speaks of Messiah being killed by His own people and of how this act would cause their city and sanctuary to be desolated once again. As Daniel heard Gabriel relay this prophecy, it was to his mind a replay of what he had seen happen to the Jerusalem of his day. The prophecy indicated that history would repeat itself, and this is exactly what happened. The abominations that God's people committed resulted, in both 586 B.C. and 70 A.D., in the destruction of their sanctuary and city -- first by Nebuchadnezzar, then by Titus. Because Israel rejected the Messiah they lost their place as God's favored people. Jesus predicted this would take place by saying, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" (Matthew 21:43). Israel forfeited their franchise of the gospel by their own obstinate sin. Who would be the new nation to receive the kingdom of God and bring forth the fruits thereof The Bible provides a clear and concise answer in the apostle Peter's letter to the Gentile converts who "In time past were not a people, but are now the people of God." Of the converts to Christianity, the new people of God, he further says, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9,10). In the new dispensation God bestows upon the converted Christians all the privileges and promises that had been made to the literal seed of Abraham (see Galatians 3:26-29). Now converted Christians assume the role of Israel, and the Christian church absorbs the status of the temple or sanctuary of God. The Scriptures make this abundantly clear in such texts as Romans 2;28,29; Ephesians 2:11-13; 19-22; and 1 Peter 2:5. The Final Desolation It is in the light of this New Testament principle of spiritual Israel that Daniel speaks of the abomination of desolation the third and final time. These references can be found in Daniel 8:13; 11:31; and 12:11. Discerning students of prophetic history realize that these verses predict the formation and ascension of power by the Papacy. It is an indisputable fact of history that the Papacy brought into the Christian church the very same practices of paganism for which ancient Jerusalem was destroyed. One has to do only a little study to see how image worship, Tammuz worship, and sun worship were introduced to Christianity during the Dark Ages. Many of these abominations are still with us in the form of statues, candles for the saints, rosary beads, Easter sunrise services and Sunday worship. [For more information on this subject, see Amazing Facts' booklet Baptized Paganism.] By no means does the papal apostasy exonerate Protestantism. Most Protestant churches accede to the apostasy by continuing the practice of abominations that have their roots firmly fixed in ancient pagan religions, which were established to destroy God's truth. Both Catholicism and Protestantism have fostered abominations in God's holy place, His church. The Christian church is mirroring literal Israel. We are repeating many of the same sins and will consequently reap the same punishment of desolation, unless we are willing to read the handwriting on the wall and flee from Babylon. It is clear that the three occasions of abomination of desolation found in Daniel result from apostasy on the part of God's people, but what is the sign that will tell us when the desolation is nigh In Luke 21:20 Jesus told His disciples what would be the last sign of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem. He said, "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." This text does not indicate that the armies are the abomination, but rather that the armies were the instrument to cause desolation. Through the Roman armies God would execute "the days of vengeance" for Israel's abominations. When the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem, it was a sign that most of the city's leaders and inhabitants had passed the boundaries of grace and had filled their cup of iniquity. To the Christians living in the city, this was to be a sign that Jerusalem would soon suffer God's judgment. As soon as the first opportunity arose, these Christians were to "flee to the mountains" (v. 21). In 66 A.D. when Cestius, the Roman general, surrounded the city the Christians knew the promised sign had arrived and the time had come to flee. At their first opportunity to escape they did so, and not one Christian died in the horrible destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Just as God gave the early Christians a sign of when to flee Jerusalem, so He has given us a sign. He has made it possible for every Christian to know when this world's probationary hour is nearing its close. In Revelation 13 and 14 John records a list of omens that will tell us just how close we are to the end. The sign that will show this nation has filled its cup of iniquity will be when it makes an image to the Papacy by uniting church and state. How much more neatly could this be effected than by the passage of a national Sunday law commanding everyone to honor a pagan day of worship Such an event will be a direct fulfillment of Revelation 13:15-17, and provide assurance that the end of this earth's time is quickly approaching. One author describes coming events this way: "As the approach of Roman armies was a sign to the disciples of the impending destruction of Jerusalem, so may this apostasy be a sign to us that the limit of God's forbearance is reached, that the measure of our nation's iniquity is full, and that the angel of mercy is about to take her flight." When the churches have apostasized in their abominations to such a degree that they enact legislation of a religious law which displaces God's holy Sabbath with a pagan holiday, we may leave our cities, knowing that a time of trouble will be forthcoming. The abomination of desolation is an important subject in these last days. If we study this prophecy carefully, we will find that in each of its three fulfill-ments refers to a national apostasy by God's people that ends in their tragic destruction. We are now living in the time of the Chistian church's final apostasy, which makes of none effect the commandments of God. We need to see that we are in the midst of fulfilling prophecy and keep our eyes open for the culmination of all things. Our only sure protection against the abomination of desolation is to give our lives unreservedly to Jesus, loving others as He loves them and worshiping Him in the way that His word teaches. The greatest commandment is simply to love God with all our heart and soul and strength. If we have such love, it will be natural for us to do all things to please and honor Him. In return, He will see us safely through the desolation that will close this earth's history just before He comes again.
     
  11. jtartar

    jtartar New Member

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    (atrhick;52767)
    Greetings my brothers and sisters in the name of our Great Lord and savior Jesus Christ.Not many Christians today know or have even heard of the “Great Lisbon Earthquake” which happened on November 1, 1755 or the Dark Day in History which occured on May 19th 1780 let alone the implication it has in regards to bible prophecy. Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. The Great Lisbon Earthquake.On November 1, 1755 at around 9:40 a massive earthquake rocked the city of Lisbon, the following tsunami and fire caused near-total destruction leaving in its wake an estimated death toll of 60,000 to 100,000 people dead. Geologists estimate today that the Lisbon earthquake would have rated 9 on the Richter scale with the epicenter in the Atlantic Ocean about 200km west southwest of the Cape St. Vincent.So the question is why would I try to attach this event to the above prophecy? Why not some other earthquake; After all there have been other earthquakes that have kill more people an cause more destruction. Well according to that same prophecy cretin events happen in succession of each other. The Dark Day.Most of you I am sure have heard it said on many occasions that” Jesus is coming soon” maybe from Your parents, Pastor, perhaps even an Elder, Deacon maybe even a close friend or Stranger, but how soon, is soon! On May 19th 1780; known as” The Dark Day”.History records a great darkness, that rendered the day hideously dark beyond anything anyone have ever experience in recorded history. Millions of people saw it. From evening time until after midnight, not even one ray of light could pass thugh the thick darkness.Soon after the event it was dubbed “the blackness of darkness!” one eye-witness Said "I Could not help conceiving, at the time, that if every luminous body in the universe Had been shrouded in impenetrable darkness, or struck out of existence, the darkness could not have been more complete." All of this took place on May 19th 1780, 25 years after what we know now as the “Great Lisbon Earthquake”. If I where to be finished at this point you could look at me and say “well what Happen to the Moon turning into blood? And all the other stuff” and you would be right to do so. The next thing that Rev 6:12 said would happen isRev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal… and the moon became as blood; Now after midnight the moon could be seen as it was fully dark still but as one eye-witness said, "it had not the least effect to dispel the death-like shadows.” However the darkness disappeared after some time, and then the moon, when first visible, had the appearance of blood. The next event to take place was a meteor shower which took place on November 13, 1833 and known as “The Great Leonid Meteor Storm of 1833” which covered the sky in a wonderful array lights.Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Since the last of these events in this prophecy it has been 175 years. The last and final events of this prophecy is as followsRev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Let us all hope we will be ready for this day when out Great Lord and savior comes to take us home.Amen
    atrhick, The things mentioned at Rev 6:12-17, have NOT occurred yet. At Rev 1:1 we are told that we would be showed in SIGNS, so these are not literal. The things mentioned here have to do with man's institutions, religious, political,and financial. The things mentioned are to occurr in the Great Tribulation, first the destruction of Babylon the Great, Rev 18, and then what is called the Great Day of God, in many places, Armageddon, Rev 16:16, 19:11-21
     
  12. atrhick

    atrhick New Member

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    (jtartar;53499)
    atrhick, The things mentioned at Rev 6:12-17, have NOT occurred yet. At Rev 1:1 we are told that we would be showed in SIGNS, so these are not literal. The things mentioned here have to do with man's institutions, religious, political,and financial. The things mentioned are to occurr in the Great Tribulation, first the destruction of Babylon the Great, Rev 18, and then what is called the Great Day of God, in many places, Armageddon, Rev 16:16, 19:11-21
    what?........ Am I suppose to believe your posistion becouse you say so [​IMG] please you have to make a better argument than that.
     
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