David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Whenever you go to accuse a member of Christ, best to make sure you FIRST provide the evidence of that which you accuse
Lest you fall into judgement
Revelation 20: 5&6
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Whenever you go to accuse a member of Christ, best to make sure you FIRST provide the evidence of that which you accuse
Lest you fall into judgement
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Now apply your own words: "then go against no brainer verses...what kind of "super christian" does that?
The WORD will judge your own words to His words; "Immediately AFTER the tribulation.............I COME for My Elect"
JESUS Says to @rebuilder 454 and all of us = Matthew 12:37
For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Therefore, let us fear God my brother in Christ, and only AGREE with and only speak the words of Christ to each other.
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Credibility taking a hammering ?
Try answering a simple question that grants you credibility in the eyes of those you profess Scripture to :)
Your FLAT earth Bible claim - why does Canada see the North star yet Argentina never does ?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
EVIDENCE was provided to you at least five times.
What did you do with it? = you chose the way of mocking God
Stay with the satanists and you will eat of the fruit of their doings.
God calls people to become part of the body and bride of Christ, but that call ends when Jesus returns for his bride at the first resurrection and rapture. As Jesus mentioned in the parable of the ten virgins, Matthew 25:10 (WEB):
(10) While they went away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.
If you're not already a believer when Jesus returns then you have "missed the boat" - it will be too late.
So Jews who "confess with {their} mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in {their} heart that God raised him from the dead" (Romans 10:9) will be saved, and "They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again" (Romans 11:23). However, the 144,000 Israelites mentioned in Revelation 7 and 14 do not become believers, and are not sealed, until after the first resurrection has taken place, and so they become believers too late to become member of the body of Christ. However, they are saved and will have eternal life because they do become believers. Everyone has to become a believer during the 1,000 years reign of Christ in order to have eternal life:
John 12:48 WEB
(48) He who rejects me, and doesn’t receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 6:39-40 WEB(39) This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day.
(40) This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Revelation 1:7 WEB(7) Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, including those who pierced him. All the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so, Amen.
Having become believers in Jesus, they would naturally "follow the Lamb wherever he goes".
As I already explained, I don't see it saying that they are in heaven. It does not say "specifically" that they are in heaven. You are (incorrectly I believe) assuming that the reference to Mount Zion is to a place in heaven rather than the more normal reference to Mount Zion in Jerusalem, in the land of Israel, on the earth. As the Cambridge Bible Notes says:
on the mount Sion] Probably the earthly one—the heavenly Jerusalem of chapter 21 has not yet appeared. And in Rev_11:7-8 we had an intimation that the seer’s gaze was now directed to Jerusalem: Babylon, though mentioned in Rev_14:8, is not seen till chapter 17.
Note that the 144,000 have Lamb's "name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads" (Revelation 14:1), whereas for Christians -Revelation 3:12 (WEB):
(12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
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You're a 'false apostle', compared to the true Apostle Paul who said these things are an 'allegory'.
Well it's kindergarten stuff to you, but to us is spiritual and of the Kingdom of GOD from above.
Under your goofy ignorance, 'Sarah' is an illusion too as is Mt Sion?
You and David can continue in your kindergarten stuff dilemma, there's an actual Mt. Zion in Heaven, but to us is 'hilarious'.
Likewise, muslim jihadist also have the dilemma believing scripturally, there are everlasting virgins waiting for them in Heaven.
The '24 elders in Heaven' are the Biblical fathers of Israel in the Old Testament, like, 'Enoch, Elijah, Moses and etc. whom are not recorded.
They symbolically 'do not' represent the whole resurrected church, but rather day and night 'in service' with the 'angels', to GOD and the Lamb who actually represent the church fully.
False!
'They' are the 'firstfruits' Jews unto salvation from the ministering and witnessing of John the Baptist to Jesus and their discipleship until His death.
And after they ministered and witnessed making disciple of all nations consisting of Gentiles and scattered Jews.
Even to Paul's conversion and moreover Jews, 'the remnant saved under the election of grace', like the Gentiles.
As they are in the Gospels to the book of Acts, where furthermore the Holy Ghost used them to minister, witness and likewise make discipleship of the same Gospel unto all nations on earth.
Even Apostle Paul ministered and witnessed to Romans church, whereby including him a saved Jew as well, saying;
Romans 11:
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
On these 144,000 of them 'firstfruits', they're having the FATHER's name written in their foreheads. (Besides on the contrary the ones GOD consigned them to disobedience and are enemies of the Gospel, who'll be saved in the end)
Apparently they have been and are a part of the church, even of the 'Jews and Gentiles' as 'one body of Christ', since then until their death, and also until now.
Where on whom's foundation besides the Prophets, our church fathers and we are build upon until today.
For they, 'also are the dead in Christ', and are part of the 'body of Christ' themselves, and rather are the stones placed together with the Chief Corner Stone already laid, to build GOD's everlasting house.
Therefore, why not they're also the dead in Christ who shall rise at the sound of the trumpet during the 'first resurrection', the 'first rapture of the church' said to take place?
From the Gospels to the book of Acts, they followed the Lamb wherever He goes full time, leaving their families and belongings behind.
Even when the Lamb was no longer with them, they followed the Holy Ghost who represented Him to minister and witness the Gospel forth.
For the record, where 'all Israel shall be saved' in the end when the full number of Gentiles have come in, they apparently do not merely sum up to only 144,000.
To 'them' who came out of Egypt where already more than a million, therefore do the math what the population of 'all Israel' will be when the full number of Gentles have come in?
Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
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Evidence was provided to you as well, what did you do with it?
You've ignored them likewise and continue with yours strongly, which 'fall short' to us here and there, as being 'shortsighted' yourself.
Hypocrite!
You do the very same thing that the ones you judge doing.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The true and spiritual mount ZION of GOD is above in heaven , as is the T RUE JERUSALEM ,
THERE IS That which is earthen and is still in b ondage with her children
THERE is that which is above and within all who do beleive IN CHRIST JESUS .
And the temple of THIS great ZION of GOD , this HEAVENLY JERUSALEM
IS G OD and THE LAMB .
Many are caught up with the earthen
T ime to SEEK HE who is above and Sitteth on THE THRONE where the SON maketh intercession for all who do Beleive .
Intefaith will lead this people to the lie and as one will they all do the will of its father , WHICH IS NOT IN HEAVEN
We had better watch out . Be encouraged my friend . Let us read daily the scriptures , let us be in prayer
and be learning .
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
No
We apply and welcome every analogy in the bible.
The error is creating a new meaning outside the bible, or claiming things about Mt Sion that flat out are bogus.
Since you stumble at that...it is goofy what you apply and reject.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Neither I nor God know what you are talking about.
Look up most any commentary.
There is a mt zion in heaven and one on earth.
I suppose you think the temple and Ark in heaven do not actually exist either.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
....and yet we see Mt zion in heaven and on earth.
Ahem.....according to the bible
What you are displaying is contrary to clear scripture.
You think you can allegorize it away.
That can't be correct. Revelation 5:9-10 (WEB)
(9) They {the 24 elders} sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,
(10) and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”
1 Peter 2:9-10 WEB
(9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
(10) who in time past were no people, but now are God’s people, who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The "Biblical fathers of Israel" were not people from "every tribe, language, people and nation" - Christians are. Only Christians are promised to become priests and kings (a "royal priesthood") and to share in Christ's reign over the earth:
Romans 8:16-17 WEB
(16) The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God;
(17) and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.
2 Timothy 2:11-12 WEB(11) This saying is trustworthy: “For if we died with him, we will also live with him.
(12) If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he also will deny us.
Revelation 20:6 WEB(6) Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.
Only Christians, members of the body and bride of Christ, have a part in the first resurrection. From Hebrews 11, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets:
Hebrews 11:39-40 WEB
(39) These all, having had testimony given to them through their faith, didn’t receive the promise,
(40) God having provided some better thing concerning us, so that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
i.e. Christians have to be resurrected first before these Old Testament "fathers of Israel" could be made perfect (resurrected).
Concerning the 144,000 you said:
They can't be, because the 144,000 don't become the 144,000 sealed Israelites until after the resurrected Church in heaven witness Jesus take the scroll from God (just before Revelation 5:9 that I quoted above) and then open the first six seals, resulting in the Great Tribulation coming upon those on the earth (Revelation 6:17 - "for the great day of his wrath has come; and who is able to stand?”). Only then are the 144,000 mentioned, and they are described as being servants of God, whereas Christians are children of God (as quoted in Romans 8:16 above).
The remnant of Israel that Paul mentions in Romans are the Jews who became the first Christians, with the apostles and disciples not preaching to the Gentiles until about 3.5 years after Jesus' resurrection, when Peter was sent to Cornelius (Acts chapter 10).
They are sealed with God's seal (the Name of God and of the Lamb of God) so that the four destroying angels to whom it was given to harm the earth and the sea (Revelation 7:2) could avoid hurting those sealed.
They can't be among the "dead in Christ" because the first resurrection had already taken place and all the dead Christians had been resurrected and raptured, and are with Christ in heaven, whereas the 144,000 Israelites are living on the earth and go through the Great Tribulation.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Yep
100% no brainer.
Doctrine redefines the 144,000.
Amazing we are told WHO they are and WHAT they are, including their role and mission, aas you pointed out.
It is SO EASY to spot false doctrine
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Regulators
Mount up , we got The mother of all abominations who has well come within every realm of man
Time to expose the ho and to preach JESUS and all biblical sound doctrine .
There will be NO compromise . The whore will not rest or abate from her fury against the saints
till in her minds eye every last saint be dead and she rule a queen forever .
Nor will the sheep take any time off , rest not , but expose every one who does her work .
That whore will present herself in front of this battle field
and will kneel before every single church and beg forgiveness for nearly two thousand years of all
the decieving she has done to e very man , woman and child
Before i ever once cease to expose her . The battle line has been drawn my friend . AND blood against
the sheep is coming . fear that ho not , nor her men who can at most kill only the body .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
A man or woman who follows Christ
is a man or woman that will Not compromise .
They will not put govt , man , anything before GOD all MIGHTY and the LAMB .
And beleive you me david , THAT MAKES THEM ENEMY NUMBER ONE of the WORLD ORDER .
they cannot be bought with rubies and gold
with promises of an easy and better life
Nor will they fear a thing or a t hreat that man can do to them .
TO LIVE IS CHRIST , TO DIE IS GAIN . and the govts of the world KNOW THIS .
What i type next , might sound like bold words and even madness to this g eneration .
BUT i had rather be put in prison and even killed , LONG BEFORE i compromise a millimeter in the direction of man
and away from GOD .
And i aint stupied or foolish , I ALREADY KNOW its ONLY GOD , CHRIST i can trust in TO GIVE ME
the strength i need to be faithful to the end . NO COMPROMISE , and may i be long dead before i do .
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