Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Hepzibah]

The problem with your argument is that you are bringing in Gnosticism, Augustine, Pelagius, George Fox, and church history when John himself tells us what he means. I am going to stay with Scripture.

John does not say, “If the Gnostics say they have no sin.” He includes himself and his Christian readers:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

Notice what immediately follows:

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

Then John says again:

“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:10).

John says “we” throughout the passage. He then addresses believers directly:

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1).

That directly contradicts your interpretation. John commands Christians not to sin, but he also recognizes that a Christian may sin and tells believers that when this happens, “we have an advocate with the Father.”

First John 3:9 does not contradict 1 John 1:8 or 2:1. In context, John is describing the character and continuing conduct of someone born of God. The ESV renders the point clearly: “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning.” John is condemning a life characterized by sin. He is not teaching that a Christian reaches a condition in which he can truthfully say, “I have no sin.”

First John 1:8 does not excuse sin, and I have never used it that way. Christians are commanded to pursue holiness and put sin to death. But Scripture does not permit us to turn that command into a claim of personal sinlessness.

There is a difference between not practicing sin and claiming to be without sin. John commands the first and warns against claiming the second.

I certanly will not bring Augustine in, the author of Calvinism.

John is using 'we' in the royal 'we' form, if you have heard of that. It has been famously used by the late queen and is a common literally practise..

John says IF we sin not when we sin. Agreed that there is a remedy for it so that we can be thoroughly cleansed again.

You are missing out verse such as:

1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is the problem with those with your theology - cherry picking texts that suit your ideas.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace, no. You do not "set the record straight" by decreeing what theological label goes on me.

If you believe I have taught Calvinism, quote what I have taught. Then prove from Scripture that what I taught is incorrect. I have been very clear about what I believe. I am not hiding behind a doctrinal system or skirting any issues.

You said that labels are a waste of time and cause us to focus on something other than the word of God. Your post did both of those things. Focus on what I said, not where you want to place me in a box.

What I've said is that labels are OK.
It cuts through a lot of wasted babble and gets straight to the theology.
You call me a works salvationist.
See. I immediately know how to address your posts.

You post what a calvinist would post.
Until proven otherwise, I am certain that you are calvinist in theology.
As I've said before...
if you don't like being a calvinist...
don't post like one.

You want me to look for quotes from you...
then prove from scripture that you're wrong?

What have I been doing all this time?
Do you read my posts to you?

 

[Grailhunter]

Not accepting what God says leads to questions that separates one from the Lord which is what unbelief does.

I don't question what God said. But I do question its context in relation to the scriptures as a whole.
If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26
This would make for a really weird religion if you took it literally.

 

[Episkopos]

The teaching presented here, that claims that moral non Christians will be accepted into the kingdom without Christ, and the fact that it is tolerated.

Nobody said that. That's your religious conditioning speaking. What a carnal theology proposes is that anyone who is not born again is going to hell....which is unbiblical. That's what causes so many people to claim they are born again...when they obviously are not. It's the same with conflating the baptism of the Spirit with tongues. So in that theory whoever doesn't speak in tongues doesn't have the Holy Spirit. So then millions of people fake tongues to be seen as having the Spirit.

You are operating on that level here.

The righteous will be saved on judgment day if they are faithful till the end. The meek will inherit the earth IF they continue in meekness till the end. People will be forgiven IF they continue to forgive others till the end.

That is what the bible teaches.

You are confusing the kingdom of God and glory, with mercy. But that's normal for people who don't understand either righteousness or holiness.

 

[Hepzibah]

Nobody said that. That's your religious conditioning speaking. What a carnal theology proposes is that anyone who is not born again is going to hell....which is unbiblical. That's what causes so many people to claim they are born again...when they obviously are not. It's the same with conflating the baptism of the Spirit with tongues. So in that theory whoever doesn't speak in tongues doesn't have the Holy Spirit. So then millions of people fake tongues to be seen as having the Spirit.

You are operating on that level here.

The righteous will be saved on judgment day if they are faithful till the end. The meek will inherit the earth IF they continue in meekness till the end. People will be forgiven IF they continue to forgive others till the end.

That is what the bible teaches.

You are confusing the kingdom of God and glory, with mercy. But that's normal for people who don't understand either righteousness or holiness.

Scripture does not teach works salvation as so many here have tried to tell you.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't question what God said. But I do question its context in relation to the scriptures as a whole.
If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26
This would make for a really weird religion if you took it literally.

You don't understand the cost of discipleship....because you have never had to face the Lord.

I forgot to mention that you are very fortunate in that one of my specialties is saving indoctrinated theologians like yourself. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Scripture does not teach works salvation as so many here have tried to tell you.

You mean works righteousness. And yes it does. Open up that bible sista! It's time to get into the word.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Agreed. Luther was a false teacher.

What about John Calvin?

Does he float your boat?

 

[Grailhunter]

The theologian...the one who decides if the witch is to burn? ;) As in.... "She IS a witch!"

You don't learn truth in a seminary or a bible school. They are there to find you a spouse...while pretending to sound spiritual. You know that.

But you are unable to challenge me on anything I have said, or recorded in my podcast...because you don't understand either righteousness or holiness.

All you have is a vain religion set up by men. No approval of God.

You don't even have to try proving me wrong....you won't listen to the OP anyway.

I am sure I could challenge you because you are not real good at what you do.
And you do not know my religion but if you believe in anything close to Calvinism, you hide what you believe because you know people will reject you.

Like I said, Calvinist are infiltrators, they criticize what others believe to pull them in....deception plain and simple.

Do these people here know you do not believe in free will?
Do these people here know you believe babies go to Hell?
Do these people here know you believe that God decides if they are going to Hell or Heaven before they are born?
And then there is TULIP

T - Stands for Total Depravity​

The belief in total depravity takes the view that sinfulness pervades all areas of life and human existence. Through the Fall of Man, humanity is stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body. This means people cannot independently choose God.

Calvinism insists that God must do all the work, from choosing those who will be saved to sanctifying them throughout their lives until they die and go to heaven. Calvinists cite numerous scripture verses supporting humanity's fallen and sinful nature, such as Mark 7:21-23, Romans 6:20, and 1 Corinthians 2:14.

U - Stands for Unconditional Election
This Calvinist view says God chooses who will be saved. Because people are dead in their sins, they are unable to initiate a response to God. In eternity past God elected certain people to be saved. The saved people are called the Elect. God picks them based not on their personal character or merit, but out of his kindness and sovereign will. It also means selection for salvation is not based on God's foreknowledge of who would come to faith in the future. Since some are chosen for salvation, others are not. Those not chosen are the damned, destined for an eternity in hell.

L - Stands for Limited Atonement
Limited atonement is the view that Jesus Christ died only for the sins of the Elect, according to John Calvin. Support for this belief comes from verses that say Jesus died for "many," such as Matthew 20:28 and Hebrews 9:28. This point is one of the more controversial beliefs of Calvinism.

Those who teach "Four Point Calvinism" believe Christ died not for just the Elect but for the entire world; in other words, they reject limited atonement. They cite these verses, among others: John 3:16, Acts 2:21,1 Timothy 2:3-4, and 1 John 2:2.

I - Stands for Irresistible Grace
Irresistible grace is the belief that God brings his Elect to salvation through an internal call, which they are powerless to resist. The Holy Spirit supplies grace to them until they repent and are born again.

P - Stands for Perseverance of the Saints
Calvinism teaches that the Elect cannot lose their salvation. Because salvation is the work of God the Father; Jesus Christ, the Savior; and the Holy Spirit, it cannot be thwarted. None whom God has called will be lost, they are eternally secure.
Technically, however, it is God who perseveres, not the saints themselves. Calvin's doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is in contrast to the theology of Lutheranism and the Roman Catholic Church, which hold that people can lose their salvation.

 

[Hepzibah]

You mean works righteousness. And yes it does. Open up that bible sista! It's time to get into the word.

Your teaching has never appeared in either the fully sanctified early church fathers or those teaching holiness through church history. Tell me who else taught it.

 

[Grailhunter]

You don't understand the cost of discipleship....because you have never had to face the Lord.

I forgot to mention that you are very fortunate in that one of my specialties is saving indoctrinated theologians like yourself. :)

LOL

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It's what (and how) you wrote in post #1904, haughty religious testosterone, not even given credit to your Creator.

Yeah man, ya gotta watch out for those HRT people.

you are very fortunate in that one of my specialties is saving indoctrinated theologians like yourself. :)

Wow so your providing salvation for people now?

Scripture does not teach works salvation as so many here have tried to tell you.

Funny how scripture tells us we shall be judged based on our actions. Weird.

 

[Episkopos]

I am sure I could challenge you because you are not real good at what you do.
And you do not know my religion but if you believe in anything close to Calvinism, you hide what you believe because you know people will reject you.

Like I said, Calvinist are infiltrators, they criticize what others believe to pull them in....deception plain and simple.

Do these people here know you do not believe in free will?
Do these people here know you believe babies go to Hell?
Do these people here know you believe that God decides if they are going to Hell or Heaven before they are born?
And then there is TULIP

T - Stands for Total Depravity​

The belief in total depravity takes the view that sinfulness pervades all areas of life and human existence. Through the Fall of Man, humanity is stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body. This means people cannot independently choose God.

Calvinism insists that God must do all the work, from choosing those who will be saved to sanctifying them throughout their lives until they die and go to heaven. Calvinists cite numerous scripture verses supporting humanity's fallen and sinful nature, such as Mark 7:21-23, Romans 6:20, and 1 Corinthians 2:14.

U - Stands for Unconditional Election
This Calvinist view says God chooses who will be saved. Because people are dead in their sins, they are unable to initiate a response to God. In eternity past God elected certain people to be saved. The saved people are called the Elect. God picks them based not on their personal character or merit, but out of his kindness and sovereign will. It also means selection for salvation is not based on God's foreknowledge of who would come to faith in the future. Since some are chosen for salvation, others are not. Those not chosen are the damned, destined for an eternity in hell.

L - Stands for Limited Atonement
Limited atonement is the view that Jesus Christ died only for the sins of the Elect, according to John Calvin. Support for this belief comes from verses that say Jesus died for "many," such as Matthew 20:28 and Hebrews 9:28. This point is one of the more controversial beliefs of Calvinism.

Those who teach "Four Point Calvinism" believe Christ died not for just the Elect but for the entire world; in other words, they reject limited atonement. They cite these verses, among others: John 3:16, Acts 2:21,1 Timothy 2:3-4, and 1 John 2:2.

I - Stands for Irresistible Grace
Irresistible grace is the belief that God brings his Elect to salvation through an internal call, which they are powerless to resist. The Holy Spirit supplies grace to them until they repent and are born again.

P - Stands for Perseverance of the Saints
Calvinism teaches that the Elect cannot lose their salvation. Because salvation is the work of God the Father; Jesus Christ, the Savior; and the Holy Spirit, it cannot be thwarted. None whom God has called will be lost, they are eternally secure.
Technically, however, it is God who perseveres, not the saints themselves. Calvin's doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is in contrast to the theology of Lutheranism and the Roman Catholic Church, which hold that people can lose their salvation.

I knew this stuff way before you did. And I'm not a nail for your hammer. You have zero reading skills and zero discernment. Like any indoctrinated religiosnist you are projecting on me what you want me to be.

I'm not a Calvinist...I'm spiritual in Christ. As such I teach both righteousness and holiness...in a balanced way whereby one doesn't negate the other....as you are doing.

Instead of accusing me of being a Calvinist, why not admit you are an Arminian? Use a positive tone rather than an accusing tone.

Didn't they teach you that over and over again in bible school?

What I teach is that God has mercy on people for their own works of righteousness...He imputes their righteousness to themselves. But I ALSO teach the higher walk in holiness by the resurrection life of Christ for all those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

I'm here to try saving your your soul away from the vain religious stuff. :)

 

[Grailhunter]

I knew this stuff way before you did. And I'm not a nail for your hammer. You have zero reading skills and zero discernment. Like any indoctrinated religiosnist you are projecting on me what you want me to be.

I'm not a Calvinist...I'm spiritual in Christ. As such I teach both righteousness and holiness...in a balanced way whereby one doesn't negate the other....as you are doing.

Instead of accusing me of being a Calvinist, why not admit you are an Arminian? Use a positive tone rather than an accusing tone.

Didn't they teach you that over and over again in bible school?

What I teach is that God has mercy on people for their own works of righteousness...He imputes their righteousness to themselves. But I ALSO teach the higher walk in holiness by the resurrection life of Christ for all those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

I'm here to try saving your your soul away from the vain religious stuff. :)

Oh, I am sorry.....I said anything close to Calvinist.....So you deny all that I posted?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I'm here to try saving your your soul away from the vain religious stuff. :)

Hopefully you can save his soul!

 

[Episkopos]

What about John Calvin?

Does he float your boat? View attachment 88913

You mean Jean Calvin??? I don't follow any man-made theologies. Do you?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

You mean Jean Calvin???

No, I'm talkin bout your boy John Calvin.

Never heard of Jean Calvin.

I don't follow any man-made theologies.

If you say so

 

[Episkopos]

Oh, I am sorry.....I said anything close to Calvinist.....So you deny all that I posted?

I don't deny that there are 5 point Calvinists in the world. There are extremes of all sorts.

I believe in God's salvation for all who do His will whatever the religious belief is. God doesn't care what our beliefs are. Only a carnal and rebellious decoy church teaches that we will be judged based on the accuracy of our beliefs.

So I don't believe in total depravity. Some people are naturally righteous and pure hearted...as Jesus states.

Unconditional election? Well, God elects whom He wills but that person can still end up in outer darkness. So there is ONLY a conditional salvation.

Limited atonement? Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...buying His creation back with His death on the cross. It is finished.


Irresistible grace? Well, sort of. But sin takes us away from wherever God takes us. We have free agency at all times.

Perseverance of the saints? That's looking at it backward...the saint is only such if he perseveres till the end.

Because I'm not a Calvinist does that mean that I must be a JW then...I mean to make your presence here count? Is the world only divided into the camps that you specialize in?

 

[ProDeo]

I don't deny that there are 5 point Calvinists in the world. There are extremes of all sorts.

I believe in God's salvation for all who do His will whatever the religious belief is. God doesn't care what our beliefs are. Only a carnal and rebellious decoy church teaches that we will be judged based on the accuracy of our beliefs.

So I don't believe in total depravity. Some people are naturally righteous and pure hearted...as Jesus states.

Still sinners in need for Christ.

I liked your post anyway.

Unconditional election? Well, God elects whom He wills but that person can still end up in outer darkness. So there is ONLY a conditional salvation.

Limited atonement? Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...buying His creation back with His death on the cross. It is finished.


Irresistible grace? Well, sort of. But sin takes us away from wherever God takes us. We have free agency at all times.

Perseverance of the saints? That's looking at it backward...the saint is only such if he perseveres till the end.

Because I'm not a Calvinist does that mean that I must be a JW then...I mean to make your presence here count? Is the world only divided into the camps that you specialize in?

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't deny that there are 5 point Calvinists in the world. There are extremes of all sorts.

I believe in God's salvation for all who do His will whatever the religious belief is. God doesn't care what our beliefs are. Only a carnal and rebellious decoy church teaches that we will be judged based on the accuracy of our beliefs.

So I don't believe in total depravity. Some people are naturally righteous and pure hearted...as Jesus states.

Unconditional election? Well, God elects whom He wills but that person can still end up in outer darkness. So there is ONLY a conditional salvation.

Limited atonement? Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...buying His creation back with His death on the cross. It is finished.


Irresistible grace? Well, sort of. But sin takes us away from wherever God takes us. We have free agency at all times.

Perseverance of the saints? That's looking at it backward...the saint is only such if he perseveres till the end.

Because I'm not a Calvinist does that mean that I must be a JW then...I mean to make your presence here count? Is the world only divided into the camps that you specialize in?

I am seeing some double talk here.
God cares about what we believe.
So are you saying you believe in free-will?
And that God does not predestine people to go to Heaven or Hell?
And what about babies that die, do you believe they go to Heaven?
So you do not believe in OSAS?