Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[shepherdsword]

I think I did understand what he said, however he is certainly free to clarify if there is a misunderstanding. Go back to what I posted and then what he posted in reply. #121 and #122 on this page 7. I shared the scripture that says Faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR, and the evidence of things NOT SEEN. Instead of agreeing with the scripture, he refuted it to imply that if there is genuine faith, it will be accompanied by something that is seen......God confirming the faith. I'm saying, not always and not necessarily yet. Epi's theology denies that through faith what is not yet seen is imputed to us before it is manifested/seen. Scripture also says we are saved by hope, and who already has what he hopes for.

But as I said Epi is certainly free to clarify himself if need be.

His latest video teaching says that protestant "positional" doctrine is false. I would say that it isn't false exactly, but needs to go even further! Its' more than merely positional, it is actual truth regarding our new man, which has been created in Christ's image....and therefore must be perfect, whole, and lacking nothing.

I didn't see a refutation of Hebrews 11:1. What I saw was an attempt to clarify what "substance" actually is and the difference between faith and "beliefs". Many confuse faith with some tenet they believe in as ideology but that is not real faith. What is wrong with that?

 

[Lizbeth]

I didn't see a refutation of Hebrews 11:1. What I saw was an attempt to clarify what "substance" actually is and the difference between faith and "beliefs".

Faith IS the substance. Of things HOPED FOR. Faith IS the evidence of things NOT SEEN. The substance is faith, not what is seen. Epi as much as said if you can't see it, it's not evidence....equating it to the courts of this world who have to see it to believe it.

Many confuse faith with some tenet they believe in as ideology but that is not real faith. What is wrong with that?

I certainly agree there is a difference between genuine faith and mere mental belief. And I believe that faith itself needs to grow/increase.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Are you upset that the man will not confirm you in your belief that you are perfect and lacking nothing?

 

[Lizbeth]

Are you upset that the man will not confirm you in your belief that you are perfect and lacking nothing?

No I'm not at all upset. I suppose you thought you were hearing from the Holy Spirit. I don't believe at all that I am perfect and lacking nothing in my life and heart and walk. Still have things to overcome and I only know it because the Lord is faithful and gracious to shine His light for me to see by.

I disagree with Epi because his theology throws the baby out with the bathwater. And that I will admit has been very disappointing, because I see nobody else talking about holiness on forums that I have seen, and there is not much else that interests me these days.

You can't simply agree that scripture does say All things HAVE been put under the feet of Christ? So you can't agree with these below either and only want to mock someone who does..?

Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The new man must be perfect, whole and lacking nothing. According to these scriptures......since it is made in the image of God/Christ who is perfect, whole and lacking nothing. The issue to my understanding of scripture is whether, or how much, or to what degree we are putting on and walking in the new man.

 

[amigo de christo]

No I'm not at all upset. I suppose you thought you were hearing from the Holy Spirit. I don't believe at all that I am perfect and lacking nothing in my life and heart and walk. Still have things to overcome and I only know it because the Lord is faithful and gracious to shine His light for me to see by.

I disagree with Epi because his theology throws the baby out with the bathwater. And that I will admit has been very disappointing, because I see nobody else talking about holiness on forums that I have seen, and there is not much else that interests me these days.

You can't simply agree that scripture does say All things HAVE been put under the feet of Christ? So you can't agree with these below either and only want to mock someone who does..?

Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The new man must be perfect, whole and lacking nothing. According to these scriptures......since it is made in the image of God/Christ who is perfect, whole and lacking nothing. The issue to my understanding of scripture is whether, or how much, or to what degree we are putting on and walking in the new man.

You might be wondering or not , where is amigo .
SISTER that man epi DONE THREW the baby Out with the bath water . There is nothing more i can for him .
WHEN ya put the cart in front of the horse , IT WONT WORK no matter HOW HARD one pulls .

 

[MostlyConfused]

No I'm not at all upset. I suppose you thought you were hearing from the Holy Spirit. I don't believe at all that I am perfect and lacking nothing in my life and heart and walk. Still have things to overcome and I only know it because the Lord is faithful and gracious to shine His light for me to see by.

I disagree with Epi because his theology throws the baby out with the bathwater. And that I will admit has been very disappointing, because I see nobody else talking about holiness on forums that I have seen, and there is not much else that interests me these days.

You can't simply agree that scripture does say All things HAVE been put under the feet of Christ? So you can't agree with these below either and only want to mock someone who does..?

Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The new man must be perfect, whole and lacking nothing. According to these scriptures......since it is made in the image of God/Christ who is perfect, whole and lacking nothing. The issue to my understanding of scripture is whether, or how much, or to what degree we are putting on and walking in the new man.

You say as far as God is concerned you are already perfect but you (and others) don’t see that perfection manifested yet. If I am understanding you correctly, that is what you are saying. And you say it depends on to what degree or how much you are putting on the new man. But what I have seen is that that until we become completely disgusted with our old man and how he harasses us and pushes us around through our emotions,our angers, our fears, our pride, our self interest, our self will, we will not have a new man TO put on because we have not surrendered the old one but are rather being ruled over and abused by him. The new man does not get put on top of the old man. The old man must die. We do not crucify ourselves. When we surrender (and it doesn’t matter if we know that’s what we are doing or not, it is God who knows and accepts our cry as surrender) we get confirmation that God has accepted our sacrifice/our willingness to surrender and be free of our enemy because we are bathed in a peace that is shocking because it’s something we have never felt before. I don’t think anyone who experiences it will fail to walk around in a daze for at least a few days. That other man in here talked about a visitation. If that peace and total calming of our proud waves is not a visitation then I don’t know what is.
And even then, after more than 5 months of this peace, with any upset in me being almost instantly calmed by Him, I don’t think I have put on the new man. If I try too hard to reason out where I must be or what He must be doing, some agitations come and I THINK that’s because my old man is struggling a bit to get his throat from under my foot (or whoever’s foot he is under!) and be in control of me again. If agitations HAVE to come, it will be because God says so, to help me, but if it’s at all in my power, I will not be the one CAUSING the disturbance.

I think you are upset and if you will insist you aren’t I will say, then you are extremely frustrated and agitated and dismayed and have not yet realized that YOU are the enemy whose teeth God must break and get to surrender. And oddly, you begin to not see yourself as yourself any more because God has somehow separated you from yourself. I couldn’t really explain it I don’t guess but who you always viewed as yourself you begin to view as not yourself but rather as your enemy.

I don’t understand how you will be free unless you stop insisting God sees you as perfect and complete. The thought may comfort you somehow but I can’t see how it will ever bring you to the necessary surrender of yourself into His hands so He can do with you, to you and in you what He desires and wills.

If you turn and trample this with another remark like “I suppose you think you heard from the Holy Spirit,” I will leave you to your agitation rather than trying to further encourage you.

 

[Lizbeth]

You say as far as God is concerned you are already perfect but you (and others) don’t see that perfection manifested yet. If I am understanding you correctly, that is what you are saying. And you say it depends on to what degree or how much you are putting on the new man. But what I have seen is that that until we become completely disgusted with our old man and how he harasses us and pushes us around through our emotions,our angers, our fears, our pride, our self interest, our self will, we will not have a new man TO put on because we have not surrendered the old one but are rather being ruled over and abused by him. The new man does not get put on top of the old man. The old man must die. We do not crucify ourselves. When we surrender (and it doesn’t matter if we know that’s what we are doing or not, it is God who knows and accepts our cry as surrender) we get confirmation that God has accepted our sacrifice/our willingness to surrender and be free of our enemy because we are bathed in a peace that is shocking because it’s something we have never felt before. I don’t think anyone who experiences it will fail to walk around in a daze for at least a few days. That other man in here talked about a visitation. If that peace and total calming of our proud waves is not a visitation then I don’t know what is.
And even then, after more than 5 months of this peace, with any upset in me being almost instantly calmed by Him, I don’t think I have put on the new man. If I try too hard to reason out where I must be or what He must be doing, some agitations come and I THINK that’s because my old man is struggling a bit to get his throat from under my foot (or whoever’s foot he is under!) and be in control of me again. If agitations HAVE to come, it will be because God says so, to help me, but if it’s at all in my power, I will not be the one CAUSING the disturbance.

I think you are upset and if you will insist you aren’t I will say, then you are extremely frustrated and agitated and dismayed and have not yet realized that YOU are the enemy whose teeth God must break and get to surrender. And oddly, you begin to not see yourself as yourself any more because God has somehow separated you from yourself. I couldn’t really explain it I don’t guess but who you always viewed as yourself you begin to view as not yourself but rather as your enemy.

I don’t understand how you will be free unless you stop insisting God sees you as perfect and complete. The thought may comfort you somehow but I can’t see how it will ever bring you to the necessary surrender of yourself into His hands so He can do with you, to you and in you what He desires and wills.

If you turn and trample this with another remark like “I suppose you think you heard from the Holy Spirit,” I will leave you to your agitation rather than trying to further encourage you.

I truly don't know what agitation or upset you are talking about. But I appreciate you sharing your testimony.

The way I understand this, it is a kind of paradox, sister. And the truth in heaven trumps facts on the ground.

I think it is our desire to be pleasing to the Lord that motivates us....love for Him which comes from His spirit within us, which motivates us and wars against the flesh. As well as there is fear of the Lord as we need it. But the whole vein and tone of the scriptures that I see is that we are exhorted to live up to what we have already received in Christ:

Rom 6:1-12

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


When we become aware by God's grace that we are falling short of that in some ways..."what then do I still lack".... it troubles our conscience by the Holy Spirit within us, our new man within, and so we start to seek for "what we still lack". As I see this. So all glory is His, and it is even He leading us through circumstances in our lives that help us to this end.....that we may partake of His holiness....and, if we suffer with Him we shall also reign with Him (our new man reigning over our old man).

 

[MostlyConfused]

Well I think you should just continue that way then and should keep believing what you already believe and should disregard what I have said as being a thing that is not good for you. I mean, really, who am I that you should listen to me anyway? I cant even figure out how to turn on cookies!!

 

[amigo de christo]

Well I think you should just continue that way then and should keep believing what you already believe and should disregard what I have said as being a thing that is not good for you. I mean, really, who am I that you should listen to me anyway? I cant even figure out how to turn on cookies!!

pay close heed to what you just wrote .
DID you ever once SEE JESUS say this .
DID you ev er once see the apostels say t his .
OR rather TO TAKE HEED .
THE POINT i make and am making is , YOU are not , I AM NOT , they are not GOD .
SO LONG was what one is saying IS THE TRUTH , then folks SHOULD take heed to it .
NOW if its the mixture , YEAH DONT TAKE HEED TO IT .
That is why I exposed what you wrote .
Anyone can believe what they are saying is the TRUTH .
And sometimes IT IS , or sometimes it aint .
That is where correction comes in my friend .
SO do allow me some parting words , THE JUDGE NOT CORRECT NOT SEEKER FRIENDLY ,
OH IT was of satan . And that my friend is a solid TRUTH which easily can be proven .
BY THE SCRIPTURES . And now a word
You sh all NOT HATE your neighbor in your heart , you SHALL CORRECT HIM and NOT ALLOW sin upon Him .
MANY m ore are the scrips i can b ring as well . SO allow
a final plea , well not final , cause as long as b reath be in my lun gs i am gonna remind ,
but allow a plea to be made . WEHASABEDDABIBLEUP . or in proper english
WE BETTER BIBLE UP . AND NOW .

 

[MostlyConfused]

I’m terribly sorry but I do not understand a word of what you just said. I read it twice. I can’t make head or tails of what you were trying to say.

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m terribly sorry but I do not understand a word of what you just said. I read it twice. I can’t make head or tails of what you were trying to say.

well lets just sum it up by saying , Lets all simply get in the bible for ourselves .
And stop reading it through any denomintional view .
Just read and enjoy them lovely words . In time the understanding becomes more and more clear .

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m terribly sorry but I do not understand a word of what you just said. I read it twice. I can’t make head or tails of what you were trying to say.

Ps , seeker friendly truly was of satan , but cloaked to seem as though its good and loving .
Oh but it was of men and NOT of GOD .

 

[Lizbeth]

Well I think you should just continue that way then and should keep believing what you already believe and should disregard what I have said as being a thing that is not good for you. I mean, really, who am I that you should listen to me anyway? I cant even figure out how to turn on cookies!!

Sister, rest assured I don't think God is concerned one bit about whether anyone knows how to turn on cookies or not. ( I dont' even understand what they are or how they work!) But He does care about the truth and He cares about souls. His attitude in His word towards the truth is not careless or cavalier, so ours should not be either. We should only tell someone to carry on believing what they believe if we sincerely think that what they are believing is the truth. Otherwise, for the sake of their soul we should instead try to bring correction through the word of God. I think that is basically what Amigo was trying to bring across. We have a church nowadays that has fallen prey to the political correctness of the world and regards any attempt at correction to equate to condemnation.

I've come across quite a few who give the impression that it doesn't matter what someone believes because God will somehow make it all right regardless, but that is not what His word teaches or implies and it is not the approach that is taken in His word. We can be serious and fervent , contending for the truth, even while resting in God.

And I want to say, please don't dismiss or put yourself down if there is anything you are not understanding.....seek the Lord for understanding and wisdom and He will give it to the sincerely seeking soul. We are in a spiritual battle and we're all growing and learning. Sometimes I come up against a brick wall and it seems impossible for me to understand a thing, it's so easy to be discouraged.....but then after seeking the Lord and waiting upon Him, one day out of the blue it's like He turns on the lights and the brick wall is just gone and understanding comes.

 

[Episkopos]

I disagree with Epi because his theology throws the baby out with the bathwater.

What you are not yet understanding is that your "baby" has claws and is very defensive...akin to an active and uncrucified outer man. That baby needs to go to the cross and get out of the way to allow the inner man in you, no doubt so buried that it is practically impossible to tell it apart from the part you are babying... to actually know God and His power over sin.

And that I will admit has been very disappointing, because I see nobody else talking about holiness on forums that I have seen

Of course not. Holiness is like truth...people HATE the truth. What you seek is a holiness that avoids the cross. Most people just avoid holiness altogether. But what you are looking for will either cause you to finally repent, or make you dive deeper into iniquity...by claiming to be rich in grace whereas you are poor and blind.

The new man must be perfect, whole and lacking nothing.

Not must be, but is. You are making room for the flesh.

According to these scriptures......since it is made in the image of God/Christ who is perfect, whole and lacking nothing. The issue to my understanding of scripture is whether, or how much, or to what degree we are putting on and walking in the new man.

There is no such a thing as a progressive holiness. One is either holy or not. One is either a sinner or delivered from sin. You are looking for loopholes where none exists.

 

[Episkopos]

I’m terribly sorry but I do not understand a word of what you just said. I read it twice. I can’t make head or tails of what you were trying to say.

You are better off not knowing what the poster thinks...unless you are into virtue signalling, pontificating and religious sounding twaddle that looks down on others.

 

[Episkopos]

The way I understand this

Lean not on your own understanding

, it is a kind of paradox, sister.

The paradox is the "mystery of iniquity" sent from God as a strong delusion for all who try avoiding the cross.

And the truth in heaven trumps facts on the ground.

This is Gnosticism. The truth in heaven overcomes the world.

I think it is our desire to be pleasing to the Lord that motivates us.

This is the excuse of all who try using God's name in vain.

...love for Him which comes from His spirit within us, which motivates us and wars against the flesh. As well as there is fear of the Lord as we need it. But the whole vein and tone of the scriptures that I see is that we are exhorted to live up to what we have already received in Christ:

You can't build on holiness. Holiness is grace from God...and only He can add to it. What you can do is support the truth by obeying the Lord, humbling yourself and stop judging. Why be a Pharisee because of a perceived grace?

When we become aware by God's grace that we are falling short of that in some ways..."what then do I still lack".... it troubles our conscience by the Holy Spirit within us, our new man within, and so we start to seek for "what we still lack". As I see this. So all glory is His, and it is even He leading us through circumstances in our lives that help us to this end.....that we may partake of His holiness....and, if we suffer with Him we shall also reign with Him (our new man reigning over our old man).

In theory this is correct. But in practice very few will surrender what they think they have in order to discover a truth they have never known. Basically, grace comes with a great test...that you are not seeing. Your blindness to God's ways will never lead you into His life. You have to surrender...yes, even the baby you want to cuddle...surrender ALL to God, as a living sacrifice. God doesn't receive progressive sacrifices.

 

[MostlyConfused]

You are better off not knowing what the poster thinks...unless you are into virtue signalling, pontificating and religious sounding twaddle that looks down on others.

Ouch. Was this good for you? I think it harms you.
i joined maybe 10 or 12 days ago and found a pretty righteous man (I think his name was shepherds word) and so I wanted to read a bit of him, which led me to you and so I wanted to read some of what you had to say too. So I have seen more than you might know.
Do you think it is possible to shake dust from your feet quietly and without a word (or just a few blandly polite words) if any word would avail nothing good?
I beg you to not be mad at me and maybe I shouldn’t have said anything. I have been enjoying your videos and have wanted often to comment but did not because I saw you are followed by some who want to fight and dispute who would pile in(and also because I think I talk too much and seek conversation for approval for my flesh, which I try to starve whenever it’s in my power to do so.)
Now I feel like I am the one pontificating, (a word I had to look up. Interesting origin.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Lean not on your own understanding


The paradox is the "mystery of iniquity" sent from God as a strong delusion for all who try avoiding the cross.


This is Gnosticism. The truth in heaven overcomes the world.


This is the excuse of all who try using God's name in vain.


You can't build on holiness. Holiness is grace from God...and only He can add to it. What you can do is support the truth by obeying the Lord, humbling yourself and stop judging. Why be a Pharisee because of a perceived grace?

In theory this is correct. But in practice very few will surrender what they think they have in order to discover a truth they have never known. Basically, grace comes with a great test...that you are not seeing. Your blindness to God's ways will never lead you into His life. You have to surrender...yes, even the baby you want to cuddle...surrender ALL to God, as a living sacrifice. God doesn't receive progressive sacrifices.

As usual you are evading the point for some reason, Epi, while mischaracterizing the one you are responding to. This is a pattern with you.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Oh my gosh. Okay, I feel like this is my fault. I shouldn’t have joined here. You really need to leave people alone, ma’am. And he needs to not respond to those who harass him because flesh stirs up flesh and then no good comes. I’m leaving. God sat me alone for good reason and I went off on my own instead of obediently remaining in the solitude. It’s my own fault that I’m sad now.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh my gosh. Okay, I feel like this is my fault. I shouldn’t have joined here. You really need to leave people alone, ma’am. And he needs to not respond to those who harass him because flesh stirs up flesh and then no good comes. I’m leaving. God sat me alone for good reason and I went off on my own instead of obediently remaining in the solitude. It’s my own fault that I’m sad now.

Actually your reaction is understandable. I almost liked your post. :) But you have to see that the truth will stir up strife. Those who champion a spiritual Christianity will be accosted by those who have accepted a carnal dogmatic version of the gospel...I have a number of trolls who follow me around the forum to discredit the truth in order to support a lie they have been indoctrinated into in the religious system (Who put the "baby" back into Babylon).

And I will fight against the empty sloganeering of those who have switched allegiance to become enemies of the cross. The flesh wars against the Spirit AND the Spirit wars against the flesh. I wish it wasn't this way...more peaceful and cooperative. But God is holy and His command is to be holy...not just peaceable and easy going. The word says...cursed is he that keeps back his sword from blood. Those who know me see that I defend the truth against those who would lead other souls as far astray as they have gone.

There are 3 options for the believer in regard to holiness

1. Be holy by a full surrender of the flesh to God.

2. Become an enemy of the cross by attacking those who "throw the baby out with the bathwater"...as in....who have no regard for the flesh...meaning that these regard the preciousness of their own lives as something more sacred than the glory of God.

3. Remain humble and God fearing and let the shepherds of Christ chase away the wolves.

Peace :) <><

PS. Your presence is very refreshing for me as I know it is for others too. I don't know if I welcomed you as I ought to have. Welcome. :)