Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Lizbeth]

Fallen man doesn't hold the truth unless we are talking about uncrucified believers. No unbeliever can hold the truth in unrighteousness. But most modern believers are hostile to righteousness...because they have been indoctrinated into thinking they don't need to be righteous to be accepted by God.

Well, maybe think about it some more. Just wanted to point it out. The way I read the scriptures, Jesus both reveals the mercy/righteousness of God as well as His wrath...because both have been given into His hands by God. Wrath is for those who don't believe.........but who should believe, since the truth has been made known to them on some level. Fallen man once knew God.....Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel....God was speaking to mankind even after the fall. And He speaks through creation. People know the truth deep in their heart/spirit but everyone rebels at some point in their young lives, I think in early childhood for most. (As it was for me, since the Lord showed me when I first rebelled, not yet three years old.)

Jhn 3:35-36

“The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”



2Th 1:6-9

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;



Romans 1:16-26

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise (wisdom of man, Tree of Knowledge of G & E), they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

 

[Lizbeth]

Sure

The only thing God can impute to us is what we are producing ourselves. There is no vicarious imputation since God doesn't respect persons. We have to prove ourselves worthy of the calling which we received. Many are called few are chosen. That is a meritocracy arrangement for the kingdom that you don't seem to grasp.

Many run in a race but one wins the prize. We reap as WE sow....not we reap as Jesus sowed. We will each be judged for what WE have done...not what Jesus did.

As we know we disagree on imputed righteousness. I don't feel like arguing about it again right now.

 

[Episkopos]

We could begin the process of the salvation of souls very easily if people would engage honestly with the challenges and correcting I make to all the lies that so many have absorbed from the Babylonian system.

What many here refuse to see or engage with....

How do you think you are actually born again?

Why is your trusting in Jesus' work sufficient for you? For what?

The kingdom of God is a meritocracy : Why does anyone have trouble with that obvious truth?

Why do people accept doctrines that condemn the righteous? (apart from feeling self-justified through religious beliefs)

I have found very few that are honest enough to engage these kinds of questions...preferring to hide, twist and obfuscate the reality they live in. Why do that to your own soul...being condemned from within.

The righteous are as bold as lions, but the wicked flee when no one pursues them. And I'm trying to SAVE souls that seem bent on a hard judgment from the Lord. Are any wise?

 

[ProDeo]

We will each be judged for what WE have done...not what Jesus did.

That's a terrible sentence.

Efez 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Efez 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Efez 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Without Jesus no grace, no salvation, all guilty, races without any prize.

Perhaps you want to rephrase ?

 

[marks]

We;ve been wrongly taught or assumed ourselves that all these things are for after we die, and not for this life.

I keep hearing this but it doesn't reflect reality. Why do you assume I think that way?

Philippians 3:10 KJV
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

This is for today.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

That verse is speaking of fallen man, not believers who are following Christ. God gave them over to their lusts and idolatries. Where it says elsewhere that God's wrath abides on those who do not believe in Him.

notice what paul also wrote as well to the church in thessalonica .
Seeing they REJECTED the LOVE of the TRUTH whereby they COULD have been saved
God will send st rong delusion so they believe a LIE and are damned .
THE WORD of THE TRUTH , THE WORD of GOD , IT IS the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.
And many are now buying into a WELL ITS NOT NECESSARY to have HAD to BLEIEVE on him mindset .
that a LIE sister and it do call GOD a liar . Epi knows not the absolute grave danger he and his inclusivists are now in dear sister .
TO call GOD A LIAR , DOES NOT GLORIFY HIM . IT DO NOT HONOR HIM .
And if one fails to recieve his t estimony that HE gave of the SON , THEY DO CALL GOD A LIAR .
JESUS did all that was necessary for our salvation , and these inclusivists DO NOT WANT TO HONOR HIM
but rather sell a lie . IF one honors NOT the SON , THEN THEY HONOR NOT the FATHER and the wrath
of GOD is what they shall surely face on JUDGMENT day .

 

[amigo de christo]

Fallen man doesn't hold the truth unless we are talking about uncrucified believers. No unbeliever can hold the truth in unrighteousness. But most modern believers are hostile to righteousness...because they have been indoctrinated into thinking they don't need to be righteous to be accepted by God.

ALL who reject the TESTIMONY that GOD gave of the SON , DO HOLD the truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS epi .
THEY call GOD a liar .
Something the inclusvisists know not , seeing it allows UNBELIEF to remain
upon the peoples . And it says clearly to all
GOD IS A LIAR , YOU DONT have to BELIEVE ON JESUS , just pick that cross up and carry it yourself , YOU can DO IT
Your works will save you . YOU LIE to this people epi .
YOU should have PUT JESUS FIRST then reminded all TO bE DOING what HE TAUGHT .
But unbelief is your king and your queen makes a real broad road indeed .

 

[Episkopos]

That's a terrible sentence.

Efez 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Efez 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Efez 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Without Jesus no grace, no salvation, all guilty, races without any prize.

Perhaps you want to rephrase ?

You are responding to this..

We will each be judged for what WE have done...not what Jesus did.

This is an accurate statement based on how judgment is presented in the bible. I know this is NOT what is preached in sunday sermons.

The principle here is that 2 seemingly contradictory statements can be true at the same time....depending on what level is being addressed. Is it about holiness or righteousness? Glory or mercy? The standard for the Bride or the guests? I realize that few know the difference, hence the ease with which people condemn the righteous for no reason.

Grace is from heaven...and God is holy. So then grace replaces the law of Moses for HOLINESS...not for righteousness. The Pharisees of old (as today) condemned the righteous because they (the righteous) were not so interested in obeying the holiness law portion of the law of Moses.

When these are compared God prefers the sinner who is humble to the one who makes sacrifices to holiness, but is not righteous in his judgments. God wants MERCY not sacrifice. This is lost on the modern version of Christianity that exists today...making perfect copies of the Pharisees of old.

Are believers exempt from judgment according to works? No, they will be judged HARDER than the righteous because more has been given to them. So your dismay at the truth of my statement shows you are seeing things wrong. Do you care about that? Isn't the bible more authorative than pulpiteers who make a living fleecing the flock?

We will ALL appear before the Bema seat of Christ to answer for what we did in our mortal bodies. We will receive as we MERIT based on what we DID with what we have been given. There is no pass for having correct beliefs about God.

So then the verses you quoted have to do with holiness and the upward calling into Christ. Grace overcomes sin. So we are talking about a STRICTER judgment that is according to a higher righteousness. And the "saved" part is from SIN and the power of the flesh that produces sin.

So you are not understanding what that entails and as such you try to take away one part of the law to promote another that is not against it.

It amazes me that so many demand a stricter judgment on themselves based on God's HOLY righteousness...whereas they could humble themselves and find mercy on judgment day. They indeed will be judged very hard for their religious stances.

 

[amigo de christo]

That's a terrible sentence.

Efez 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Efez 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Efez 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Without Jesus no grace, no salvation, all guilty, races without any prize.

Perhaps you want to rephrase ?

Pro deo , this be not our first ro deo .
YOU do realize by now what EPI does .
You do realize what inclusvism teaches ..................right .
JESUS said , HE who recieves His testimony has set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE
And john , who had sat under him also said , but he who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON
calls GOD .........................A LIAR .
EPI is saying nothing more than , HEY we can do what JESUS DID , WITHOUT HIM , WITHOUT faith in HIM .
You do realize why the jews were cast out of their own tree right .
THEY sought it not by faith but as it were by the works .............
EPI calls GOD , CHRIST , and yes john and the aposetls A liar and liars .
THE TRUE apostels knew JESUS . AND BELEIVE ME WHEN I SAY
THEY ALL KNEW without a doubt at all , THAT HE who fails TO HONOR the SON gonna be damned
as they HONOR NOT the FATHER . THEY KNEW . THEY truly KNEW my friend .
That as JESUS had once said , FOR WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING , THAT FAITH IN THIS CHRIST was A DIRE
DIRE NECESSITY .
IN fact any who recieves NOT the gospel of TRUTH , HAS NO TRUTH IN THEM .
FOR BY THE SPIRIT THEY HAD CALLED HIM LORD .and Had b y THAT same SPIRIT
been created UN TO the GOOD WORKS GOD had arleady long ago ordained for them to walk in my friend .
As you also reminded us . To call GOD a liar is proof they KNOW HIM NOT and are NOT OF HIM .
FOR BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH they had BELIEVED on CHRIST and called HIM LORD
believing from the heart that GOD rose him from the dead and confessing him by mouth unto salvation .
EPI DONT Preach this . That alone told me long long long ago
That man was in deadly deadly danger . HE has made himself the ENEMY of the gospel
and as such the enemy of GOD . BUT HE THINKS ITS GODS MERCY , HIS GRACE . we got serious problems my friend .

 

[Episkopos]

As we know we disagree on imputed righteousness. I don't feel like arguing about it again right now.

You think a person can impute righteousness to themselves because of a bad reading.... a selfish reading...of the bible.

You disagree with me that only God can impute righteousness to someone. The nerve of some people.

Do you consider that the MANY who are sent away by Jesus also believed in imputing righteousness to themselves, and positional theology and condemning the righteous?

 

[Lizbeth]

I keep hearing this but it doesn't reflect reality. Why do you assume I think that way?

Philippians 3:10 KJV
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

This is for today.

Much love!

I was reflecting the approach taken by most of the church.......that the wedding and bridal imagery and crossing the Jordan is for sometime future or after death, not something to be attained in this life. Maybe on one level it is after we die, but on another level we need to be seeking to enter in this life. We want to be ready for the Bridegroom whether He comes for us when we die or whether we are still here when He comes in an historical sense....to have boldness and not be ashamed at His coming.

 

[Episkopos]

Pro deo , this be not our first ro deo .
YOU do realize by now what EPI does .
You do realize what inclusvism teaches ..................right .
JESUS said , HE who recieves His testimony has set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE
And john , who had sat under him also said , but he who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON
calls GOD .........................A LIAR .
EPI is saying nothing more than , HEY we can do what JESUS DID , WITHOUT HIM , WITHOUT faith in HIM .
You do realize why the jews were cast out of their own tree right .
THEY sought it not by faith but as it were by the works .............
EPI calls GOD , CHRIST , and yes john and the aposetls A liar and liars .
THE TRUE apostels knew JESUS . AND BELEIVE ME WHEN I SAY
THEY ALL KNEW without a doubt at all , THAT HE who fails TO HONOR the SON gonna be damned
as they HONOR NOT the FATHER . THEY KNEW . THEY truly KNEW my friend .
That as JESUS had once said , FOR WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING , THAT FAITH IN THIS CHRIST was A DIRE
DIRE NECESSITY .
IN fact any who recieves NOT the gospel of TRUTH , HAS NO TRUTH IN THEM .
FOR BY THE SPIRIT THEY HAD CALLED HIM LORD .and Had b y THAT same SPIRIT
been created UN TO the GOOD WORKS GOD had arleady long ago ordained for them to walk in my friend .
As you also reminded us . To call GOD a liar is proof they KNOW HIM NOT and are NOT OF HIM .
FOR BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH they had BELIEVED on CHRIST and called HIM LORD
believing from the heart that GOD rose him from the dead and confessing him by mouth unto salvation .
EPI DONT Preach this . That alone told me long long long ago
That man was in deadly deadly danger . HE has made himself the ENEMY of the gospel
and as such the enemy of GOD . BUT HE THINKS ITS GODS MERCY , HIS GRACE . we got serious problems my friend .

Self-serving religious twaddle. Your constant false accusations don't make the liar. I am a mirror here on this forum. People read themselves into me all the time. Repent of your self-righteous accusations....and find mercy with God.

 

[marks]

I was reflecting the approach taken by most of the church.......that the wedding and bridal imagery and crossing the Jordan is for sometime future or after death, not something to be attained in this life. Maybe on one level it is after we die, but on another level we need to be seeking to enter in this life. We want to be ready for the Bridegroom whether He comes for us when we die or whether we are still here when He comes in an historical sense....to have boldness and not be ashamed at His coming.

For me, Christianity is about being reconciled to God so I can have communion with Him both now and in the ages to come. I don't see that we are waiting for some second baptism or such, rather that we have access now in faith.

He will know me then because He knows me now.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

You think a person can impute righteousness to themselves because of a bad reading.... a selfish reading...of the bible.

You disagree with me that only God can impute righteousness to someone. The nerve of some people.

Do you consider that the MANY who are sent away by Jesus also believed in imputing righteousness to themselves, and positional theology and condemning the righteous?

Even the Romans 1 verse says that His righteousness (mercy) is revealed from faith to faith and that the just shall live by faith (in the Son). That includes both levels of faith, if you interpret "from faith to faith" that way.

 

[Episkopos]

Even the Romans 1 says that His righteousness (mercy) is revealed from faith to faith and that the just shall live by faith (in the Son). That includes both levels of faith, if you interpret "from faith to faith" that way.

That's right. We go from a human faith to a divine faith...the faith OF Christ. But although the purpose of God is mercy, people take the elevation to mean that they are accepted with God is their present state...uncrucified and unweaned from the flesh. That's why grace is deceitful, and why the now spoiled children (drunk on grace) refuse to learn righteousness.

 

[Lizbeth]

For me, Christianity is about being reconciled to God so I can have communion with Him both now and in the ages to come. I don't see that we are waiting for some second baptism or such, rather that we have access now in faith.

He will know me then because He knows me now.

Much love!

Yes but we need to keep growing. We have access but are we yet fully accessing what we have access to? How many do we see walking in the full stature of Christ? If we're not walking in the full stature of Christ then let's keep reaching for what lies ahead, instead of limiting God and relegating it to the afterlife. (not assuming you are personally, but most are) I think most see the full stature of Christ as a goal in theory, but an unattainable one, when we should view it as an attainable goal in this life.

 

[marks]

Yes but we need to keep growing.

Well of course we do!

:-)

but most are

I don't see that in my circles. Some people just need a better church, I think.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

That's right. We go from a human faith to a divine faith...the faith OF Christ. But although the purpose of God is mercy, people take the elevation to mean that they are accepted with God is their present state...uncrucified and unweaned from the flesh. That's why grace is deceitful, and why the now spoiled children (drunk on grace) refuse to learn righteousness.

We did receive divine faith in the beginning when we came to Christ, Epi. It was not of our own, but a miracle of God's grace and mercy. I'm talking about genuine life changing, saving faith.....not just nominal belief like most Catholics have (and increasing numbers in the protestant realm now too sadly)......a life changing encounter with the Living God. But it was only a measure of divine faith, an earnest on the full amount promised/pledged. We need to grow and increase in it....like the parable of the talents. We like Jesus are learning obedience (righteousness) by the things we suffer, being chastised as sons. Grace is deceitful if we use it as a license or excuse to abuse it.

 

[Lizbeth]

H

Well of course we do!

:-)


I don't see that in my circles. Some people just need a better church, I think.

Much love!

I will just have to take your word for it, not knowing your church at all brother. But I hope some arent' thinking they have reached the full stature of Christ when they haven't. We need to strike a good balance between being encouraged in our walk when we truly need it, and facing the reality of where we actually are.

 

[marks]

H

I will just have to take your word for it, not knowing your church at all brother. But I hope some arent' thinking they have reached the full stature of Christ when they haven't. We need to strike a good balance between being encouraged in our walk when we truly need it, and facing the reality of where we actually are.

I think some of the best guidance is found here:

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Much love!