Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[amigo de christo]

Self-serving religious twaddle. Your constant false accusations don't make the liar. I am a mirror here on this forum. People read themselves into me all the time. Repent of your self-righteous accusations....and find mercy with God.

lets exam the word self righteous . SELF righteous .
SELF , and not belief in JESUS , righteousness .
Staring to make sense as to who is the self righteous one and who simply PREACHES that absolute dire need
FOR TO BELEIVE ON JESUS . cause without HIM , I CAN DO NOTHING .
but ol epi says , HEY lets put that ol horse in the cart and let SELF do the work . Oopsy epi .
Oh you are correct about self righteous as being deadly and dangerous .
Yet it aint me pu tting the horse into the cart epi . IT BE YOU .

 

[amigo de christo]

H

I will just have to take your word for it, not knowing your church at all brother. But I hope some arent' thinking they have reached the full stature of Christ when they haven't. We need to strike a good balance between being encouraged in our walk when we truly need it, and facing the reality of where we actually are.

sister , always remember those who put their hope into men are never gonna see clearly .
For he whose hope be in men is cursed .
But he whose hope be in GOD , thus would be IN HIS CHRIST , is blessed .
You probably might be wondering why i told you something you have long known .
SO allow me to ask a request of you . ready . ASK mark about president trump please .
THEN you might start understanding why we got the mess we got sister .
Many have all sorts of things they do say and they do teach and to be honest much of it makes about zero sense .
But he or she whose hopes be in MEN , whether left , whether right , popes and etc , They are in deadly dire danger .
So go ahead ask the man about his political views . REMEM BER i often watch this people , its why i see as i see .

 

[amigo de christo]

Well of course we do!

:-)


I don't see that in my circles. Some people just need a better church, I think.

Much love!

and do those circles include POLITICS and TRUMP . many whether right or left
cannot truly see just how wicked almost all of christendom has become .
OH they can see it on the other side but never on their side .
For instance THAT ENTIRE NAR REALM is just as wicked and perverse as is the Unholy vatican .
And both love the same lie .
That is perhaps why YOU DONT SEE IT IN YOUR CIRCLES my friend .
Many often cannot see it in their circle . For their hope was in men .
I think today is a real good day for us all to do us an exodus OUTTA anything remotely ecumeincal and poltiical
and a real fast ENTRODUS back into bibles . You would marvel at how quickly and fast things can become clearer
and ever so clearer in time .

 

[ProDeo]

Pro deo , this be not our first ro deo .

EPI is saying nothing more than , HEY we can do what JESUS DID , WITHOUT HIM , WITHOUT faith in HIM .

That would be a serious mistake, forgotten what we are, a fallen creation, fallen creatures from birth on in need for Christ.

You do realize why the jews were cast out of their own tree right .
THEY sought it not by faith but as it were by the works .............

Yep, pushing Jesus to the background, works trumping over Jesus, false of course.

EPI calls GOD , CHRIST , and yes john and the aposetls A liar and liars .
THE TRUE apostels knew JESUS . AND BELEIVE ME WHEN I SAY
THEY ALL KNEW without a doubt at all , THAT HE who fails TO HONOR the SON gonna be damned
as they HONOR NOT the FATHER . THEY KNEW . THEY truly KNEW my friend .
That as JESUS had once said , FOR WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING , THAT FAITH IN THIS CHRIST was A DIRE
DIRE NECESSITY .
IN fact any who recieves NOT the gospel of TRUTH , HAS NO TRUTH IN THEM .
FOR BY THE SPIRIT THEY HAD CALLED HIM LORD .and Had b y THAT same SPIRIT
been created UN TO the GOOD WORKS GOD had arleady long ago ordained for them to walk in my friend .
As you also reminded us . To call GOD a liar is proof they KNOW HIM NOT and are NOT OF HIM .
FOR BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH they had BELIEVED on CHRIST and called HIM LORD
believing from the heart that GOD rose him from the dead and confessing him by mouth unto salvation .
EPI DONT Preach this . That alone told me long long long ago
That man was in deadly deadly danger . HE has made himself the ENEMY of the gospel
and as such the enemy of GOD . BUT HE THINKS ITS GODS MERCY , HIS GRACE . we got serious problems my friend .

 

[bdavidc]

Those reading this thread should stop looking at charts, spiritual levels, claimed revelations, and human systems long enough to read the passages being quoted in their actual context.

Scripture does not teach two ways of justification, two saving levels of righteousness, or a lower salvation for people who are righteous without faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said plainly:

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18).

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

That leaves no lower category of people who inherit life through human righteousness while remaining without Christ. A person either has the Son and has life, or does not have the Son and does not have life.

Cornelius was devout, feared God, prayed, and gave alms. Yet the angel told him to send for Peter, “who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” (Acts 11:14). Cornelius’s good works did not place him in a lower saving justification. He still needed to hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul directly contradicts the claim that God imputes only what people produce themselves:

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

Notice whom God justifies. Not people who have produced enough human righteousness, but “the ungodly” who believe. Paul then speaks of “the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works” (Romans 4:6).

Yes, everyone will be judged according to his works. That does not mean works are the basis of justification. Works reveal what a person is and whether his profession of faith was genuine. Salvation itself remains “by grace…through faith,” “not of works,” while good works are what God creates believers to walk in afterward (Ephesians 2:8–10).

Grace is not deceitful. Scripture says:

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly” (Titus 2:11–12).

Biblical grace does not excuse sin. It saves sinners and teaches those who are saved to live godly lives.

Ezekiel’s river, the gates in the Psalms, the crossing of Jordan, repeated Hebrew words, “verily, verily,” hot and cold water, and the parable of the talents cannot be rearranged into a chart that overrules the plain teaching of John, Romans, Acts, Ephesians, and the rest of Scripture. An interpretation is not established merely because someone can attach many unrelated verses to it.

Do not take my word for it, and do not take the thread starter’s word for it. Read every passage in its full context. Be like the Bereans, who “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11).

The Word of God is the authority. No chart, claimed spiritual experience, private revelation, or teacher has the right to create another way of life and righteousness apart from faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Marvelloustime]

lets exam the word self righteous . SELF righteous .
SELF , and not belief in JESUS , righteousness .
Staring to make sense as to who is the self righteous one and who simply PREACHES that absolute dire need
FOR TO BELEIVE ON JESUS . cause without HIM , I CAN DO NOTHING .
but ol epi says , HEY lets put that ol horse in the cart and let SELF do the work . Oopsy epi .
Oh you are correct about self righteous as being deadly and dangerous .
Yet it aint me pu tting the horse into the cart epi . IT BE YOU .

@amigo de christo

 

[ProDeo]

You are responding to this..

We will each be judged for what WE have done...not what Jesus did.

This is an accurate statement based on how judgment is presented in the bible. I know this is NOT what is preached in sunday sermons.

They better not indeed

It amazes me that so many demand a stricter judgment on themselves based on God's HOLY righteousness...whereas they could humble themselves and find mercy on judgment day. They indeed will be judged very hard for their religious stances.

What amazes me :

Matt 13:8 - Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

You won't accept thirtyfold for yourself, you want hundredfold, which is fine, yet you project your hundredfold on others and condemn them if they don't. Yet Jesus Himself is okay with thirtyfold. No condemnation from Jesus, but you are full of it.

 

[Episkopos]

Those reading this thread should stop looking at charts, spiritual levels, claimed revelations, and human systems long enough to read the passages being quoted in their actual context.

Exactly. I ask people to consider what I write with all seriousness because their eternal destiny is in play.

Scripture does not teach two ways of justification, two saving levels of righteousness, or a lower salvation for people who are righteous without faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said plainly:

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18).

Jesus spoke this to Nicodemus as God's people...not the world at large. Jesus didn't come to destroy all goodness and mercy in order to invent a religion based on partisan religious politics. God loves all forms of righteousness because He IS righteous. Not so the pretenders who claim justification based on their beliefs...while condemning the righteous who Jesus died for.

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

Eternal life and victory over sin in this life.

That leaves no lower category of people who inherit life through human righteousness while remaining without Christ. A person either has the Son and has life, or does not have the Son and does not have life.

You are confusing eternal life now with its victory over sin in holiness...with inheriting life in the next age. The meek will inherit the earth. The righteous are scarcely saved.

Cornelius was devout, feared God, prayed, and gave alms. Yet the angel told him to send for Peter, “who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” (Acts 11:14). Cornelius’s good works did not place him in a lower saving justification. He still needed to hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The bible says that Cornelius was righteous BEFORE meeting Christ. And he is not alone....read without the blinders on.

Paul directly contradicts the claim that God imputes only what people produce themselves:

God only imputes according to what WE DO. That's what imputation does. Otherwise the person judging is unrighteous. Righteousness doesn't respect persons....and neither does God. People are unrighteous and they want credit where none is due.

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

No works of the law are required to receive eternal life as a gift from God. And justifying the ungodly is exactly what you are against. You don't need holiness in the lower righteousness...just humility. Just the fear of the Lord.

I have stated this many times the lower righteousness is imputed even to the ungodly (non-religious)

Notice whom God justifies. Not people who have produced enough human righteousness, but “the ungodly” who believe. Paul then speaks of “the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works” (Romans 4:6).

Without works of the law. Judaism. The Mosaic law had BOTH elements to it...holiness and righteousness. Jesus replaces the HOLINESS part of the law by giving us His life that we might be partakers of His holiness. Many ministers of the gospel will be rejected because they condemned the righteous just like the Pharisees did before them. Why would God condemn the Pharisees under the law and then justify the Pharisees of today that are seeking to be justified by faith?

Yes, everyone will be judged according to his works. That does not mean works are the basis of justification.

That is the MAIN concern of judgment...justification based on works. We will be justified by our works and our words. What we DID.

Works reveal what a person is and whether his profession of faith was genuine. Salvation itself remains “by grace…through faith,” “not of works,” while good works are what God creates believers to walk in afterward (Ephesians 2:8–10).

Holy works come from a holy power of life. If you want to do eternal works, you need the power of an eternal life. But we can do good works...not perfect... on the basis of our wills. And we are to ADD the lower righteousness obedience to the higher calling into Christ...or we will forfeit our calling based on a lack of righteousness.

Grace is not deceitful. Scripture says:

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly” (Titus 2:11–12).

Sure but the outer man gets puffed up along with the intended target, the inner man.

Grace is deceitful and beauty is vain...but one who practices the lower righteousness...she shall be praised. What is the lower righteousness...the fear of the Lord and humility.

And ....show grace to the wicked and they will NOT learn righteousness.

Biblical grace does not excuse sin. It saves sinners and teaches those who are saved to live godly lives.

That is a lower obedience to IMPROVE our behaviour. Based on the law of God written on our hearts.

Ezekiel’s river, the gates in the Psalms, the crossing of Jordan, repeated Hebrew words, “verily, verily,” hot and cold water, and the parable of the talents cannot be rearranged into a chart that overrules the plain teaching of John, Romans, Acts, Ephesians, and the rest of Scripture. An interpretation is not established merely because someone can attach many unrelated verses to it.

You are not seeing how the puzzle (to you) fits together...and are looking for a fool's paradise of grace for nothing without any responsibility. To whom much is given MORE is required. More believers get rejected for that...equal to the ones who perished in the wilderness after coming out from Egypt. That's why I warn people about learning righteousness and adding obedience to their faith.

Do not take my word for it, and do not take the thread starter’s word for it. Read every passage in its full context. Be like the Bereans, who “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11).

The Word of God is the authority. No chart, claimed spiritual experience, private revelation, or teacher has the right to create another way of life and righteousness apart from faith in Jesus Christ.

Faith and faithfulness are the same word in Hebrew and Greek. People no longer have any faith...they have beliefs about a God they don't know. They have theologies, theories, schemes, ideologies, that all support the unbroken and uncrucified. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

When the Son of Man returns will He find faith on the earth? Sure A LOT of beliefs and theories...but no actual faith. So then all the promises are forfeit based on a very shallow reading of the bible. They rail without fear or love of the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

They better not indeed

We wouldn't want the devil to take away their credentials...

What amazes me :

Matt 13:8 - Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

You won't accept thirtyfold for yourself, you want hundredfold, which is fine, yet you project your hundredfold on others and condemn them if they don't. Yet Jesus Himself is okay with thirtyfold. No condemnation from Jesus, but you are full of it.

What the bible teaches is that to have an eternal fruit (in whatever amount) requires a miraculous walk in eternal life. We have to BUY the eternal materials by giving our life fully to God. That sacrifice has to be accepted by God...in the form of grace from heaven to walk as Jesus walked. The condemnation comes from God on those who are lawless and spread lies about Him. I'm here to bring correction and hopefully save some souls in the process.

 

[bdavidc]

Exactly. I ask people to consider what I write with all seriousness because their eternal destiny is in play.


Jesus spoke this to Nicodemus as God's people...not the world at large. Jesus didn't come to destroy all goodness and mercy in order to invent a religion based on partisan religious politics. God loves all forms of righteousness because He IS righteous. Not so the pretenders who claim justification based on their beliefs...while condemning the righteous who Jesus died for.


Eternal life and victory over sin in this life.


You are confusing eternal life now with its victory over sin in holiness...with inheriting life in the next age. The meek will inherit the earth. The righteous are scarcely saved.


The bible says that Cornelius was righteous BEFORE meeting Christ. And he is not alone....read without the blinders on.


God only imputes according to what WE DO. That's what imputation does. Otherwise the person judging is unrighteous. Righteousness doesn't respect persons....and neither does God. People are unrighteous and they want credit where none is due.


No works of the law are required to receive eternal life as a gift from God. And justifying the ungodly is exactly what you are against. You don't need holiness in the lower righteousness...just humility. Just the fear of the Lord.

I have stated this many times the lower righteousness is imputed even to the ungodly (non-religious)


Without works of the law. Judaism. The Mosaic law had BOTH elements to it...holiness and righteousness. Jesus replaces the HOLINESS part of the law by giving us His life that we might be partakers of His holiness. Many ministers of the gospel will be rejected because they condemned the righteous just like the Pharisees did before them. Why would God condemn the Pharisees under the law and then justify the Pharisees of today that are seeking to be justified by faith?


That is the MAIN concern of judgment...justification based on works. We will be justified by our works and our words. What we DID.


Holy works come from a holy power of life. If you want to do eternal works, you need the power of an eternal life. But we can do good works...not perfect... on the basis of our wills. And we are to ADD the lower righteousness obedience to the higher calling into Christ...or we will forfeit our calling based on a lack of righteousness.


Sure but the outer man gets puffed up along with the intended target, the inner man.

Grace is deceitful and beauty is vain...but one who practices the lower righteousness...she shall be praised. What is the lower righteousness...the fear of the Lord and humility.

And ....show grace to the wicked and they will NOT learn righteousness.


That is a lower obedience to IMPROVE our behaviour. Based on the law of God written on our hearts.


You are not seeing how the puzzle (to you) fits together...and are looking for a fool's paradise of grace for nothing without any responsibility. To whom much is given MORE is required. More believers get rejected for that...equal to the ones who perished in the wilderness after coming out from Egypt. That's why I warn people about learning righteousness and adding obedience to their faith.

Faith and faithfulness are the same word in Hebrew and Greek. People no longer have any faith...they have beliefs about a God they don't know. They have theologies, theories, schemes, ideologies, that all support the unbroken and uncrucified. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

When the Son of Man returns will He find faith on the earth? Sure A LOT of beliefs and theories...but no actual faith. So then all the promises are forfeit based on a very shallow reading of the bible. They rail without fear or love of the truth.

You have repeated your two-level system, but you still have not shown where Scripture actually teaches a lower salvation for unbelievers who inherit life without Christ.

John 3 is not limited to Nicodemus or ethnic Israel. The passage says, “God so loved the world,” that the Son came “that the world through him might be saved,” and that “he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:16–18). The text itself applies the warning to the world and makes believing in the Son the dividing line.

First John 5:11–12 is equally plain: “God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” You keep adding a second kind of saving life for those who do not have the Son, but John leaves no such category.

Cornelius was called devout and God-fearing, but Acts 11:14 says Peter would tell him “words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.” Peter preached that remission of sins comes through believing in Christ: “through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43). Cornelius’s conduct showed that God was drawing him and that the gospel was for Gentiles. It did not prove that he already possessed a lower salvation apart from Christ.

Romans 4 is also not restricted to ceremonial works of the Mosaic law. Paul deliberately uses Abraham, who lived before Moses, and David. His conclusion is that God justifies “the ungodly” who believe and imputes righteousness “without works” (Romans 4:5–6). You have reversed Paul’s argument by saying God imputes righteousness only according to what people do.

Your statement that “grace is deceitful” is not Scripture. Proverbs 31:30 says, “Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain.” It does not say the saving grace of God is deceitful. Titus 2:11–12 says God’s grace brings salvation and teaches believers to deny ungodliness. Isaiah 26:10 says that showing favor to a wicked person does not necessarily cause him to learn righteousness. It is not dividing salvation into upper and lower grace.

You also say that judgment proves justification is based on works. Scripture says works will be judged because they reveal what a person truly is, but Paul expressly denies that works are the ground of justification: “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28). Genuine faith produces obedience, but the fruit must not be turned into the root.

Faith and faithfulness may be expressed by related words, but a word’s meaning is determined by its context. We are not free to replace “believe” with “perform sufficient righteous works” whenever the text contradicts our system.

You have built a chart that requires clear passages to be redefined, while unrelated passages are joined together to support two levels of righteousness and salvation. I will leave the readers with the plain words of Scripture:

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life” (John 3:36).

That is not a shallow reading. That is what the verse says. I have stated my position and provided the controlling passages. I will not continue repeating the same exchange unless something genuinely new from Scripture is raised.

 

[Lizbeth]

I think some of the best guidance is found here:

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Much love!

Indeed. But why are so few, hardly any it seems, growing up into Him?

 

[Episkopos]

You have repeated your two-level system, but you still have not shown where Scripture actually teaches a lower salvation for unbelievers who inherit life without Christ.

David, you are seeing this backward. The whole bible is about justification based on righteousness. Just read a few chapters in Proverbs (10 and 11). The innovation comes with the gospel and Jesus providing us with "a new and living way" that is based on BOTH righteousness AND holiness. So then the New Covenant is much greater because it gives us the power of an eternal kind of life to fulfill the law of God in both dimensions.

John 3 is not limited to Nicodemus or ethnic Israel. The passage says, “God so loved the world,” that the Son came “that the world through him might be saved,” and that “he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:16–18). The text itself applies the warning to the world and makes believing in the Son the dividing line.

You are missing the nuance of believing Jesus...what He said...not just believing in Him. And Jesus indeed came to save the world...not just believers (not universal either). And in John 3:16....the preposition is INTO Christ. (eis). We HAVE eternal life when we enter INTO Christ to be where He is and walk as He walked...without sin...empowered by the Spirit to be holy as God is holy. THAT is the gospel.

So you will see that you will deny BOTH holiness...the higher walk....and righteousness, the lower walk. I ask you....where does that leave you when the music stops? No place....either in the holy city or the nations of them that are saved.

First John 5:11–12 is equally plain: “God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” You keep adding a second kind of saving life for those who do not have the Son, but John leaves no such category.

John is spiritual ...as I am....speaking of heavenly power called grace to walk as Jesus walked. Most don't even know of it's existence. It is the best kept secret in the world because the devil stands at the door of churches and devours those who could know the truth. Prophets are not welcome in Babylon.

Cornelius was called devout and God-fearing, but Acts 11:14 says Peter would tell him “words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.” Peter preached that remission of sins comes through believing in Christ: “through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43). Cornelius’s conduct showed that God was drawing him and that the gospel was for Gentiles. It did not prove that he already possessed a lower salvation apart from Christ.

Here "remission" (aphesis) is FREEDOM from sin. and believing is INTO once again. Luke is describing someone who was elevated into the higher walk of the Spirit. You are looking at things far too shallowly. The cross is meant to kill the sin nature and the resurrection power is meant to make us holy.

Romans 4 is also not restricted to ceremonial works of the Mosaic law. Paul deliberately uses Abraham, who lived before Moses, and David. His conclusion is that God justifies “the ungodly” who believe and imputes righteousness “without works” (Romans 4:5–6). You have reversed Paul’s argument by saying God imputes righteousness only according to what people do.

Your statement that “grace is deceitful” is not Scripture. Proverbs 31:30 says, “Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain.”

The word for favour is Chen...meaning grace. Check out other translations. And what about people being shown grace and NOT learning righteousness.

It does not say the saving grace of God is deceitful. Titus 2:11–12 says God’s grace brings salvation and teaches believers to deny ungodliness. Isaiah 26:10 says that showing favor to a wicked person does not necessarily cause him to learn righteousness. It is not dividing salvation into upper and lower grace.

What? You don't yet understand what makes up a man. We are BOTH an inner man created by God...and we have a carnal outer man covering husk that is meant to survive in this world...but is now to be offered up as a living sacrifice to God.

You also say that judgment proves justification is based on works. Scripture says works will be judged because they reveal what a person truly is, but Paul expressly denies that works are the ground of justification: “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28). Genuine faith produces obedience, but the fruit must not be turned into the root.

Find a verse that says we will be judged by our beliefs and the accuracy thereof. You are always turning the truth upside down...making the innovation common.

Faith and faithfulness may be expressed by related words, but a word’s meaning is determined by its context. We are not free to replace “believe” with “perform sufficient righteous works” whenever the text contradicts our system.

The ONLY way to enter God's kingdom is by faith. If God sees faith He translates that person to be in a heavenly place to walk in Christ....in the power of His resurrection. I know you don't understand that. But that's what faith is for. To PLEASE God. It is the Father's good PLEASURE to give us the kingdom.

You have built a chart that requires clear passages to be redefined, while unrelated passages are joined together to support two levels of righteousness and salvation. I will leave the readers with the plain words of Scripture:

You looked at the chart. You will have to seek God and get to know the Bible a LOT more before you can disprove even the smallest detail.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life” (John 3:36).

He who believes INTO the Son has an everlasting kind of life...instantly....walking in the power from above. And whoever doesn't believe the words of Jesus is condemned. This is directed at those who go AGAINST righteousness. The righteous do what is right without being told it is right before God. This is about drinking His blood....believing INTO Jesus...and eating His flesh...obeying the words of Jesus. 2 levels of obedience, 2 tablets of commandments...2 testaments, 2 resurrections, 2 judgments...,and a double edged sword. If you can't see the duality of the bible you are a mere novice.

That is not a shallow reading. That is what the verse says. I have stated my position and provided the controlling passages. I will not continue repeating the same exchange unless something genuinely new from Scripture is raised.

It is a very shallow reading based on a lack of an actual encounter and translation by the living God. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.

 

[Lizbeth]

and do those circles include POLITICS and TRUMP . many whether right or left
cannot truly see just how wicked almost all of christendom has become .
OH they can see it on the other side but never on their side .
For instance THAT ENTIRE NAR REALM is just as wicked and perverse as is the Unholy vatican .
And both love the same lie .
That is perhaps why YOU DONT SEE IT IN YOUR CIRCLES my friend .
Many often cannot see it in their circle . For their hope was in men .
I think today is a real good day for us all to do us an exodus OUTTA anything remotely ecumeincal and poltiical
and a real fast ENTRODUS back into bibles . You would marvel at how quickly and fast things can become clearer
and ever so clearer in time .

Amen. "Come out of her my people, lest you....." It wasn't until I left off listening to churches and men, shutting out all those voices in order to hear the Shepherd's voice that the Lord began in His word to clear things up and show me clearly, the true gospel. Kind of like a clear pane of glass that has picked up so much lint and fluff and debris that got stuck to it....men's teachings and doctrines. We need to clean that glass off with the pure washing of the water of the word and nothing but the word, reading it with fresh eyes, not through skewed lenses of teachings. Then we can begin discerning much better what is true and what is false.

 

[Lizbeth]

Cornelius was called devout and God-fearing, but Acts 11:14 says Peter would tell him “words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.” Peter preached that remission of sins comes through believing in Christ: “through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43). Cornelius’s conduct showed that God was drawing him and that the gospel was for Gentiles. It did not prove that he already possessed a lower salvation apart from Christ.

Amen....clearly Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter went and preached the gospel and name of Christ to him. I hope Epi will reconsider this.

 

[Lizbeth]

sister , always remember those who put their hope into men are never gonna see clearly .
For he whose hope be in men is cursed .
But he whose hope be in GOD , thus would be IN HIS CHRIST , is blessed .
You probably might be wondering why i told you something you have long known .
SO allow me to ask a request of you . ready . ASK mark about president trump please .
THEN you might start understanding why we got the mess we got sister .
Many have all sorts of things they do say and they do teach and to be honest much of it makes about zero sense .
But he or she whose hopes be in MEN , whether left , whether right , popes and etc , They are in deadly dire danger .
So go ahead ask the man about his political views . REMEM BER i often watch this people , its why i see as i see .

Abraham Accords is the result of men of the world trying to solve problems of the world. ( Some of them might be well meaning, some might not, I dont know.) Either way we need to leave them to it, because it has ought to do with the body of Christ. We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. And I don't know how many realize that those Accords leave the door wide open to persecute Christians.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen....clearly Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter went and preached the gospel and name of Christ to him. I hope Epi will reconsider this.

The righteous only inherit life in the next age. Only those called into holiness and sinless perfection are saved now....from sin and its power.

Why won't people look beyond very surface statements?

 

[marks]

Indeed. But why are so few, hardly any it seems, growing up into Him?

I guess it just depends on where you are, and where you are looking. I'm in a wonderful Bible teaching church, very functional, to say the least, with many many mature believers, as well as the brand new ones. I have to remember . . . not everyone has this.

Much love!

 

[IndianaRob]

Indeed. But why are so few, hardly any it seems, growing up into Him?

I know exactly why so few have grown up in Him but the answer won’t go over well with anybody on this forum.

 

[Episkopos]

I think a lot of people need to start over from the beginning, having gone down the wrong track for so long, they have forgotten what holiness ...even a tiny sample of it....really is. Having begun in the Spirit but now trying to be made perfect progressively by the carnal mind.

 

[bdavidc]

David, you are seeing this backward. The whole bible is about justification based on righteousness. Just read a few chapters in Proverbs (10 and 11). The innovation comes with the gospel and Jesus providing us with "a new and living way" that is based on BOTH righteousness AND holiness. So then the New Covenant is much greater because it gives us the power of an eternal kind of life to fulfill the law of God in both dimensions.


You are missing the nuance of believing Jesus...what He said...not just believing in Him. And Jesus indeed came to save the world...not just believers (not universal either). And in John 3:16....the preposition is INTO Christ. (eis). We HAVE eternal life when we enter INTO Christ to be where He is and walk as He walked...without sin...empowered by the Spirit to be holy as God is holy. THAT is the gospel.

So you will see that you will deny BOTH holiness...the higher walk....and righteousness, the lower walk. I ask you....where does that leave you when the music stops? No place....either in the holy city or the nations of them that are saved.


John is spiritual ...as I am....speaking of heavenly power called grace to walk as Jesus walked. Most don't even know of it's existence. It is the best kept secret in the world because the devil stands at the door of churches and devours those who could know the truth. Prophets are not welcome in Babylon.


Here "remission" (aphesis) is FREEDOM from sin. and believing is INTO once again. Luke is describing someone who was elevated into the higher walk of the Spirit. You are looking at things far too shallowly. The cross is meant to kill the sin nature and the resurrection power is meant to make us holy.


The word for favour is Chen...meaning grace. Check out other translations. And what about people being shown grace and NOT learning righteousness.


What? You don't yet understand what makes up a man. We are BOTH an inner man created by God...and we have a carnal outer man covering husk that is meant to survive in this world...but is now to be offered up as a living sacrifice to God.


Find a verse that says we will be judged by our beliefs and the accuracy thereof. You are always turning the truth upside down...making the innovation common.


The ONLY way to enter God's kingdom is by faith. If God sees faith He translates that person to be in a heavenly place to walk in Christ....in the power of His resurrection. I know you don't understand that. But that's what faith is for. To PLEASE God. It is the Father's good PLEASURE to give us the kingdom.


You looked at the chart. You will have to seek God and get to know the Bible a LOT more before you can disprove even the smallest detail.


He who believes INTO the Son has an everlasting kind of life...instantly....walking in the power from above. And whoever doesn't believe the words of Jesus is condemned. This is directed at those who go AGAINST righteousness. The righteous do what is right without being told it is right before God. This is about drinking His blood....believing INTO Jesus...and eating His flesh...obeying the words of Jesus. 2 levels of obedience, 2 tablets of commandments...2 testaments, 2 resurrections, 2 judgments...,and a double edged sword. If you can't see the duality of the bible you are a mere novice.

It is a very shallow reading based on a lack of an actual encounter and translation by the living God. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.

You have again repeated your system without showing where Scripture actually teaches salvation for people who do not have the Son. You have also shifted from explaining the text to claiming that I lack your spiritual experience. An alleged encounter with God does not establish doctrine. Every spiritual claim must be tested by the written Word.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

Your appeal to “the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life” does not mean that the plain meaning of Scripture may be rejected in favor of private spiritual insight. In 2 Corinthians 3, Paul is contrasting the old covenant ministry written on stone, which condemned sinners, with the life-giving ministry of the Spirit under the new covenant. He is not contrasting careful interpretation of Scripture with personal revelation.

You asked for a verse showing that people are judged concerning belief. Jesus gave one directly:

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18).

Jesus also said:

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).

Second Thessalonians 2:12 says that people are condemned “who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” Therefore, Scripture plainly connects condemnation with unbelief and rejection of Christ’s truth.

Judgment according to works does not mean justification is earned by works. Works reveal the person’s true condition, but Scripture explicitly states the ground upon which the ungodly are justified:

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

You cannot overturn that statement by appealing to Proverbs. Proverbs teaches the character and fruit of righteousness. It does not teach that unbelievers inherit a lower form of eternal salvation apart from Christ.

Your handling of the Greek does not establish your position either. The preposition eis does not automatically mean that believing “into” Christ refers to entering a sinless higher walk. Its meaning is governed by the complete expression and context. John repeatedly describes believing in Christ as the means of receiving life:

“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name” (John 20:31).

Likewise, aphesis in Acts 10:43 does not mean Cornelius was merely elevated into a higher spiritual experience. Peter said:

“Through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

The same word is used when Jesus commanded that “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations” (Luke 24:47). Cornelius needed forgiveness and salvation through Christ, not promotion from a lower salvation into a higher one.

You also continue asserting that righteous unbelievers possess life apart from Christ, but John explicitly excludes that category:

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

It does not say that the person without the Son has a lower life, an earthly salvation, or a place among saved nations. It says he “hath not life.”

Calling your interpretation spiritual does not make it biblical. Calling those who disagree novices does not answer the passages. Your chart, your claimed encounter, and your assertions of hidden spiritual knowledge must all remain subject to Scripture.

I have addressed your claims from the text repeatedly. I will not continue an exchange in which clear passages are redefined and disagreement is dismissed as spiritual inferiority. The readers can compare both positions with Scripture.