Romans 14:19-21 and Offending others

[lforrest]

I'm trying to determine what is so wrong with offending others. Now this doesn't apply to the gospel or scriptures, which will offend many but must still be shared. I refer to our opinions, that are trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Some people are so easily offended I think they could stand to take a jab or two to their pride. Yet as Christians we should try not to offend others, thus sparing their pride. Some are so easily offended by what I would consider stupid little things. I would rather not pander to these if I don't have to. You could say I'm offended when others are offended. So when is it permissible to offend others?

Romans 14:19-21
[SIZE=.75em]"19 [/SIZE]Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[SIZE=.75em]20 [/SIZE]For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
[SIZE=.75em]21 [/SIZE]It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

Romans 14:1
"14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."

 

[zhavoney]

Saint James summed it up rather nicely here in James 4. Now if the truth of Christ and God causes offence it is just to repent and believe the truth.

James 4
1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

 

[HammerStone]

I would term this a common struggle.

At the end of the day, the Holy Spirit plays a key part for me in discernment.

Proverbs 14:8 ESV
The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way,
but the folly of fools is deceiving.

Romans 12:2 ESV
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

If our foundation is the fear of the Lord (Proverbs 1:7), then I think we employ that fear in how we handle his work. One of the major issues in the world is this idea of Balkanization (as its termed in politics) or tribalism. This is just the wordly tendency to break off into groups of similarities where one is comfortable. This happens along racial lines, belief lines, or anything else where there is division. Christians do this as well. We have tribes, and they go by names like Baptist and Methodists yes, but then they also go by names like mainline and evangelical.

At day's end, I think this question must be answered on this topic: Is my fellowshipping/associating/etc. with this person/these persons compromising for the glory of God or is this fellowshipping/associating/etc. compromising the glory of God? The answer to that question will vary, but just remember that Jesus dined with a varied assortment of sinners, and their lives were never the same.

It's too easy and too wordly to draw back into a fortress of like-minded believers. Sometimes - okay most of the time - this is very uncomfortable for us, but I think we are all guilty of trying too hard to define a certain level for a follower to reach in order for us to associate with them.

 

[aspen]

In my experience, it is not usually the first statement I disagree with that offends me. It is the reaction from the person who makes the statement when I disagree with it, which is offensive. It usually goes something like this:

Post: Dogmatic, didactic statement based on a conservative opinion, but presented as God's word.

My response: I disagree

Poster's response: sarcastic, bitter statement about my character and willful rebellious nature, dismissal.

My response: Hey, that was rude, I thought this was a discussion between equals?

Poster's final word: You are a whiner and not a Christian - stop playing the victim and repent.

See the problem? It is not the message that is offensive - it is the manner in which the message is used to exclude others and exalt the person presenting it. Christians with poor communication skills or big egos often hide behind the verses that talk about the offensive nature of the gospel. The ironic part is that many of the most dogmatic Christians are actually the most offended by the authentic gospel, which is simply a call to love God and neighbor, because it take away from their exclusive knowledge and power to oppress others with their theology.

 

[zhavoney]

I would term this a common struggle.

At the end of the day, the Holy Spirit plays a key part for me in discernment.

Proverbs 14:8 ESV
The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way,
but the folly of fools is deceiving.

Romans 12:2 ESV
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

If our foundation is the fear of the Lord (Proverbs 1:7), then I think we employ that fear in how we handle his work. One of the major issues in the world is this idea of Balkanization (as its termed in politics) or tribalism. This is just the wordly tendency to break off into groups of similarities where one is comfortable. This happens along racial lines, belief lines, or anything else where there is division. Christians do this as well. We have tribes, and they go by names like Baptist and Methodists yes, but then they also go by names like mainline and evangelical.

At day's end, I think this question must be answered on this topic: Is my fellowshipping/associating/etc. with this person/these persons compromising for the glory of God or is this fellowshipping/associating/etc. compromising the glory of God? The answer to that question will vary, but just remember that Jesus dined with a varied assortment of sinners, and their lives were never the same.

It's too easy and too wordly to draw back into a fortress of like-minded believers. Sometimes - okay most of the time - this is very uncomfortable for us, but I think we are all guilty of trying too hard to define a certain level for a follower to reach in order for us to associate with them.

This is very true. Very good post.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
According to Rom 14:1, the whole chapter addresses not just any bone of
contention; but specifically bones of contention related to faith. For example:

†. Acts 15:19-21 . . I judge that we should not trouble those from among the
Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from
things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and
from blood. For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach
him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

Were I a conscientious Jew, schooled in Moses' covenanted law, I would be
utterly disgusted by a religion that eats blood in the name of God when that
same God so clearly forbids it at Gen 9:4 and Lev 7:26. Hence the Jerusalem
council's ruling which states, in principle, that Christians ought to abstain from
bloody beverages like transubstantiation in order to avoid discouraging Jesus'
Jewish countrymen from buying into the cross.

Just think how awful it would be to some day find out that your own sacred
religious practices actually led to one or more of Jesus' Jewish countrymen
snubbing the cross and thereby going to hell all because of your addiction to
human blood. It's a terrible thought.

†. Rom 14:15-17 . . If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you
are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for
whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil.

†. Rom 14:21 . . It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else
that will cause your brother to fall.

†. 1Cor 10:31-33 . . So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all
for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Gentiles,
or the church of God-- even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I
am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

Buen Camino
/

 

[mjrhealth]

Its easy to offend most christians, just tell them teh truth and watch what happens.

Inall His Love

 

[Guestman]

To needlessly offend shows a lack of love. Jesus established that during our time period, called "the last days" by the apostle Paul (2 Tim 3:1), that "because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will cool off."(Matt 24:12) Offensive speech is everywhere, for many do have any loving-kindness and are often harsh in their words. Nabal, the husband of Abigail was such a man.(1 Sam 25:3)


In dealing with the calloused and murderous spirited Jewish religious leaders, Jesus often spoke direct and firmly, calling them at times "serpents, offspring of vipers".(Matt 23:33) But to others, such as the "tax collectors and the harlots", he dealt lovingly.


For example, with a woman that was a known prostitute, after she had "wept and started to wet his (Jesus) feet with her tears and she would wipe them off with the hair of her head", Jesus later said: "Your sins are forgiven" and "Your faith has saved you; go your way in peace."(Luke 7:38, 48, 50)


Or on another occasion, a Phoenician woman whose daughter was "badly demonized", instead just sending her away harshly because "I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", spoke compassionately to her.(Matt 15:24) He called her a ' little dog ', or puppy.(Matt 15:26)


Jesus used the Greek word kunariois meaning "a puppy", softening his words, instead of the Greek word kuon meaning "dog" as the King James Bible reads, for the word "dog" had a negative connotation.(see 2 Pet 2:22 as well as Phil 3:2 and Rev. 22:15)


At Proverbs 15:1, it says: "An answer when mild, turns away rage, but a word causing pain makes anger come up." Jesus genuine disciples will follow in his "footsteps", both in conduct and speech, for Jesus said: "Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for your souls. For my yoke is kindly and my load is light."(Matt 11:28-30)


Thus, those who wish to imitate Jesus life-pattern, these must show agape or self-sacrificing love by not needlessly offending others and if such does happen, Jesus said: "If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift."(Matt 5:23, 24; see also 1 Cor 13:4-8)

 

[clark thompson]

We as believers also should not let thosewo follow God's will offend us by doing so. If what we doing is offending ssomeone and is not something the Lord has lead u to do we should stop doing it.

 

[Guestman]

In Romans 14, what is the apostle Paul helping true Christians to understand ? Of the need to watch what we do and eat so as not to stumble others. Jesus made a life changing statement. After having said: "Truly I say to you, Unless you turn around and become as young children, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens", he then says that "whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as turned by an ass and be sunk in the wide open sea."(Matt 18:3, 6)


At Romans 14:13, Paul stresses the importance to "not be judging one another any longer, but rather make this your decision not to put before a brother a stumbling block or a cause for tripping." Paul then defines what might cause a "brother" to "stumble" or ' be tripped ' out of "the truth".(2 Tim 2:18)


He says: "For if because of food your brother is being grieved, you are no longer walking in accord with love. Do not by your food ruin that one for whom Christ died." If a "brother" were to eat that which causes another "brother" to be stumbled so as to leave off from zealously serving our Creator, Jehovah God, and especially if they are completely "stumbled" out of "the truth", then Jesus words at Matthew 18 could come into play.


How could this be illustrated ? Say, for example, that a new "brother" has been taught all his life that the drinking of alcohol is wrong, that it is a sin to drink any form of alcohol.(though the Bible shows that moderation in drinking alcohol is fine, Ps 104:15; Ecc 9:7).


What if a "brother" were then to offer him an acohol beverage or drinks one in front of him (knowing his past raising) and this has an adverse effect on his faith ? Paul said that to "stop tearing down the work of God just for the sake of food (or drink). True, all things are clean (as far as food and even moderation in alcohol), but it is injurious to the man who with an occasion for stumbling eats. It is well not to eat flesh or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles."(Rom 14:20, 21)


So does one have the right to pursue that which might stumble a "brother" ? Some will say that "I have the right to eat or drink or do anything I want". But if this causes a "brother" to be ' tripped' and fall away from serving our Creator, Jehovah God, then how does God view this selfish pursuit ?


This could be applied to anything, from homes to cars to watches to anything. Many religious leaders drive exotic cars, and have Rolex watches, as well live in a mansion, while their "flock" drives a Dodge Neon and lives in very modest house and has Timex (or no-name) for a watch. Remember Jesus words at Matthew 18:6.

 

[aspen]

Love offends our ego because it require vulnerability. There is no provision in the Bible for a rude messenger.