Salvation by Grace through faith alone

[shturt678s]

Thank you folks for caring!

Only a minor head's up. God the Holy Spirit works on one from the outside in where one has, at one's instant of faith, saved and in the "Kingdom of God" even before one's water baptism.....my opinion only.

Secondly, Rom.10:9, 10 is assuming one was already "saved," ie, our Lord doesn't have 007 secret agents like the CIA has.

Old Jack's opinion only.

 

[RANDOR]

Thank you folks for caring!

Only a minor head's up. God the Holy Spirit works on one from the outside in where one has, at one's instant of faith, saved and in the "Kingdom of God" even before one's water baptism.....my opinion only.

Secondly, Rom.10:9, 10 is assuming one was already "saved," ie, our Lord doesn't have 007 secret agents like the CIA has.

Old Jack's opinion only.

Yep...........got saved here first........Jesus didn't wait to come and see me after I was baptized.
It was red alert time..............I needed answers now...or BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He heard the cry..............and whaaaaaala............It's a beautiful thing.......being saved that is.

 

[lforrest]

he moment we believe we are saved ... Romans 10:9 &10 says,

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The "you will be saved" does not mean that one day, sometime in the future, you will be saved, no, Paul immediately follows it up with,

"For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved".

"Is justified ... "is saved", right there and then ... I "is" justified and I "is" saved", not great English but you get the drift.

So salvation occurs when the believing one confesses Jesus Christ as Lord, then blammo it happens.
John adds the approach that by believing in his name (his name - which simply means in the person), is to "receive him".
So when did I receive him ?
When I believed in the person of Jesus Christ.
So what am I believing ?
The Gospel, the good news that Jesus Christ the sinless One, gave his pure life to God as a substitute for my rotten life.
A death God demanded I should have died.
My debt to God is now "paid in full" - tetalestai (Gk - paid in full).
In those days when you owed someone money they would nail a note on your door stating how much money you owed and when the debt was paid up
in full, they would nail another note using the word "tetalestai", paid in full.
Just before Jesus died on the cross he said "tetalestai" paid in full, and this was "nailed" over the door of every persons life debt they owed to God.
Hallelujah, we don't owe God anymore
And this debt cancellation with God happened at the very same time I accepted his gift of grace Jesus Christ by me believing in Christ and what He did
on the cross.

I definitely agree that "the good work He began in you" is the sanctifying work of the Holy spirit in our lives after believing in Christ.

Salvation is by grace through faith alone and therefore, any supposed suffering that we go through as Christians cannot be because Jesus didn't do
a complete job on the cross and now we have to make up for it by the works of suffering or enduring the world and all it throws at us.
Your verses: James 1:12, Acts 14:22.

No, if we continue steadfast through all the junk of life and don't quit it just proves that our faith in Christ is genuine and this means that our salvation
is a reality.

Thank you for the response Enquirer.

It makes since that those who do follow what is written in Romans 10:10 must be justified then and there. If we weren't justified immediately I don't see how God's Holy Spirit would dwell within us, and how Christians could manifest the spiritual gifts.

Yet there are warnings about names being stricken from the book of life. You could say these people were never saved to begin with, and I believe you would be right. Yet some were able to do works that would require the Spirit. He is able to add or remove a name from the book of life at will.

 

[Enquirer]

@ Theodore ... "When He comes He will convict the world of sin" is referring to the Holy Spirit (context), now we know that the Holy Spirit
does not go around preaching like Jesus did, so He works through us the "ministers of reconciliation" (2 Cor 5:18).
When we minister/preach the Gospel then the Holy Spirit works through us convicting the people of their sin ... whether they like to admit it
or not and this obviously takes place after the resurrection because then the Holy Spirit was sent.
As to rom 2:13 ... Paul just got through telling the romans in verse 12 that,

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Example, the people in the pre-flood world were judged by God according to the moral Law of God, not the written Law because the only one
that existed at the time was the time was "Thou shalt not eat from the tree in the middle of the Garden".
The same goes for the people in Sodom and Gomorrah, there was no written Law yet given, yet they were still judged.
He then goes on to say in verse 13 that,

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified

Paul's whole point is in this section of verses is that the whole world is guilty of sin, those who know what He commands because they
have His written Law and those who don't have his written Law.
Those who don't have his written Law have their consciences to convict them of what is right and wrong, as God has placed his moral
Law in everyone's heart/conscience.
Check this out in verses 14 and 15.
He is not saying that we have to obey any Law at all ... because NO ONE CAN OBEY THE LAW.

Gal 2:16 says,
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

As to "salvation being universal" ... the offer is made to every one with the guaranteed promise that "whosoever" accepts it will be saved.
If I purchase Mcdonalds and send out flyers telling everyone that the food is now free and you choose not to come and eat that's your
problem, the offer has been made.
Christ has made available the gift of eternal life by nailing "paid in full" over every persons sin but if they reject the offer then it's their
loss ... salvation is not automatic ... why then bother with telling the disciples to "go out into the world and preach the Gospel" ?
It has to be accepted.

@ 1forrest ... precisely, no salvation, no Holy Spirit.
Yes, some names will be struck from the Book of Life, even if they display the power of god working through them, remember Jesus
said,

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven
will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons,
and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO
PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Christians who have accepted Jesus and are saved need to understand that "he who does the will of my Father" will NOT have their names
struck/removed from the Book of Life ... because they do "will of my Father".
And what is the "will of my Father" ?

1 Thess 4:3 ... For this is the will of God, your sanctification:

Holiness, a holy lifestyle, achieved through prayer and the work of the Holy Spirit.


EDIT UPDATE

@ Theodore ... my apologies, my treatment of your question concerning Romans 2:13 was not clear according to my liking, (I went off track
looking at the context) and did not address your question, so let me rectify that.
Paul is not saying we have obey a Law prior to being declared righteous.

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified - Rom 2:13

He is saying that merely hearing or knowing what the Law says does not make you right with God, it the one who "does" the Law that
will be made righteous.
That is, "if" you could do/obey the Law.
But it is impossible to do it because of the sin principle that dwells in our flesh.
He illustrates this in Romans 7:7 to 23, now I don't want to quote this entire passage but only verses 8 to 11 that sum it up.

"But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.
I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me."

 

[heretoeternity]

As Paul says in Romans, do we make void the law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law" and "do we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid" (Sin according to Apostle John in Ist John "sin is transgression of the law"

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

 

[ATP]

There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Good post. Yes we are sealed. The only danger is losing crowns at the Bema Seat of Christ. Blessings, ATP.

Eph 1:11-14 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.

Enduring is not about losing salvation, it's about gaining crowns in heaven after you die.

1 Cor 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

 

[heretoeternity]

Faith without works is dead, James 2...and Revelation 22..Jesus said behold I come quickly and my reward is with me for everyman according to his works....
Paul in Romans said should we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid..and do we make void the law through faith? No, We establish the law...and 1st John says sin is transgression of God's law...

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

 

[Born_Again]

Romans 1:16New International Version (NIV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

 

[Butch5]

There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I believe this refers to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. But read carefully, it says, "who began" is that a foregone conclusion or a condition?

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.
James 1:12
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 10:21-22
Acts 14:22
Revelation 2:10

What is the cause of this danger?

I agree with you that salvation is not a done deal when one believes. However, I believe this passage Philippians is not speaking of Christians in general. The Philippian church in contrast to others was supporting Paul's ministry financially. I believe this is the good work that Paul is referring to.

 

[StanJ]

We are sealed by our confession of Jesus Christ as Saviour. 2 Tim 2:19
When we are baptized by the Holy Spirit and power, we are sealed for Jesus' return. Eph 4:30
Salvation happens BEFORE we receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[heretoeternity]

StanJ...how can you tell if you have God's Holy Spirit, or the spirit of satan/antichrist?

 

[justaname]

1 John 4:15-18
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has bfor us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

All the talk about abiding in God...here it is in Scripture, this is how we abide. This passage also speaks to fear...

1 John 3:23-24
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

How can you tell which spirit you have? Love is the answer, coupled with your confession of Jesus Christ as Lord.
Christianity Fundamentals, you get this and you get it all. The remainder of Scripture allows you to grow and mature in the knowledge of God. If you are to remain in love you reflect the divine nature...notice Scripture continually reduces Law to love, obedience to love, and the importance of our Christian walk to love.

2 Peter 3-7 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So then the perseverance of the saints doctrine is true in as much as you truly believe and have been endowed with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our redemption. Shall we fear? Truly yes because no one is holy like the Lord, so we shall shake and tremble in awe of His holy presence, yet through Christ we have been reconciled and with the Spirit we participate in the divine nature which is love, and perfect love casts out all fear for as He is so are we in this world.

 

[KingJ]

StanJ...how can you tell if you have God's Holy Spirit, or the spirit of satan/antichrist?

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I believe this refers to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. But read carefully, it says, "who began" is that a foregone conclusion or a condition?

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.
James 1:12
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 10:21-22
Acts 14:22
Revelation 2:10

What is the cause of this danger?

There is a strong argument for OSAS. As God does not make mistakes. God does not 'come in' Rev 3:20 unles we have properly invited Him in.

But I think 1 Cor 10:12 and Job 9:3 are the cure to this dilemma. As humans we are unwise to say we have already made it. God may very well know who from true free will is His, but we don't.

Paul wants us to constantly continue working out our salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12. Constantly judging ourselves 1 Cor 11:31. Constant warnings. We need to take both scripture supporting OSAS and Arminian and put them together.

The danger is... that we don't judge ourselves and '''think''' we are saved because we said some magical words

Many believe '''God is love''...therefore He will love me as I am....and somehow....I suddenly love Him....as long as He fits in with my lifestyle.