saved through faith in Jesus alone

[horsecamp]

A CHRISTIAN CAN RIGHTLY SAY

Come judge me I stand in Jesus perfect record of obedience ..Come judge me .. Jesus took all my sins away past present and future..

Come judge me every thing you see me do wrong Jesus did it perfect for me ..

Come judge me . the child I neglected to feed Jesus opens his hand and feeds billions each year in my place .

Come judge me because its not me your judging its JESUS ..

for I have been crucified with Christ and It is I who no longer LIVE; it is Christ who lives in me..

Gods own child and I will gladly say it -----hymn http://www.youtube.c...h?v=t5V8LTawhpw


The devils conversation with a dying Christian
http://www.clcluther...gchristian.html

 

[SolaGratia]

Yes. My standing before Christ is based on His righteousness, which was imputed to me.

And yes, any sin the one might judge me for has already been judged and punished in Christ.

There is a sense, though, in which it is appropriate for my brothers and sisters in Christ to judge me. Jesus tells us to take the speck out of our brothers eye (after we take the log out of our own, of course). He says you must see clearly to do so, which is a type of discernment or judgement of another's life. It is right for a brother to come to me to correct and rebuke me.

 

[horsecamp]

Yes. My standing before Christ is based on His righteousness, which was imputed to me.

And yes, any sin the one might judge me for has already been judged and punished in Christ.

There is a sense, though, in which it is appropriate for my brothers and sisters in Christ to judge me. Jesus tells us to take the speck out of our brothers eye (after we take the log out of our own, of course). He says you must see clearly to do so, which is a type of discerrnment or judgement of another's life. It is right for a brother to eeome to me to correct and rebuke me.

Yes your right..A brother rebukes another brother only out of love that a brother sin may cause them to reject the true faith; that their saved through faith in Jesus alone.. FAITH That your already forgiven for a sin by Jesus can be in jepordy if a person reject's that he sinned..




One of the most famous rebukes was the rebuke St paul gave to st peter,,

it proved st peter was not over the other apostles ..they were all equal..

the only time peter ever was a pope was when he sinned. he was pope then he worshiped at the alter of self.

when we sin we to are our own pope. .breaking the first commandment

Luther was rightly accused by the papacy of his day for having the bible as his pope.. yet that is all the pope we need..

 

[SolaGratia]

Luther was rightly accused by the papacy of his day for having the bible as his pope.. yet that is all the pope we need..

Amen!

 

[KingJ]

Amen!

and Amen!

 

[Mungo]

Is this a satire?

 

[day]

Is this a satire?

I don't think it is meant as satire, I think they really believe what they are saying is true.

 

[Dodo_David]

Is this a satire?

The point of the OP is that the shed blood of Messiah Jesus covers our sins whenever we are trusting in Him alone for eternal life.
Thus, when the only real judge - God the Father - looks at us, He doesn't see our sins. Instead, he sees the blood of Jesus.

 

[Mungo]

The point of the OP is that the shed blood of Messiah Jesus covers our sins whenever we are trusting in Him alone for eternal life.
Thus, when the only real judge - God the Father - looks at us, He doesn't see our sins. Instead, he sees the blood of Jesus.

You may think that is the point of the OP but that is not what the exchange said.

It's not what the Bible says either.

 

[Harry3142]

I saw this same statement on another website recently. And the ultimate purpose there for it was as an argument in favor of the homosexual lifestyle. IOW, it was being used in order to argue that anyone who paid lipservice to Christ's sacrifice could live a lifestyle which was a direct contradiction to what he and his apostles taught, without facing any consequences for having lived that lifestyle.

However, Scripture itself teaches that those who truly accept Jesus' sacrifice will be given a new nature. This new nature will see certain actions and motivations as abhorrent, even if prior to accepting Jesus' sacrifice those same actions and motivations were seen as desirable. In their place will be implanted a new set of motivations, which will be channeled toward the betterment of not only themselves, but also all others around them:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

That this passage is to be taken seriously is underlined by a passage in the next chapter:

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. (Galatians 6:7-10,NIV)

When we are born physically the signs of a successful birth is a spontaneous heartbeat, respirations, and brain activity. When we are reborn spiritually the signs of a successful rebirth are the motivations listed as 'the fruit of the Spirit' beginning to take control of our actions. So those who claim that they can mouth the words, "I accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice as the perfect atonement for my sins," so that they can continue living without fear of consequences a lifestyle which is diametrically opposed to Christianity will find a horrific judgement awaiting them.

 

[SolaGratia]

You may think that is the point of the OP but that is not what the exchange said.

It's not what the Bible says either.

Rather than being vague, perhaps you could point out what in the exchange you find unbiblical. Maybe something wasn't clear and needs to be clarified. Maybe something one of us said is in error and needs to be corrected. Or maybe you're mistaken about something and would benefit from gentle correction.

If any of those outcomes occur, this will have been a productive exchange. But until you raise your issue, we really can't address it.

As an aside, Mungo, I like your signature (Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.)

 

[Dodo_David]

At least the title of this discussion thread is accurate. ^_^

 

[IanLC]

Yes we are saved by God's Grace through our faith but Jesus also requires us to live holy and to love. So obedience is key as well! Jesus is both Savior and Lord! Blessings!

 

[KingJ]

Yes we are saved by God's Grace through our faith but Jesus also requires us to live holy and to love. So obedience is key as well! Jesus is both Savior and Lord! Blessings!

I agree. Faith is a verb not a noun! .

It is technically correct to say 'we are saved by faith'! As long as we properly grasp what that faith is and what it involves. It is faith in Jesus being Lord and hence involves us keeping Him as Lord of our lives. Faith in Jesus being Lord has to be revealed to us 1 Cor 12:3. This only happens when we draw near to God on His terms. Matt 16:24 is needed for James 4:8 whilst bearing in mind Jer 17:10.

 

[Mungo]

Rather than being vague, perhaps you could point out what in the exchange you find unbiblical. Maybe something wasn't clear and needs to be clarified. Maybe something one of us said is in error and needs to be corrected. Or maybe you're mistaken about something and would benefit from gentle correction.

If any of those outcomes occur, this will have been a productive exchange. But until you raise your issue, we really can't address it.

As an aside, Mungo, I like your signature (Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.)

And yes, any sin the one might judge me for has already been judged and punished in Christ.

Do you really think that Jesus was punished instead of us?

This is the theory of penal substitution. There are four problems with this theory:

1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

Why would Jesus tell us to pray to the Father “forgive us our sins” if Jesus was punished instead of us? There would be no need for forgiveness.

Yes. My standing before Christ is based on His righteousness, which was imputed to me.

.


God is not deceived. He does not play legal games. God makes us truly righteous not just pretend we are righteous.

“But nothing unclean shall enter it” [the new Jerusalem – heaven] (Rev 21:7). Playing pretend doesn’t make us clean.

Jesus is the TRUTH

Yes your right..A brother rebukes another brother only out of love that a brother sin may cause them to reject the true faith; that their saved through faith in Jesus alone.. FAITH That your already forgiven for a sin by Jesus can be in jepordy if a person reject's that he sinned..




One of the most famous rebukes was the rebuke St paul gave to st peter,,

it proved st peter was not over the other apostles ..they were all equal..

the only time peter ever was a pope was when he sinned. he was pope then he worshiped at the alter of self.

when we sin we to are our own pope. .breaking the first commandment

Luther was rightly accused by the papacy of his day for having the bible as his pope.. yet that is all the pope we need..

I'm not sure where to start with this. I haven't come across anuthing so crass for a long time.

So Paul rebuked Peter. So what? How does that prove they were all equal? There are many scriptures that show that Peter was selected out of all, the apostles to be the leader.

How was Pete a pope when he sinned? Does sinning make us a pope? Where does scripture say that?

When did Peter worship at the altar of self? Where does scripture say that?
.
When was Luther accused byt he Papacy of having the Bible as his pope? Exact quote please.

WHat does it mean to claim the bible is all the pope you need?

This is complete rubbish but you go "Amen" to it!

. Jesus took all my sins away past present and future..

Really?

I can sin all I like and there are no consequences?

Why did Jesus tell us to pray to the Father "forgive us our sins" is there is nothing for him to forgive?

 

[SolaGratia]

1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

I'm very curious what you think Jesus accomplished on the cross if not the propitiation for sin.

1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.

The punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23). If I died in my sin, that would include eternal separation from God. But Christ's death on the cross and his temporary separation from the Father was equivalent in value to an eternity in hell for me. This is what Paul means when he says that Christ was a propitiation (Romans 3:25). Christ's death satisfied the Father's wrath for the sins of the elect. The penalty (for the sin of the elect) was paid in full.

2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.

Yes, that is the gospel, accomplished by Christ, taught by Paul (in Romans, among other places), affirmed by Augustine (and many others), lost by Rome, and recovered in the Reformation. Be careful that you don't preach another gospel (Galatians 1:6-8).

3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.

Exactly! A lot of people miss that truth (or choose to ignore it), but you got it. God will not punish a sin more than once.

However, according to the doctrine of Limited Atonement (or Particular Redemption), Christ only made payment for the sins of the elect.

Christ did not die for the sins of the those who are not elect because, as you rightly point out, if He had, then God would be "taking double payment for the same debt" when they were condemned.

4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

Mercy, in this sense, means to reduce the suffering of another. But for a Holy God, that could not mean simply "letting off" anyone. Justice had to be served. So God accomplished this mercy by willingly taking that suffering on Himself in the person of His son.

 

[Mungo]

I'm very curious what you think Jesus accomplished on the cross if not the propitiation for sin.

1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.

The punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23). If I died in my sin, that would include eternal separation from God. But Christ's death on the cross and his temporary separation from the Father was equivalent in value to an eternity in hell for me. This is what Paul means when he says that Christ was a propitiation (Romans 3:25). Christ's death satisfied the Father's wrath for the sins of the elect. The penalty (for the sin of the elect) was paid in full.

2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.

Yes, that is the gospel, accomplished by Christ, taught by Paul (in Romans, among other places), affirmed by Augustine (and many others), lost by Rome, and recovered in the Reformation. Be careful that you don't preach another gospel (Galatians 1:6-8).

3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.

Exactly! A lot of people miss that truth (or choose to ignore it), but you got it. God will not punish a sin more than once.

However, according to the doctrine of Limited Atonement (or Particular Redemption), Christ only made payment for the sins of the elect.

Christ did not die for the sins of the those who are not elect because, as you rightly point out, if He had, then God would be "taking double payment for the same debt" when they were condemned.

4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

Mercy, in this sense, means to reduce the suffering of another. But for a Holy God, that could not mean simply "letting off" anyone. Justice had to be served. So God accomplished this mercy by willingly taking that suffering on Himself in the person of His son.

Thank you for your opinions.

However since you provide no biblical evidence for them I feel no obligation to discuss them.