Has anyone noticed that no Calvinist have appeared on this thread.Calvinism is a false demonic doctrine that believes God predestinates people to hell before they are born, making God an unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.
Luke 18:17, "WHOSOEVER shall not receive the Kingdom of God as a little Child shall in no wise enter in."
John 3:15, "WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish".
John 4:14, "WHOSOEVER drinks of this water that I shall give him shall never perish".
JOHN 11:26, "WHOSOEVER lives and believes in me shall never die, do you believe this?"
John 12:46, "I am become a light into the world, that WHOSOEVER believes in me should not abide in darkness"
Acts 2:21, "And it shall come to pass that WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved".
Acts 10:43, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name WHOSOEVER believes in him shall receive remission of sins".
Romans 9:33, "As it is written, behold I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and a rock of offense: and WHOSOEVER believes in him shall not be ashamed.".
Romans 10:11, "For the scripture says WHOSOEVER believes in him shall not be ashamed".
Romans 10:13, "For WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved".
1 John 4:15, "WHOSOEVER shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dells in him, and he of God".
John 5:1, WHOSOEVER believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God".
Matthew 11:28, Come unto me ALL OF YOU that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest".
Matthew 10:32, WHOSOEVER shall confess me before men, him will I confess before my Father in heaven".
Matthew 16:32, "For WHOSOEVER will save his life shall lose it; and WHOSOEVER will lose his life for my sake shall find it".
Matthew 18:4, WHOSOEVER shall receive a little child in my name receives me".
Matthew 24:14, "And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all of the WORLD
Mark 1:37, And when they had found hm, they said unto him ALL MEN are seeking you".
Mark 3:35, And WHOSOEVER shall do the will of God (believe on Jesus) the same is my brother, and my sister, and my mother".
Luke 2:31, Which you have prepared before the face of ALL PEOPLE".
Luke 6:47, WHOSOEVER will come after me, and hears my saying, and does them, I will show you whom he is like".
John 1:7, "The same came for a witness of the light, that ALL MEN through him might believe".
Luke 9:26, "WHOSOEVER shall be ashamed of me, and my words, of him shall the Son man be ashamed".
Luke 12:8, "WHOSOEVER shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man confess before the angels in heaven".
John 1:7, "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the light that ALL MEN through him might believe".
John 4:14, "But WHOSOEVER drinks of this water that I shall give him shall never thirst".
Mark 8:34, WHOSOEVER shall come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me".
John 3:16, For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life".
John 3:26, "To whom you bared witness, behold the same was baptizing and ALL MEN came to him".
John 12:32, "And if I be lifted up I will draw ALL MEN unto myself".
Acts 17:30, "And the times of this ignorance God winked at: but now commands ALL MEN every where to repent".
Acts 3:39, "And the promise is unto you and to your children and to ALL that are afar off, even as MANY as the Lord shall call."
Acts 22:15, "For you shall be witnesses unto ALL MEN of what you have seen and heard".
Acts 17:31, "Wherefore he has given assurance unto ALL MEN in that he has raised Jesus from the dead."
Acts 22:15, "For you shall be his witness unto ALL MEN of what you have seen and heard".
Romans 5:18, "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life".
Romans 8:32, "He that spared not his own son, but delivered him up for US ALL how shall he not give us all things".
Romans 11:32, For God has declared them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy UPON ALL".
1 Corinthians 9:22, "I am made all things to ALL MEN that I might win some".
1 Corinthians 15:22, "For as in Adam ALL DIE so in Christ shall ALL be made alive".
2 Corinthians 4:14-15, "For the love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge; that if one died FOR ALL, then we are ALL DEAD"
2 Corinthians 5:19, "God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD unto himself".
2 Corinthians 9:13, "While by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection into to the Gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto to them, and unto ALL MEN".
Galatians 3:28, "For you are ALL ONE in Jesus Christ".
Ephesians 3:9, "And to make ALL MEN see what is the fellowship of the mystery, from which from the beginning of the WORLD was hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ".
Galatians 3:28, "For you are ALL ONE in Jesus Christ".
1 Timothy 2:4, "Who will have ALL MEN to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth".
1 Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL".
1 Timothy 4:10, "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, especially of those who believe".
Hebrews 9:10, "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN".
Hebrews 10:10, "For that we will have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once FOR ALL".
James 1:5, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to ALL MEN liberally".
1 John 2:2, "And he is a propitiation for sins: and not ours only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD".
1 John 4:14, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the savior of the WHOLE WORLD".
1 John 5:4, "For WHATSOEVER (WHOSOEVER) is born of God overcomes the WORLD : and this is the victory that over comes the world OUR FAITH",
2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some men count slackness: but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that ANYONE should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance".
Scriptures that Refute Calvinism
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
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I'm here, I would love to discuss this this topic with you. Can we do this one on one? You start and I will refute any point you bring to table, and then you can do the same to to me, if you think you can. Pretty sure you cannot.
Just posting scriptures without laboring to give the sense to them proves nothing ! Remember that as you post.
Calvinism is one of the easiest religions that there is to refute.
There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.
If you are going to try and refute that, please don't quote man conceived literature. I use the KJV of the Bible.
If so, then why can not you enter into a discussion with me and prove what you are boasting about.
Robert, I have given you scriptures, and they mean nothing to you, for if they did, then you would defend them, which, so far, you have not.
So do I. So, let's get going.
Twisted calvinist interpretations... mean nothing to those being led by the Holy Ghost.
Those that know God's Word even a little bit aren't fooled by calvinist malarkey!
<---- Calvinism's Stinky MascotI thought that I was going to have a debate with Red Baker about Calvinism. I think that he chickened out.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Who do you think Peter was being led by when he had all of his funny ideas? You've got a lot to learn and little incentive or inclination to do so, I'm afraid. Whatever spirit is leading you must cause people to prance around arrogantly esteeming themselves better than others (Philippians 2:3).
.
I sometimes trap myself in understanding when I slide into thinking that God's mind works similar to mine. Those brief periods of my own arrogance are detrimental to my understanding.
The issue of predestination causes us to think we know how God does it, but do we?
Most of us remember that God knows (Foreknows) each of us before we are even born. Knowing us, God makes plans for us. Take for example:
Gen 18:19 For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.
Hosea 13:4–5 But I am Yahweh your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior. It was I who knew you in the wilderness, in the land of drought;
Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
This verse seems to be a warning for "all."
Mat 7:26–27 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
In the Hebrew mind, to know has a couple meanings. It is not the same "know" that we English speakers are usually familiar with. I think that we should see that "to foreknow" is the same as "to have a relationship with." God makes plans for us based on what He knows about us. Also, knowing us from the beginning, he also plans for our future condition - which already exists for Him.
I rest my mind on something else Paul said:
Rom 9:14–18 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
The issue of predestination causes us to think we know how God does it, but do we?
Most of us remember that God knows (Foreknows) each of us before we are even born. Knowing us, God makes plans for us. Take for example:
Gen 18:19 For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.
Hosea 13:4–5 But I am Yahweh your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior. It was I who knew you in the wilderness, in the land of drought;
Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
This verse seems to be a warning for "all."
Mat 7:26–27 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
In the Hebrew mind, to know has a couple meanings. It is not the same "know" that we English speakers are usually familiar with. I think that we should see that "to foreknow" is the same as "to have a relationship with." God makes plans for us based on what He knows about us. Also, knowing us from the beginning, he also plans for our future condition - which already exists for Him.
I rest my mind on something else Paul said:
Rom 9:14–18 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Logikos
Active Member
As well done as this is, it barely scratches the surface!
There are dozens of directions from which similar lists could be compiled that prove without doubt that Calvinism is false.
Take, for example, the list of God's attributes that could not exist if God were outside of time, as Calvinism requires....
God is patient.
God is slow to anger.
God is faithful.
God is long-suffering (not quite the same thing as patient, by the way)
Etc.
All of those things that are so universally accepted as attributes of God that there's not even any need to quote the relevant scriptures and none of them would have any meaning "outside of time". The Calvinist immediately relegates all such language concerning God to be one kind of figure of speech or another. If you ask them what the figure of speech means, you get no answer.
More importantly, they do not care. The fact that they render whole swaths of scripture to be utterly meaningless and the fact that they are routinely cornered by their own beliefs, doesn't move them an inch away from their doctrine because they don't expect for their doctrine to make sense and so no argument could ever convince them that what they believe is false. They'd never put it in these terms but they absolutely do live by the truism, "If you're being irrational, there's no need to make sense!"
There's literally a whole list of such lists that one could compile and if any one of them is sufficient by itself to falsify Calvinist doctrine.
Logikos
Active Member
Given this mindset, tell me a principle, any one principle at all, by which you could determine that a particular doctrine is false.
Show me the doctrine that someone couldn't plug into the slot where you have predestination and perform the same trick?
Just consider that rhetorical because if you try, you will fail.
If God can be irrational, there is no doctrine that is out of bounds!
Logikos
Active Member
They don't care about the book! If the book appears to contradict their doctrine they will allegorize any passage, redefine any word, invent any term or by whatever other means necessary, explain away any amount of scripture that is needs to be explained away in order to preserve the notion that God is immutable and that He is in complete, first person, direct and absolute control of every single event that happens.
Logikos
Active Member
There isn't any question about that. Calvinism is reformed Augustinian doctrine (Luther was an Augustinian monk). Augustine tells us plainly in his own writings that his doctrine was designed specifically to reconcile what the bible plainly states with the world as he understood it through Aristotelian philosophy. Augustine specifically refused to become a Christian until his mother's bishop, Ambrose of Milan, taught him how to interpret Genesis so that it doesn't conflict with the immutable god of Aristotle and Plato.
Prior to that, no one but the Greeks believed that God was immutable (and most of them didn't believe it either!), which is the singular premise to the whole entire system.
Sounds pretty man made to me!
How about the principle that everything written in the original manuscripts is from God and is true? How about the principle that if we believe that there are conflicting statements in scripture, the conflict is with us and not with God's scriptures. I prefer the principle that no doctrine should exist unless it can be validated by the entirety of scripture? Those principles are a good start, don't you think?
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