Self Cast Out Self?!

[Netchaplain]

What determines the quality of individuals is their nature. True, the Holy Spirit in a believer is most valuable but this is referring to Him and not the regenerate individual. It’s the nature that determines the outcome of one’s character, identification and person-hood because everything we do is the result of our nature. Animals do not possess the ability of autonomy as a human does because they have instinct instead of a nature, therefore, instinct directs animals and a nature directs humans.

Scripture teaches all humans since Adam are born with a sinful nature (Rom 5:12), so what makes the difference of an individual at regeneration?—the addition of a new nature or “new man” (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10), which now coexists with the old nature. What makes the new nature valuable?—it is created after the image of Christ (Col 3:10) and through it the Holy Spirit brings, not His life, but the life of the Lord Jesus (Gal 2:20; Col 3:4).

The “new man” or, new nature is not all you (the regenerate) but part of you because the “old man” or old nature is also still part of you. It’s not as though the believer’s nature is half of the old and half of the new, but it is mostly of the new because the Spirit opposes the old nature (Gal 5:17) and restrains it from further domination (Rom 6:12, 14).

Just as Satan “cannot cast out Satan” (Matt 12:26; Mark 3:23), “old man” cannot cast out old man; neither can the believer in his “new man” cast out the old man because as already indicated (Gal 5:17), it must be by the Holy Spirit. It is due to His opposition to the old nature in the believer, which is the “carnal mind” that cannot “be subjected to the law of God” (Rom 8:7), that the Father “worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phil 2:13).

It has been well said that, "Love does not function according to the quality of its object, but according to its nature."

-NC

 

[jiggyfly]

Good read NC and the title made me chuckle, good choice.Keep on posting. :)

 

[Netchaplain]

Good read NC and the title made me chuckle, good choice.Keep on posting. :)

Hi JF and thanks for your compliments and support.

God's blessings to you Family and chat ya later!

 

[Episkopos]

What determines the quality of individuals is their nature. True, the Holy Spirit in a believer is most valuable but this is referring to Him and not the regenerate individual. It’s the nature that determines the outcome of one’s character, identification and person-hood because everything we do is the result of our nature. Animals do not possess the ability of autonomy as a human does because they have instinct instead of a nature, therefore, instinct directs animals and a nature directs humans.

Scripture teaches all humans since Adam are born with a sinful nature (Rom 5:12), so what makes the difference of an individual at regeneration?—the addition of a new nature or “new man” (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10), which now coexists with the old nature. What makes the new nature valuable?—it is created after the image of Christ (Col 3:10) and through it the Holy Spirit brings, not His life, but the life of the Lord Jesus (Gal 2:20; Col 3:4).

The “new man” or, new nature is not all you (the regenerate) but part of you because the “old man” or old nature is also still part of you. It’s not as though the believer’s nature is half of the old and half of the new, but it is mostly of the new because the Spirit opposes the old nature (Gal 5:17) and restrains it from further domination (Rom 6:12, 14).

Just as Satan “cannot cast out Satan” (Matt 12:26; Mark 3:23), “old man” cannot cast out old man; neither can the believer in his “new man” cast out the old man because as already indicated (Gal 5:17), it must be by the Holy Spirit. It is due to His opposition to the old nature in the believer, which is the “carnal mind” that cannot “be subjected to the law of God” (Rom 8:7), that the Father “worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phil 2:13).

It has been well said that, "Love does not function according to the quality of its object, but according to its nature."

-NC

A new nature can't co-exist with an old nature!!! You can't live with 2 wives (or 2 husbands according to Paul).

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


The law condemns the old nature! The cross eliminates that which condemns us....the law? No the old nature that defiled us. ! The cross works death to the old man! But the Spirit quickens a new life in us!

 

[Netchaplain]

A new nature can't co-exist with an old nature!!! You can't live with 2 wives (or 2 husbands according to Paul).

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


The law condemns the old nature! The cross eliminates that which condemns us....the law? No the old nature that defiled us. ! The cross works death to the old man! But the Spirit quickens a new life in us.

Hi Episkopos - Even though our concepts often differ, I thank you for your labors in the Word and God's blessings to you Family!

I see it that we aren't married to a new nature but to the Lord Jesus which comes with the new nature and is part of the His "divine nature." This is how we are "partakers of the (Christ's) divine nature" (2 Pet 1:4).

IMO, I believe it was God and not the Law which condemned "sin" (Rom 8:3), for the Law was not a nature nor a power, but a revelatory instrument God used to show man sin, because where there was no law there would be no sin, nor imputation of it (Rom 4:15). This is what is meant by "the strength of sin is the law" (1 Cor 15:56), it showed man where he was wrong and even the Lord Jesus Himself did the same for them (John 15:24).

My understanding concerning the work of the Cross is that it only "eliminated" the curse of guilt which it incurred and its dominion (Rom 6:12, 14) it possessed, but not its presence. Weather a believer accepts it's ongoing presence or not, it will not change the ongoing Holy Spirit's opposition to it (Gal 5:17).

I agree with you that, "The cross works death to the old man," except for the word "death." If the sinful nature were dead, it would be gone and we would be without sin, which conflicts with 1 John 1:8 and the whole of Scripture. That's why my concept of what the Cross did and does continually is "crucify" (mortify). This is also why sin still effects the believer, just no longer to the point of control, which is no comparison to our guiltless state.

We are in agreement that "the Spirit quickens a new life in us," which is "born of the Spirit."

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos - Even though our concepts often differ, I thank you for your labors in the Word and God's blessings to you Family!

I see it that we aren't married to a new nature but to the Lord Jesus which comes with the new nature and is part of the His "divine nature." This is how we are "partakers of the (Christ's) divine nature" (2 Pet 1:4).

IMO, I believe it was God and not the Law which condemned "sin" (Rom 8:3), for the Law was not a nature nor a power, but a revelatory instrument God used to show man sin, because where there was no law there would be no sin, nor imputation of it (Rom 4:15). This is what is meant by "the strength of sin is the law" (1 Cor 15:56), it showed man where he was wrong and even the Lord Jesus Himself did the same for them (John 15:24).

My understanding concerning the work of the Cross is that it only "eliminated" the curse of guilt which it incurred and its dominion (Rom 6:12, 14) it possessed, but not its presence. Weather a believer accepts it's ongoing presence or not, it will not change the ongoing Holy Spirit's opposition to it (Gal 5:17).

I agree with you that, "The cross works death to the old man," except for the word "death." If the sinful nature were dead, it would be gone and we would be without sin, which conflicts with 1 John 1:8 and the whole of Scripture. That's why my concept of what the Cross did and does continually is "crucify" (mortify). This is also why sin still effects the believer, just no longer to the point of control, which is no comparison to our guiltless state.

We are in agreement that "the Spirit quickens a new life in us," which is "born of the Spirit."

I agree with much of this! The difference is, as you say, concerning death. I think death means the separation of our old natures from ourselves. In the past we even identified with our old natures! But to come to Christ we need to be actually separated from what was once an integral part of us.

Does this death mean a complete removal from our lives!!!! No! It means we are completely separated from it...but can still be influenced by it WHEN we don't walk according to the Spirit.

When we walk according to the Spirit, then the fleshly tendencies follow us (as in get behind me satan!!) but from a distance. If we show care for this world, we are inviting a return of the former life. But as long as we keep walking with God...the nature we were born with is dead to us.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When we walk according to the Spirit, then the fleshly tendencies follow us (as in get behind me satan!!) but from a distance. If we show care for this world, we are inviting a return of the former life. But as long as we keep walking with God...the nature we were born with is dead to us.

I'm beginning to realize that it's not a matter of distance, per se, but of power. I could be completely covered with sin, but if it has no power over me, it's irrelevant. It's like dead skin or something. The strength and power of sin is the law. We are dead to the law and consequently, to its accusations. The consequences of sin that existed before the cross are now being passed over because of the blood of the lamb. So as much as sin would like to accuse me, it's irrelevant. GOD's not listening.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him through the blood of the lamb, through the word of their witness, and they didn't love their lives until death. Revelation 12:11

 

[Netchaplain]

I agree with much of this! The difference is, as you say, concerning death. I think death means the separation of our old natures from ourselves. In the past we even identified with our old natures! But to come to Christ we need to be actually separated from what was once an integral part of us.

Does this death mean a complete removal from our lives!!!! No! It means we are completely separated from it...but can still be influenced by it WHEN we don't walk according to the Spirit.

When we walk according to the Spirit, then the fleshly tendencies follow us (as in get behind me satan!!) but from a distance. If we show care for this world, we are inviting a return of the former life. But as long as we keep walking with God...the nature we were born with is dead to us.

Yes, the believer is "dead to sin" (Rom 6:2; 1 Pet 2:24) as his lifestyle and desires will exponentially reveal it more as the Holy Spirit conforms him, but it is not generally realized that sin is not dead to the believer. On the contrary, sin is enhanced and more vigorous by our knowledge of God's will, for "sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful" (Rom 7:13), as the comprehension of it is increasingly revealed.

When Christ sanctified us (Heb 2:11) He "consecrated a new and living way for us" (Heb 10:20) and this is what has separated us and continues to separate us (by the Spirit working in the new nature) from self, Satan and society, which as shown above, will be evident by increased holy living.

I'm beginning to realize that it's not a matter of distance, per se, but of power. I could be completely covered with sin, but if it has no power over me, it's irrelevant. It's like dead skin or something. The strength and power of sin is the law. We are dead to the law and consequently, to its accusations. The consequences of sin that existed before the cross are now being passed over because of the blood of the lamb. So as much as sin would like to accuse me, it's irrelevant. GOD's not listening.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him through the blood of the lamb, through the word of their witness, and they didn't love their lives until death. Revelation 12:11

Good input CRFTD! Thanks for your labors in the Word.

 

[daq]

The problem is that it is not "self casting out self" to begin with.
The "old man" is the prince of the power of the air and spirit of the world.
In physical terms think leprosy or cancer; it is not you, but enters by the flesh and kills the body.
Thanks be to God I can do all things through Messiah who strengthens me! :)

Isaiah 9:15 KJV
15. The ancient [HSN#2205 zaqen] and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

Original Strong's Ref. #2205
Romanized zaqen
Pronounced zaw-kane'
from HSN2204; old:
KJV--aged, ancient (man), elder(-est), old (man, men and...women), senator.

BDB Strong's Hebrew Definition for #02205
02205 // Nqz // zaqen // zaw-kane' //
from 02204 ; TWOT - 574b; adj
AV - elders 115, old 23, old man 19, ancient 14, aged 3, eldest 1,
ancient man 1, senators 1, old women 1; 178
1) old
1a) old (of humans)
1b) elder (of those having authority)

Sounds like the Red Dragon of Revelation 12:1-4 whose false prophet tail casts a third of the stars into the earth.

 

[Netchaplain]

The problem is that it is not "self casting out self" to begin with.
The "old man" is the prince of the power of the air and spirit of the world.
In physical terms think leprosy or cancer; it is not you, but enters by the flesh and kills the body.
Thanks be to God I can do all things through Messiah who strengthens me! :)

Isaiah 9:15 KJV
15. The ancient [HSN#2205 zaqen] and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

Original Strong's Ref. #2205
Romanized zaqen
Pronounced zaw-kane'
from HSN2204; old:
KJV--aged, ancient (man), elder(-est), old (man, men and...women), senator.

BDB Strong's Hebrew Definition for #02205
02205 // Nqz // zaqen // zaw-kane' //
from 02204 ; TWOT - 574b; adj
AV - elders 115, old 23, old man 19, ancient 14, aged 3, eldest 1,
ancient man 1, senators 1, old women 1; 178
1) old
1a) old (of humans)
1b) elder (of those having authority)

Sounds like the Red Dragon of Revelation 12:1-4 whose false prophet tail casts a third of the stars into the earth.

Hi Daq - Thanks for your input. IMO, I believe the "old man" is like the devil (John 8:44), but is not the devil; he is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Eph 2:2).

 

[daq]

Hi Daq - Thanks for your input. IMO, I believe the "old man" is like the devil (John 8:44), but is not the devil; he is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Eph 2:2).

The complete statement of Isaiah 9:15 in its entirety appears to be speaking of the Dragon, (Devil). Thus the great red Dragon appears to have both a head, (even seven) and a tail. So then, according to the Master, when the unclean spirit is cast out of the man he goes through dry-arid-desert places seeking rest and finds none. Then he goes and takes to himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they return to the man and retake the house, (the man is the house) and the last state of the man is worse than the first. That one is "the prince of the power of the air" because, like the shaggy goat of `Aza'zel, (with the little horn king having the anthropon countenance of `Az from Daniel 8) he is spirit, and therefore "touches not the ground" ("prince of the power of the air") as he comes from the west over the face of the whole earth. :)