Should the books of the bible been more like 77?

[Stranger]

Alice in Wonderland was written by a pedophile. I think we can safely say it should not be added. LOL

I love @rockytopva 's open mind. He is a seeker. I don't like the RCC telling me what is canonical in the New Testament, especially during the age of Pergamos when they added many pagan rituals to Christianity.

And Moses was a murderer with David who was an adulterer also. My sarcastic point was that you open the door to anything can be claimed as Scripture. Unless you have your own rules in place that determine what is in the canon of Scripture.

All Christians in the West were part of the Roman church in that day. That doesn't take away from the New Testament we have.

Open minded and seeking can cause one to fall into error also. If you reject the Canon of the New Testament we have, you have to then give what you determine as Scripture, as you have rejected what has been declared as Scripture. It is a dangerous move.

Stranger

 

[CharismaticLady]

He is a little late to determine canonicity or the methods of determination.

Stranger

Do you know his work? He proved that not just the thought was inspired, but ever letter.

 

[CharismaticLady]

All Christians in the West were part of the Roman church in that day. That doesn't take away from the New Testament we have.

That isn't true. There was the Roman Church, and the original church lead by the desposyni - relatives of Jesus.

 

[CharismaticLady]

And Moses was a murderer with David who was an adulterer also. My sarcastic point was that you open the door to anything can be claimed as Scripture. Unless you have your own rules in place that determine what is in the canon of Scripture.

All Christians in the West were part of the Roman church in that day. That doesn't take away from the New Testament we have.

Open minded and seeking can cause one to fall into error also. If you reject the Canon of the New Testament we have, you have to then give what you determine as Scripture, as you have rejected what has been declared as Scripture. It is a dangerous move.

Stranger

We are not rejecting the New Testament, just questioning if we have it all. I believe the Epistle of Barnabas is missing, but God has preserved it.

 

[Sabertooth]

The fledgling Church had no New Testament, at all, when She started.

 

[Man on Fire]

If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.

Some themes in the Bible are the Power of the Tongue and God's Holy Spirit. The Prophets, for example, do not contradict themselves. Men separated by time and space, God was talking through, and prophecy came true.There are themes that run through multiple authors. Some books may have been off, and didn't make it into the Bible.

Martin Luther, for example, wanted to remove parts of The Book of James because they didn't fit his doctrines. Who was wrong? Martin Luther of the God's Word? Martin Luther was becoming a false prophet who The Holy Ghost was not speaking through?

 

[reformed1689]

I like where you are going with this as I've thought that 66 books was more the number of man (6), the God (7). Even 70 would be better as that is divisible by 7, the key. And I have long held that the Epistle of Barnabas is the missing book of the New Testament, making the 27 NT books 28. 4 X 7 = 28.

In the Old Testament when counting books, some things to remember are the Jews had the 12 minor prophets as one book. (Hosea through Malachi). Also they didn't have Esther because the name of God was not in it.

Please tell me this is a joke...

 

[reformed1689]

If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.

Paul also referenced pagan works and inscriptions, should those be considered Scripture?

 

[Sabertooth]

Martin Luther was becoming a false prophet who The Holy Ghost was not speaking through?

Martin Luther was a mixed blessing. He joined the Catholics in persecuting the Anabaptists.

 

[Man on Fire]

Martin Luther was a mixed blessing. He joined the Catholics in persecuting the Anabaptists.

What I found interesting about Martin Luther, is he was said to be depressed later in life. That may be a sign that he wasn't doing the right things.
God takes away depression.

 

[reformed1689]

What I found interesting about Martin Luther, is he was said to be depressed later in life. That may be a sign that he wasn't doing the right things.
God takes away depression.

Oh here we go.....God takes away depression, what if it was a chemical depression, an illness? Good grief.

 

[Marymog]

If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.

Clement of Rome's letters were read at Church services and considered Scripture for MANY years until The Church defined what is Scripture.

 

[Marymog]

Alice in Wonderland was written by a pedophile. I think we can safely say it should not be added. LOL

I love @rockytopva 's open mind. He is a seeker. I don't like the RCC telling me what is canonical in the New Testament, especially during the age of Pergamos when they added many pagan rituals to Christianity.

Hi,

Your statement about you not liking "the RCC telling me what is canonical in the New Testament" is interesting to me. Do you not agree with the 27 books as being canonical?

Which pagan rituals during the age of Pergamos were added that you don't like?

Curious Mary

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi,

Your statement about you not liking "the RCC telling me what is canonical in the New Testament" is interesting to me. Do you not agree with the 27 books as being canonical?

Which pagan rituals during the age of Pergamos were added that you don't like?

Curious Mary

As I said, the 27 books of the New Testament are canonical, but do we have all the books that are God-breathed in our New Testament; or are one or more missing based on the decisions of man?

The biggest pagan adaptation is the worship of Ashtoreth and Tammuz.

 

[Marymog]

As I said, the 27 books of the New Testament are canonical, but do we have all the books that are God-breathed in our New Testament; or are one or more missing based on the decisions of man?

The biggest pagan adaptation is the worship of Ashtoreth and Tammuz.

I apologize. I didn't see where you said the 27 books are canonical.
Thank you for that clarification. It sounds as if you do not believe the men that put together the books of the bible and called them canonical were not being guided by God. Is that a fair assumption on my part? Why would God guide them to the correct 27 but not guide them to the correct 30? Or 33? Or 55?

Historically we know that The Church debated which letters should be in the NT. They eventually decided on the 27 letters. If we are wondering 'should there be more' because the "decisions of man" might be wrong then logic would say maybe 2 or 3 or even 5 of the 27 they did pick could be wrong....because of the "decisions of man". At what point does faith come in?

Curious Mary

 

[CharismaticLady]

I apologize. I didn't see where you said the 27 books are canonical.
Thank you for that clarification. It sounds as if you do not believe the men that put together the books of the bible and called them canonical were not being guided by God. Is that a fair assumption on my part? Why would God guide them to the correct 27 but not guide them to the correct 30? Or 33? Or 55?

Historically we know that The Church debated which letters should be in the NT. They eventually decided on the 27 letters. If we are wondering 'should there be more' because the "decisions of man" might be wrong then logic would say maybe 2 or 3 or even 5 of the 27 they did pick could be wrong....because of the "decisions of man". At what point does faith come in?

Curious Mary

They were supplied with many lists of candidate suggestions from different sources in the Church at large. The Epistle of Barnabas was on 6 of those lists, yet they failed to accept it. I think I know why. It had a prophecy in it, but the timing of the fulfillment would not have been for over a 1000 years from their time. It would have caused much confusion and maybe apathy, seeing as the return of Christ should always be "imminent." It just so happens that the prophecy could be fulfilled now! Maybe that is why God waited for an intact copy of it to not be discovered and republished until the late 1700's. As I recall, not even all the books we do have hit the lists. I think they decided to include anything with Paul's signature. The similarities of content between The Epistle of Barnabas and Hebrews makes me believe Barnabas wrote Hebrews, as it does not have Paul's signature anywhere, but definitely written by a Jew, and not a forgery by a Greek in Alexandria.

These are my own conclusions, so you can take them or leave them. I am content either way. But judge by the Spirit, not blind faith, and not just a man-made denominational stance. If the E of B was included in our Bible with its clear commandment against abortion and infanticide, maybe 65,000,000 babies in America alone would not have been chosen to be killed by their own mothers. But, there again, if those mothers cared what God thought, they wouldn't have been fornicating in the first place.

 

[Enoch111]

Martin Luther was a mixed blessing. He joined the Catholics in persecuting the Anabaptists.

Seems like Luther could not get both his feet out of the swamp of false doctrines and practices. On one hand he was extremely committed to justification by grace through faith, but then he cancelled this belief by teaching that water baptism was necessary for salvation (as does the Catholic Church). And that is why he (and the other Reformers) persecuted the Anabaptists.

 

[Marymog]

They were supplied with many lists of candidate suggestions from different sources in the Church at large. The Epistle of Barnabas was on 6 of those lists, yet they failed to accept it. I think I know why. It had a prophecy in it, but the timing of the fulfillment would not have been for over a 1000 years from their time. It would have caused much confusion and maybe apathy, seeing as the return of Christ should always be "imminent." It just so happens that the prophecy could be fulfilled now! Maybe that is why God waited for an intact copy of it to not be discovered and republished until the late 1700's. As I recall, not even all the books we do have hit the lists. I think they decided to include anything with Paul's signature. The similarities of content between The Epistle of Barnabas and Hebrews makes me believe Barnabas wrote Hebrews, as it does not have Paul's signature anywhere, but definitely written by a Jew, and not a forgery by a Greek in Alexandria.

These are my own conclusions, so you can take them or leave them. I am content either way. But judge by the Spirit, not blind faith, and not just a man-made denominational stance. If the E of B was included in our Bible with its clear commandment against abortion and infanticide, maybe 65,000,000 babies in America alone would not have been chosen to be killed by their own mothers. But, there again, if those mothers cared what God thought, they wouldn't have been fornicating in the first place.

Why would God guide them to the correct 27 but not guide them to the correct 30? Or 33? Or 55?

Historically we know that The Church debated which letters should be in the NT. They eventually decided on the 27 letters. If we are wondering 'should there be more' because the "decisions of man" might be wrong then logic would say maybe 2 or 3 or even 5 of the 27 they did pick could be wrong....because of the "decisions of man". At what point does faith come in?

Basically the criteria is they were either written by an apostle or by one close to an apostle.....and consistent with both the Old Testament and with the teachings of the Apostles......experienced widespread use in the churches or have a long history of being held in esteem by the church.....and agreed with an orthodox understanding of theology. In Alexandria (around 200AD) the Epistle of Barnabas was not regarded by every one as an inspired writing because it wasn't doctrinally sound.

Historical Mary

 

[Enoch111]

The Epistle of Barnabas and Hebrews makes me believe Barnabas wrote Hebrews, as it does not have Paul's signature anywhere, but definitely written by a Jew, and not a forgery by a Greek in Alexandria.

Since the epistle of Barnabas has been excluded from the NT canon, you should accept it as such. It has a lot of truth mixed in with a little bit of error. And there is no way that Barnabas wrote Hebrews, since there is internal evidence that Paul wrote that epistle.

DOCTRINAL ERRORS IN BARNABAS
1. Makes the six literal days of creation (as confirmed in the Ten Commandments) into metaphorical days of a thousand years each.

2. Changes the 7th day sabbath into an 8th day sabbath (because of the resurrection of Christ on the first day of the week).

3. Changes the literal dietary laws of the Old Covenant into metaphorical laws.

4. Claims that fasting was not to be literal fasting.

5. Alleges that the twelve apostles were extremely unrighteous before they were called by Christ.

There could be other errors, but Barnabas is definitely not inspired Scripture.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Why would God guide them to the correct 27 but not guide them to the correct 30? Or 33? Or 55?

I only think one is missing making the number divisible by 7. 28 And that is why I believe that the Epistle of Barnabas is the missing book for our time.

Basically the criteria is they were either written by an apostle or by one close to an apostle.....and consistent with both the Old Testament and with the teachings of the Apostles......experienced widespread use in the churches or have a long history of being held in esteem by the church.....and agreed with an orthodox understanding of theology. In Alexandria (around 200AD) the Epistle of Barnabas was not regarded by every one as an inspired writing because it wasn't doctrinally sound.

Did you write this, or did you find this somewhere. I have read it many times and do find it doctrinally sound. Barnabas was an apostle.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Since the epistle of Barnabas has been excluded from the NT canon, you should accept it as such. It has a lot of truth mixed in with a little bit of error. And there is no way that Barnabas wrote Hebrews, since there is internal evidence that Paul wrote that epistle.

DOCTRINAL ERRORS IN BARNABAS
1. Makes the six literal days of creation (as confirmed in the Ten Commandments) into metaphorical days of a thousand years each.

2. Changes the 7th day sabbath into an 8th day sabbath (because of the resurrection of Christ on the first day of the week).

3. Changes the literal dietary laws of the Old Covenant into metaphorical laws.

4. Claims that fasting was not to be literal fasting.

5. Alleges that the twelve apostles were extremely unrighteous before they were called by Christ.

There could be other errors, but Barnabas is definitely not inspired Scripture.

As the saying goes, "Don't should on me."

Did you write this? Or who wrote it? I see errors in their or your deductions. BTW, are you a Seventh-day Adventist? I can only see them or Messianics not wanting Christ to have fulfilled the Sabbath.