SinSinSin

[BarneyFife]

Jesus said from the Cross, however, Te Telestai (It is finsihed)

What exactly was finished?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, are we no longer forgiven if we fail to keep the law perfectly?

And, if that is the case, is that not the same thing as saying that we are justified by the law?

However, the scripture says,

Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Be careful here. Paul is saying we are not made righteous by the law, and so we are not justified by the law that way. But the commandments of God that remain for his people to fulfill and uphold do in fact show us to be righteous, and so we are justified by the law that way.

That's what James' argument is about when he says, "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24) in apparent contradiction to Paul. James' argument is our works justify us in that they SHOW us to be righteous. Paul's argument is our works can't justify us in that they can't MAKE us righteous.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

How does your understanding of the gospel line up with John 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

What does the scripture say regarding the gospel in totality; that’s the question.

Once Saved Always Saved only uses certain scriptures plainly, while perverting others.

John 3:16 KJVS
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Compare with:

John 10:27-28 KJVS
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

There are two conditions to never perishing:

1. Hearing Jesus’ voice.
2. Following Jesus.

More scriptures to learn what following and hearing the Lord entails:

Luke 6:27-29 KJVS
[27] But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, [28] Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. [29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

How about following Christ?

1 Peter 2:20-22 KJVS
[20] For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. [21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth

This is confirmed here:

Philippians 1:29 KJVS
[29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Because he that follows Christ and obeys him while suffering:

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJVS
[1] ...hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

So if you are not partaking in the sufferings, you will not partake in the consolidation of salvation realized in the end:

2 Corinthians 1:7 KJVS
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

And if you don’t obey the sayings of Christ and his Apostles, well:

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

There’s so much more scripture I could use to show the totality of the true biblical gospel, but it would be a long post. And some here are dull of hearing.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

 

[justbyfaith]

What exactly was finished?

The work of providing forgiveness for our sins; the work of paying the penalty for our sins so that we would not have to pay that penalty ourselves.

 

[ChristisGod]

What does the scripture say regarding the gospel in totality; that’s the question.

Once Saved Always Saved only uses certain scriptures plainly, while perverting others.

John 3:16 KJVS
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Compare with:

John 10:27-28 KJVS
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

There are two conditions to never perishing:

1. Hearing Jesus’ voice.
2. Following Jesus.

More scriptures to learn what following and hearing the Lord entails:

Luke 6:27-29 KJVS
[27] But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, [28] Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. [29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

How about following Christ?

1 Peter 2:20-22 KJVS
[20] For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. [21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth

This is confirmed here:

Philippians 1:29 KJVS
[29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Because he that follows Christ and obeys him while suffering:

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJVS
[1] ...hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

So if you are not partaking in the sufferings, you will not partake in the consolidation of salvation realized in the end:

2 Corinthians 1:7 KJVS
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

And if you don’t obey the sayings of Christ and his Apostles, well:

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

There’s so much more scripture I could use to show the totality of the true biblical gospel, but it would be a long post. And some here are dull of hearing.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

you like to make things up I see since NOT A SINLGE VERSE you posted mentioned the GOSPEL.

nuff said.............................

back to the drawing board for mrs/mr michiah

 

[justbyfaith]

you like to make things up I see since NOT A SINLGE VERSE you posted mentioned the GOSPEL.

nuff said.............................

back to the drawing board for mrs/mr michiah

No...it should be clear that anytime Paul preached, he was preaching the gospel.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you like to make things up I see since NOT A SINLGE VERSE you posted mentioned the GOSPEL.

nuff said.............................

back to the drawing board for mrs/mr michiah

Did you miss, or ignore, post # 376?

That’s just a sample. If you still refuse to point to me where the gospel is; I’ll be more than happy to keep giving you pieces of it from the scriptures here and there.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little

 

[ChristisGod]

Still came up empty

 

[Waiting on him]

What exactly was finished?

Reconciliation.

 

[justbyfaith]

What does the scripture say regarding the gospel in totality; that’s the question.

Once Saved Always Saved only uses certain scriptures plainly, while perverting others.

John 3:16 KJVS
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Compare with:

John 10:27-28 KJVS
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

There are two conditions to never perishing:

1. Hearing Jesus’ voice.
2. Following Jesus.

More scriptures to learn what following and hearing the Lord entails:

Luke 6:27-29 KJVS
[27] But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, [28] Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. [29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

How about following Christ?

1 Peter 2:20-22 KJVS
[20] For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. [21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth

This is confirmed here:

Philippians 1:29 KJVS
[29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Because he that follows Christ and obeys him while suffering:

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJVS
[1] ...hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

So if you are not partaking in the sufferings, you will not partake in the consolidation of salvation realized in the end:

2 Corinthians 1:7 KJVS
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

And if you don’t obey the sayings of Christ and his Apostles, well:

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

There’s so much more scripture I could use to show the totality of the true biblical gospel, but it would be a long post. And some here are dull of hearing.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Also, Jesus knows His sheep (John 10:27); and therefore those who work iniquity are not the recipients of the three-fold assurance given in John 10:28-30 (see Matthew 7:23).

 

[Addy]

But there is no doubt that multitudes today have been lulled into a place where the Spirit cannot convict them because they see no real danger of continuing in sin, and the root of that sin is unbelief in the fullness of God's salvation.

My Dear Gideon... I read your entire answer to me... and all I could see in your words were STRIVING... SELF-EFFORT and more SELF-DISCIPLINE to keep in God's good books... I also read a God who will NOT accept the dirty, broken sinner because he is not wanting help badly enough.

I am not going to argue with you... You have this belief that it is your job to judge other Christians and WARN them instead of simply walking your own walk. You say you are doing this in LOVE... Judging others is NOT loving... especially when you do not have all the facts of a situation.. I tried to share this with you privately... but you do not seem to be able to accept this.

YES the bible is for correction... and even rebuking at times... but this is supposed to be done in the confines of families and churches... When rebuking or correcting someone there is an order to how it is supposed to be done... and it is to be done IN LOVE. It is done in a personal way and one to one from someone of good Christian standing.

Anyone can climb up on their soap box... point fingers and accuse... I read it all the time in these forums.

Bless you Gideon and Merry Christmas. No need to respond... you have enough on your plate here.

 

[justbyfaith]

Judging others is NOT loving...

Phl 1:9, And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What sin is not willful?

There is sin you commit in the heat of the moment. Contrast that with marking your calendar to watch the next episode of your favorite pornographic series on cable. Big difference between the two.

It's not that sin is a faith killer, although with a legalist view, it becomes that, rather, sin is because we've faltered in our faith.

Sin can harden the heart in unbelief....

Hebrews 3:12-13
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.

You can sin because of unbelief. You can be in unbelief because of sin. Both are true.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Those commands being to trust Jesus and love others.

Much love!

This is how you trust Jesus and love others.

Do not steal.
Do not commit adultery.
Do not bear false witness.
Do not bear a grudge.
Do not show favoritism.
.....

Get the idea?

But the church has this weird idea that we don't keep the law, and that all we have to do is love. They seem oblivious to the fact that the law is how we love others, and that the command itself to love others is the law (Leviticus 19:18).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Warm fuzzies? That's not what I'm talking about. Inner transformation and communion with God.

Much love!

"Inner transformation and communion with God", but nothing on the outside. That's what I'm talking about. That's not the love we are commanded to have.

1 John 4:20
20If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar.

James 2:14-16
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that?

1 John 3:17-18
17If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him?18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Was Paul mean here:

Acts of the Apostles 13:10?

Was Jesus mean here:

Matthew 23:33?

Was Peter mean here:

2 Peter 2:14?

Surely they had the fruits of the Spirit though offering sharp rebukes at times.

And even Paul chose rather to use strong language in his epistles so he wouldn’t have to rebuke his readers sharply in person.

2 Corinthians 13:10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

My favorite rebuke in the Bible....

Galatians 5:12
12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Actually, it will be...for many (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 has nothing to do with personal holiness. It's about rewards for effective ministry service in the field and building of God, and loss of rewards for ineffective ministry service in the field and building of God. Your effectiveness one way or the other in ministry doesn't affect whether you will be saved or not on the day of Christ. That is not true of personal holiness. The person who does not live for God in this life is an unbeliever, and if they don't repent and get a new life, they will be condemned at the return of Christ, not saved. So we know the passage is not about that.

 

[Gideons300]

My Dear Gideon... I read your entire answer to me... and all I could see in your words were STRIVING... SELF-EFFORT and more SELF-DISCIPLINE to keep in God's good books... I also read a God who will NOT accept the dirty, broken sinner because he is not wanting help badly enough.

I am not going to argue with you... You have this belief that it is your job to judge other Christians and WARN them instead of simply walking your own walk. You say you are doing this in LOVE... Judging others is NOT loving... especially when you do not have all the facts of a situation.. I tried to share this with you privately... but you do not seem to be able to accept this.

YES the bible is for correction... and even rebuking at times... but this is supposed to be done in the confines of families and churches... When rebuking or correcting someone there is an order to how it is supposed to be done... and it is to be done IN LOVE. It is done in a personal way and one to one from someone of good Christian standing.

Anyone can climb up on their soap box... point fingers and accuse... I read it all the time in these forums.

Bless you Gideon and Merry Christmas. No need to respond... you have enough on your plate here.

Just one thing to think about. If I am in error, even if my intent is good (and it is), all that happens is that it makes saints temporarily feel guilty but does nothing to affect their eternity. Right?

However, if I am correct, if sin can harden hearts and cause men's faith to die, leading them to depart from the living God, and in the end, keeping them from Heaven, is the cost worth the risk?

We are to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. In times past, ignorance allowed God to wink at our sins, but that door is closing. You have assumed my words are judging and that is not the case. It is your ears and eyes that 'hear and see' judgment when there is none intended.

God has a way to help each one of us, no matter how weak, to walk in complete victory, to be able to keep our bodies under, to bring every thought into subjection to Christ in us, to walk as overcomers and to see satan actually flee from us in defeat, BUT.... we first must WANT that, and secondly, we must get desperate enough to believe that He can back up what He has promised to do for us... IN us.

I believe that the coming shakings will bring each and every child of God to that place of faith, but how much more will it please Him if we break before Him NOW, and ask for the faith to believe that we truly are new creatures and can say no to the enemy every time that we are tempted to disobey?

blessings to you,

Gids

 

[Addy]

Just one thing to think about. If I am in error, even if my intent is good (and it is), all that happens is that it makes saints temporarily feel guilty but does nothing to affect their eternity. Right?

Your posts don't make other Christians feel guilty Gideon. From what I have read... that you have written... your posts are filled with STRIVING and SELF-EFFORT mixed in with JUDGEMENT of the brethren... so your posts more likely than not... simply make Christians angry.

Your reflections of WHO GOD is and WHAT HE "expects" from our own works ( which are like dirty rags ) is simply giving GOD a bad name.

It is HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS that makes us righteous... There is NOTHING we can think... say... or DO to add to the wonderful gift of SALVATION. It is our LOVE for HIM... our DEVOTION to HIM... our INTIMACY with HIM that leads to us NOT sinning...When a soul KNOWS that they are GLORIOUSLY loved by CHRIST... they cannot help but RADIATE this by acting in a becoming way that is Christ-like... This is a life-long process called sanctification... and has nothing to do with self-talk... discipline... or self-effort. Sanctification is also a SACRED process between creator and sinner... Sadly... a great number of believers seem to think it's their business to step in and misjudge others' situations and conditions.

I used to be angry with Christians who condemned others as you do.... but now I am just sad... as it mis-represents the heart of Father... and the love HE has for His children.

I have spent the better part of a year trying to petition your heart on the matter of God's Grace and I am finished. In your eyes I am not getting it and in my eyes.. you are not wanting it... therefore we are at a stalemate. I bless you Gideon... and I wish you PEACE and REST.

 

[ChristisGod]

No...it should be clear that anytime Paul preached, he was preaching the gospel.

so every word he penned in his epistles is the gospel ?

yikes