So again what is growing in the Lord all about?

[stunnedbygrace]

Many apparently have received the gift of the Holy Ghost, but the Holy Ghost teaches us, only, as we allow ourselves to listen. The Holy Ghost is not always finished on a given point when we close up our spiritual ears as if we had already heard it all.

okay, this has made me laugh uproariously.
A small child has many words to learn. But what’s the first one they latch onto, closing their ears to all others? It’s the word that makes them feel most powerful. And then they repeat it over and over.

NO!

 

[amadeus]

This is a subject whether a conscious or unconscious effort is made to divide or become divisive, or the opposite, to enjoin or combine, harmonize messages of thoughts and then with actions leading to divisions or union of doctrines and in the understanding of scripture.

You speak of things especially of the mind, the emotions and of doing things the right way and better, more like God would have us to do...

But consider also the ways of the flesh as they seem to be:

Babies become children, become teenagers, become adults, become feeble old men. That is the way of the flesh as it first grows and then decays onto death. Within the growth portion up to the mature man at the peak of his strength is a type or shadow of real growth in God. The important difference is that the decaying onto death need never happen for the new man, the born from above man...

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26

It is as old as when scripture was written down and recorded and then reproduced. Believers have been doing it from the start. Struggling to come to one accord and understanding of scripture and then formulating sound doctrine on this common understanding.

The struggles occur within the hearts of people yearning for a better way. How much do they really want these things? Consider what Jesus said here:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

That is a promise, but how does one become so hungry for things so that God will fill them? Certainly Not by study alone! Rather ask of Him...

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matt 7:7-11

Also, human error can easily be introduced intentionally or not if we are NOT in the Spirit of truth at that time of communicating spiritual messages and scripture. Being in the Spirit is the key component to this entire discussion.

Indeed! Getting into the Spirit and staying there all of the time, I do believe, is the right answer. Paul emphasizes that here giving us some of those impossible things to do:

"Rejoice evermore.
Pray without ceasing.
In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:16-19

Yes, for a man of flesh all alone, they are impossible, but again if we ask of God from our heart will He not hear us?

Secondly, we are usually in the midst of believers or not, who are all at different stages of maturity in the Lord. Those more acquainted in the Spirit and with more knowledge of spiritual truth, the seasoned and mature in the Lord, they must accommodate those drinkers of milk to the point of communicating scripture and doctrine effectively that causes edification and the release of fruits of the Spirit on both sides, of a discussion or debate. And we know when this point is reached and achieved. And we usually sense when this also has not been achieved.

What we are able to sense, I believe, is according our discernment of the things of God versus the things of mammon. How good are our eyes and our ears, spiritually speaking?

We also usually have 'trouble' frustration or discord when there are two or more involved in a discussion or debate who are all, or the majority audience, still viewing scripture and doctrine through the lenses of new basic truth; of the new or immature believers. The Spirit will NOT make any one of them aware of MORE NEW truth immediately until it is TIME. This is where those, as immature believers, can easily be tempted to force their carnal mind side into the mix to reinforce and expose their ignorance, and usually arguments or heated discussions easily ensue.

Even a mature in the Lord believer can and does have trouble when he lets his good past experiences and his knowledge received from God go to his head. Pride can get hold of anyone who takes his eyes off of the Lord and contemplates himself:

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." Prov 16:18

"For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted" Luke 14:11

Paul's words come to life for this topic like in Ephesians 4:11-14

11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers,
12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

Blessings to all,

APAK

Amen! God has provided gifted people, people with what is needed when it is needed for those in need.
Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

okay, this has made me laugh uproariously.
A small child has many words to learn. But what’s the first one they latch onto, closing their ears to all others? It’s the word that makes them feel most powerful. And then they repeat it over and over.

NO!

LOL!
Even so... We are to God still children, even any of us who may have come to believe that we know whole lot about God and the things of God.

"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:12-17
When it seems perhaps that the lust of the flesh and the lust of the flesh are behind then there ever attracting us is that Pride of life.
Help us dear Lord!

 

[APAK]

You speak of things especially of the mind, the emotions and of doing things the right way and better, more like God would have us to do...

But consider also the ways of the flesh as they seem to be:

Babies become children, become teenagers, become adults, become feeble old men. That is the way of the flesh as it first grows and then decays onto death. Within the growth portion up to the mature man at the peak of his strength is a type or shadow of real growth in God. The important difference is that the decaying onto death need never happen for the new man, the born from above man...

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26

Yes of course, the cycle of limited physical human life cannot compare to the eternal spiritual life we have in Christ.

Indeed! Getting into the Spirit and staying there all of the time, I do believe, is the right answer.

Without a doubt...

Even a mature in the Lord believer can and does have trouble when he lets his good past experiences and his knowledge received from God go to his head.

Yes of course, although I was only covering and emphasizing the main keys to a more harmonious and more fruitful discussion for the sake of brevity. Immature believers are the main cause of most disruptions in my experience. Getting some old timers in a discussion can of course cause much stubbornness and pride.

Bless you amadeus. Have a great week!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Isaiah has some very strong words to say about growing in the Lord...
Here are a few;
Isaiah 28 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁷ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
⁸ For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
⁹ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
¹⁰ For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
¹¹ For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
¹² To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
¹³ But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[APAK]

Isaiah has some very strong words to say about growing in the Lord...
Here are a few;
Isaiah 28 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁷ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
⁸ For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
⁹ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
¹⁰ For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
¹¹ For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
¹² To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
¹³ But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

H2S, you have brought up a significance passage of scripture for this topic. Those who are believers and champions of the truth, of strong faith with a gift of knowledge of scripture, must know who they are teaching so their expectations can be realistically set without disappointment.

Those best for instruction and teaching the knowledge of the word of God are those that act in heart and mind like children. We do not teach those that do not have the real thirst and eagerness to learn as children. We do not teach those that are impatient and carry their own preconceived views of the instruction, that also can mock and belittle the intent and contents of the instruction, or those that have prideful hearts and will resist every portion or step of instruction.

As an instructor of the word, we teach as a kindergarten teacher. We teach adults and spiritual children of God, sound by sound, syllable by syllable, word by word, with breaks in between for rest and reinforcement, then with repetition, as in a nursery. Percept upon percept, line upon line...

This method of teaching does not work well for an adult whose mind is not open to new knowledge, and with a heart of pride and stubbornness. And nothing can be gained by teaching an adult who has vices, like strong drink and personal issues, and who would scoff and even scorn a teacher of the word.

An adult with a spiritual child like heart and mind is teachable. Being humble, innocent and non judgmental as to criticize the instruction of the teacher, and even the person.

 

[Heart2Soul]

H2S, you have brought up a significance passage of scripture for this topic. Those who are believers and champions of the truth, of strong faith with a gift of knowledge of scripture, must know who they are teaching so their expectations can be realistically set without disappointment.

Those best for instruction and teaching the knowledge of the word of God are those that act in heart and mind like children. We do not teach those that do not have the real thirst and eagerness to learn as children. We do not teach those that are impatient and carry their own preconceived views of the instruction, that also can mock and belittle the intent and contents of the instruction, or those that have prideful hearts and will resist every portion or step of instruction.

As an instructor of the word, we teach as a kindergarten teacher. We teach adults and spiritual children of God, sound by sound, syllable by syllable, word by word, with breaks in between for rest and reinforcement, then with repetition, as in a nursery. Percept upon percept, line upon line...

This method of teaching does not work well for an adult whose mind is not open to new knowledge, and with a heart of pride and stubbornness. And nothing can be gained by teaching an adult who has vices, like strong drink and personal issues, and who would scoff and even scorn a teacher of the word.

An adult with a spiritual child like heart and mind is teachable. Being humble, innocent and non judgmental as to criticize the instruction of the teacher, and even the person.

Very well stated! Wow! I am impressed at the depth of wisdom you have in those scriptures....Praise God that He has such servants as yourself and amadeus who can teach His Truth without err.
God Bless

 

[marks]

This method of teaching does not work well for an adult whose mind is not open to new knowledge, and with a heart of pride and stubbornness. And nothing can be gained by teaching an adult who has vices, like strong drink and personal issues, and who would scoff and even scorn a teacher of the word.

I like what you wrote, but I don't know I agree with this part. I think the patient line upon line works good for those who are older and more set in their ways. It just might take significantly greater repetition to get through. And more patience and love may be required.



Much love!

 

[APAK]

I like what you wrote, but I don't know I agree with this part. I think the patient line upon line works good for those who are older and more set in their ways. It just might take significantly greater repetition to get through. And more patience and love may be required.



Much love!

Well for these 'old timers,' if I understand you correctly, will then have to stay later after class and call their loved ones they will miss supper.....LOL

 

[Truman]

Isaiah has some very strong words to say about growing in the Lord...
Here are a few;
Isaiah 28 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁷ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
⁸ For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
⁹ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
¹⁰ For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
¹¹ For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
¹² To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
¹³ But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

This, to me, is the most sobering chapter in the book. I will, can, never forget.

 

[Enoch111]

Invitations to everyone:

I don't see myself listed, but I will butt in anyhow. All one has to do is read and apply what Peter has said in his second epistle:

2 PETER 1: WHAT GROWING IN THE LORD IS ALL ABOUT
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[marks]

Well for these 'old timers,' if I understand you correctly, will then have to stay later after class and call their loved ones they will miss supper.....LOL

Yes, sometimes it's a slow process. But worthwhile in the end!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well for these 'old timers,' if I understand you correctly, will then have to stay later after class and call their loved ones they will miss supper.....LOL

Have you read Tolstoy's "Walk in the light while there is light"? Wonderful short story!

At the end, the old man, having finally come in, is being shown into the vineyard to work. The vines are triving, vibrant, and the young and strong are surging this way and that, singing, with their bushels full of grapes. But No, this is not for you. He is led to the next field, where middle age has slowed them all down, and the vines are older, heavier, but not so much with grapes. Still, they fill their baskets as they work, reflecting in silence.

(I'm paraphrasing this hugely, maybe just wholesale rewriting at this point!)

Fitting! They are here when they are young and strong, and they bring the strength of their lives, and receive a bounteous harvest. And these older ones, still, they have some strength remaining, and still, with serious, gather in.

And he is taken to the last field, overgrown, untended, and nothing to harvest. Fitting for me! In tears he surveys his end, a vineyard with no vintage! Don't cry! A man stands there, looking as old and grey as he feels. These vines aren't empty, look here, look there, do you see them? And slowly, he probes the shadows, and begins to gather his harvest.

It's better to come early!

Much love!

 

[Heart2Soul]

H2S, you have brought up a significance passage of scripture for this topic. Those who are believers and champions of the truth, of strong faith with a gift of knowledge of scripture, must know who they are teaching so their expectations can be realistically set without disappointment.

Those best for instruction and teaching the knowledge of the word of God are those that act in heart and mind like children. We do not teach those that do not have the real thirst and eagerness to learn as children. We do not teach those that are impatient and carry their own preconceived views of the instruction, that also can mock and belittle the intent and contents of the instruction, or those that have prideful hearts and will resist every portion or step of instruction.

As an instructor of the word, we teach as a kindergarten teacher. We teach adults and spiritual children of God, sound by sound, syllable by syllable, word by word, with breaks in between for rest and reinforcement, then with repetition, as in a nursery. Percept upon percept, line upon line...

This method of teaching does not work well for an adult whose mind is not open to new knowledge, and with a heart of pride and stubbornness. And nothing can be gained by teaching an adult who has vices, like strong drink and personal issues, and who would scoff and even scorn a teacher of the word.

An adult with a spiritual child like heart and mind is teachable. Being humble, innocent and non judgmental as to criticize the instruction of the teacher, and even the person.

This also ties in very well with growing in the Lord....it has to do with building on the foundation the Jesus laid....the strong material represents wisdom, knowledge and understanding of God's Word and rightly dividing the truth
1 Corinthians 3 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁰ According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
¹¹ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
¹² Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
¹³ Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
¹⁴ If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
¹⁵ If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[APAK]

Have you read Tolstoy's "Walk in the light while there is light"? Wonderful short story!

At the end, the old man, having finally come in, is being shown into the vineyard to work. The vines are triving, vibrant, and the young and strong are surging this way and that, singing, with their bushels full of grapes. But No, this is not for you. He is led to the next field, where middle age has slowed them all down, and the vines are older, heavier, but not so much with grapes. Still, they fill their baskets as they work, reflecting in silence.

(I'm paraphrasing this hugely, maybe just wholesale rewriting at this point!)

Fitting! They are here when they are young and strong, and they bring the strength of their lives, and receive a bounteous harvest. And these older ones, still, they have some strength remaining, and still, with serious, gather in.

And he is taken to the last field, overgrown, untended, and nothing to harvest. Fitting for me! In tears he surveys his end, a vineyard with no vintage! Don't cry! A man stands there, looking as old and grey as he feels. These vines aren't empty, look here, look there, do you see them? And slowly, he probes the shadows, and begins to gather his harvest.

It's better to come early!

Much love!

No I have not read the Short story. Seems very inciteful and even spiritual food for the soul...Great and informative post

 

[APAK]

This also ties in very well with growing in the Lord....it has to do with building on the foundation the Jesus laid....the strong material represents wisdom, knowledge and understanding of God's Word and rightly dividing the truth
1 Corinthians 3 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁰ According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
¹¹ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
¹² Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
¹³ Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
¹⁴ If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
¹⁵ If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Yes, we gain more favor and lasting rewards in the next life if we stick to acts and works guided by the will of the Spirit and not by our own ambitions. By getting ahead of the plan for our lives with ourselves in mind first, we waste our energies and time in the service of the Lord and reap discredited works in the end. All this shall be revealed in time.

 

[amadeus]

I don't see myself listed, but I will butt in anyhow. All one has to do is read and apply what Peter has said in his second epistle:

2 PETER 1: WHAT GROWING IN THE LORD IS ALL ABOUT
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sorry! I did not neglect to include anyone's name on purpose. There is not an easy list to copy for that purpose. I simply went through several threads of the forum itself quickly copying names to make the invitation as personal as possible. Please forgive the oversight.

Thank you for your contribution!

 

[amadeus]

Have you read Tolstoy's "Walk in the light while there is light"? Wonderful short story!

At the end, the old man, having finally come in, is being shown into the vineyard to work. The vines are triving, vibrant, and the young and strong are surging this way and that, singing, with their bushels full of grapes. But No, this is not for you. He is led to the next field, where middle age has slowed them all down, and the vines are older, heavier, but not so much with grapes. Still, they fill their baskets as they work, reflecting in silence.

(I'm paraphrasing this hugely, maybe just wholesale rewriting at this point!)

Fitting! They are here when they are young and strong, and they bring the strength of their lives, and receive a bounteous harvest. And these older ones, still, they have some strength remaining, and still, with serious, gather in.

And he is taken to the last field, overgrown, untended, and nothing to harvest. Fitting for me! In tears he surveys his end, a vineyard with no vintage! Don't cry! A man stands there, looking as old and grey as he feels. These vines aren't empty, look here, look there, do you see them? And slowly, he probes the shadows, and begins to gather his harvest.

It's better to come early!

Much love!

So it is with the flesh, but is it that way with the Spirit of the new man of us? I think not!

 

[Waiting on him]

So it is with the flesh, but is it that way with the Spirit of the new man of us? I think not!

Moses’s eye never went dim.

 

[BarneyFife]

Moses’s eye never went dim.

Nor was his natural force abated.