Spare The Rod ~ Spoil The Child...Should We Spank Our Children ?

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aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Yes i know...kids today shouldn't be spanked because their i pad,i pod,video games and work free,responsability free lives are so difficult....one of the most disgusting things about American culture is how we try to excuse our sins by whinning about how tough our lives are.

It so difficult to live the christian life with all these temptations,wah wah wah....the bible says that no one is tempted by anything that is not common to man.

The bible says nothing about cause and affect,it says we are drawn to sin by our own desires and lust and sinful nature...man or woman or child for that matter on an island all by themselves would still find a way to sin.

As usual, you are interpreting the reality of the postmordern world as 'whining'. Stating reality is not whining. Ignoring reality does not make it go away, nor does it make you noble.

Also, nice job reframing what I said as 'technological advancement in the hands of our kids means that they should no longer receive spankings as punishment' - what a fantasy world, you must live in. 'If he doesn't say what you want him to say, attribute whatever nonsense you can to his post - the more ridiculous the better' - ah the ethics of the intellectually dishonest.......classic.

"The bible says nothing about cause and affect,it says we are drawn to sin by our own desires and lust and sinful nature."

Oh, I see!! So the Bible says nothing about cause and effect, it says we are drawn to sin (effect) by our desires and lust, and sinful nature (cause). Sure glad I have a smart guy like you around to interpret the Bible for me.
 

Strat

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Mar 25, 2012
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As usual, you are interpreting the reality of the postmordern world as 'whining'. Stating reality is not whining. Ignoring reality does not make it go away, nor does it make you noble.

Also, nice job reframing what I said as 'technological advancement in the hands of our kids means that they should no longer receive spankings as punishment' - what a fantasy world, you must live in. 'If he doesn't say what you want him to say, attribute whatever nonsense you can to his post - the more ridiculous the better' - ah the ethics of the intellectually dishonest.......classic.

"The bible says nothing about cause and affect,it says we are drawn to sin by our own desires and lust and sinful nature."

Oh, I see!! So the Bible says nothing about cause and effect, it says we are drawn to sin (effect) by our desires and lust, and sinful nature (cause). Sure glad I have a smart guy like you around to interpret the Bible for me.

As usual you think the Bible is made null and void by the postmodern world...you blame sin on circusmtances (cause) the bible does not do so,it says we are sinners by nature and sin apart from any cause,Jesus was tempted but did not sin because there was no sin in him while we sin in thought word and deed regardless of where we are or what we are doing....you always say what i expect you to say because you are a modern christian having all the traits of modern christianity
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
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noncorporal punishment often takes more effort than spanking - it also doesn't allow the parent to take out any anger on their kids,

I wouldn't be so sure about that . . . .
If a parent wants to take their anger out on a kid, there's plenty of non-physical ways to do it.
 

mjrhealth

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Mar 15, 2009
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The consequences of not smacking lets see.

Kids of today,

Are told they have rights,
You do not have to do what your parents say.,
You can do what you like when you like,
There is no consequences for your actions , ( even shots of smashed up cars and the growing list of young dead drivers doesnt deter them)
If your parents yell it you, its verbal abuse.
If the smack you, its physical abuse
if they withhold something from you is physiological abuse

And so we compare, when I was young 9 year olds didnt murded people, when I was young it was reasonably safe to walk the streets alone. Kids respected the police, because if the didnt they got a walloping, and soo learned not to do it again. kids actually respected their parents and their opinions, oh thats a thought, respect, not sure if its in the current dictionary. I too got a smacking even when i didnt deserve it but like most from my time it did us no harm.
satan is winning the battle for the minds of our children, and the governments have much to answer for as do the goody goodies, who keep coming up with these ridiculous laws, which one day they will have to answer for.

in all His Love
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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ok Strat, glad we uncovered your latest limitation,

Unfortunately, without a basic understanding of cause and effect, you are not qualified to engage in adult conversation, goodnight then.

I wouldn't be so sure about that . . . .
If a parent wants to take their anger out on a kid, there's plenty of non-physical ways to do it.

fair enough.
 

Stan

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Jul 19, 2012
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spanking is not abuse, it is just not very effective.

Really? You're not a parent and yet you have it all figured out?

Spanking works and God's word confirms it. The ROD is just that, a physical form used to address rebellion or disobedience when other methods fail. I raised 4 kids and it WORKED. Didn't have to do it very often. I remember 4 or 5 times.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Really? You're not a parent and yet you have it all figured out?

Spanking works and God's word confirms it. The ROD is just that, a physical form used to address rebellion or disobedience when other methods fail. I raised 4 kids and it WORKED. Didn't have to do it very often. I remember 4 or 5 times.

Since when do parents have it all figured out? I may not be a parent, but I have raised a neice and I work with kids who are homeless everyday. I have nothing against spanking if it works. I have never seen it work as well as other forms of discipline.
 

Strat

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Mar 25, 2012
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ok Strat, glad we uncovered your latest limitation,

Unfortunately, without a basic understanding of cause and effect, you are not qualified to engage in adult conversation, goodnight then.



fair enough.


And likewise you have displayed your lack of ability to understand anything in a biblical context.. you being a secular humanist with christian leanings i understand why...if sin has a cause other than our sinful nature then we are all by definition innocent and Jesus had no reason to die...we are born sinners long before any cause is present in our lives.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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The problem is Strat, we agree that sin originates from our human nature. So how can I be a secular humanist with Christian leanings?
 

Strat

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The problem is Strat, we agree that sin originates from our human nature. So how can I be a secular humanist with Christian leanings?

Because you seem to believe that people are basically good and when they do sin its because of some outside influence...you don't seem to believe that people can be evil all on their own,that they can be the source of their own evil and therfore fully responsable.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Because you seem to believe that people are basically good and when they do sin its because of some outside influence...you don't seem to believe that people can be evil all on their own,that they can be the source of their own evil and therfore fully responsable.

God created us in His image and declared all of His creation good - Genesis 1:26-31

He also gave us dominion over all of creation - including the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life and even the serpent. Unfortunately, Adam and Eve submitted to the very things they had dominion over......the very act of listening to the serpent was a misuse of creation and an act of idolatry. Therefore, they lost their birthright.

We learned to sin and blame creation for doing so (trusting our own judgment over God's) from the serpent - Genesis 3:13

There is no mention of absolute depravity in the story of Adam and Eve - they were cut off from the Tree of Life and kicked out of the Garden - life became harder for them for sure, but they were still created in God's image.

Therefore, they remained basically good, but had the tendency to sin - and because of their broken relationship with God, sin (self reliance) became their first choice in all circumstances.

Today, Christians have a relationship with God, once more. We no longer have to make selfish/sinful choices.

Unfortunately, not everyone is a Christian, we share the world with people whom God loves, but choose to live outside His laws.

So this is where the heart of our disagreement lies - are Christians responsible for the choices/behaviors/lifestyles of nonbelievers? The answer is no. God allows the sinful to condemn themselves.

Nonbelievers have the freedom to live as secular humanists or hedonists or whatever they choose to do. In America, they have the freedom to live this way without persecution of the government if they are adults and do not present a danger to society or individuals.

What I do not understand is why certain Christians believe that our country must enforce God's laws on nonbelievers - as if the bad behavior of nonbelievers is going to invite God's wrath on the rest of us. God gives us freewill - if nonbelievers want to squander it, God permits them to do so - why are we trying to usurp God's authority over nonbelievers?

If I were a secular humanist, as you claim - I would believe that all humans were capable of immeasurable ability without God -that we could be both moral and immoral without contradiction or consequence - that we were our own god and responsible only to ourselves. I do not believe this idea at all. Without God we are lost. Ayn Rand is the epitome of secular humanism, which is why her philosophical ideal is embraced by Satanists - not sure why so many Republicans who claim to be Christians like her writings as well. In my opinion, her social Darwinian understanding of human existence is the antithesis of Christianity.

Finally, Christians are not called to babysit the damned. They are just as free to make choices as we are.

As far as believing outside influences make us sin - that cannot be farther from what I believe. If I believed that I could not be a counselor. If I believed people were not responsible for their actions I would not be able to help anyone make positive changes in their lives - I would just be sitting there in a counseling session agreeing with the latest victim of life sitting across from me.

Conversely, I see Christians blaming the Devil or demons for their bad behavior, all the time. Also, if you really believe people are completely depraved, how can you hold them responsible for anything? If people were completely evil - all their sinful behavior would be excused (mentally challenged people are not responsible for their inability to make reasoned, adult decisions, for example) and the blame would fall on God for not fixing them.

I believe people are basically good, but broken; God's sanctification is the fix. It is our job to practice our sanctification by loving others, sort of like an injured athlete has to participate in his own rehabilitation if he expects to regain his former abilities. We can only change the behavior we take responsibility for - and we can only change it within the context of a relationship with God.

So as a counselor, I help people take responsibility for their strengths and their weaknesses - if they are Christian, I remind them that as a child of God, they are created good and no longer have to live in the bondage of sin. If I believed outside forces controlled their behavior, I would have to believe that they were victims and teach them how to hide from life.