Spiritual Authority

[soulja boy]

testing

 

[geordie72]

Does Jesus support peace, or war? Matthew 5:39 "Resist not evil, but whoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Also note Matthew 6:38-42 & 26:52 where Jesus teaches non-resistance, Non-violence. Now read (Luke 22:36-37) Where Jesus commands people to take arms for a coming conflict. (John 2:15) Jesus uses a whip to physically drive people out of the temple.

 

[kestrel]

Just in the extraordinary case you care at all, geordiehttp://jeltzz.blogspot.com/2008/11/pax-christi-luke-2236.html

 

[soulja boy]

What does the word Church mean? It is a Greek Word “ecclesia” which simply means the called out. There is a true Church and a false Church; Baby lon is the false church; while the true Church is not a building, a system, denomination but Christ with in us, the hope of Glory. There are far too many so called ministries who act as if they are the voice of God but all they are is the voice of corporate headquarters.

Well said Benoni. It is as obvious as the nose at the end of your face. Having done a two year study of the scriptures into leadership of the NT church, I then compared it with today. As part of my study I wrote to denominational leaders and added that to my own observance of church leadership.The overwhelming evidence is that your first loyalty is to the denomination, then to your local assembly, then to the word of God. If it contradicts denominational tradition, it is to be ignored. The other sad fact is that most pastors do not want you to be more spiritual than they are. If someone has an annointing that the pastor does not have, they are usually sidelined into menial jobs or are kept inactive. Suggest that we should be doing things differently and you are immediately branded a rebel. As I have found time and time again, the implied message is that only the leadership can hear from God so we are tied to them for growth as God would not want to talk to us individually because we are not "God's annointed leader."If the truth were known, too many are "appointed" not "anointed" because they have satisfied the dictates of the denomination. I served under one so called "pastor' appointed by the denomination who was an inveterate liar and had a foul temper.

 

[Adstar]

in context[/B]Luke2236 Then He said to them' date=' “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”And He said to them, “It is enough.”What??? [B']two[/B] swords where enough??? Must have been another reason, Did you read what He said in verse 37. "this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors."So for those years previously He never told them to arm themselves only when He was on the very end of His ministry, just before His execution did he tell them to get weapons and even then He knew that only two swords where enough for His purpose.If you read scriptures ( and they should be taken as a whole not read as isolated verses like anti-christ like to do it) you shall read on that very day what purpose those swords where for.Matthew 2647 And while He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, with a great multitude with swords and clubs, came from the chief priests and elders of the people.48 Now His betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “Whomever I kiss, He is the One; seize Him.” 49 Immediately he went up to Jesus and said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed Him.50 But Jesus said to him, “Friend, why have you come?”Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took Him. 51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish[f] by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?” So there, No more need for the Swords. The swords where procured so that prophesy would be fulfilled and Also so that Jesus Could make a clear order to His followers not to use them. Oh Jesus then healed the man who had lost his ear. :) Jesus loved His enemies. John 215 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables.Jesus is Lord His orders to us is His orders to His followers. Is Jesus one of His own followers??? Answer NoTherefore the directions He gave us are His will for us to follow. He is not a follower of Himself, He is God. You bring up the incident in the temple but this is nothing compared to the Wrath He shall pour out on the world upon His return. It will not be just the odd man in a crowd of profiteers making money from religion that will feel the sting of a whip strike. But hundreds of Millions that will be struck unto death in the day of the Lord.All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[soulja boy]

Too often the culture of some local churches generates an overemphasis on submission to leaders who are systematically portrayed as having superior organisational and management skills which purportedly prove they are chosen by God to make decisions which should not be challenged.

This is a very valid comment as it is obvious if one cares to see what is going on. In one church I was in I was told not to do a certain thing as that is the pastor's job. The fact that God gave me a clear direction to do it and it resulted in someone being healed was of no consequence. After I had done a two year study of NT church leadership, three words seemed to describe them. Humility, servanthood and annointing epitomised by the Greek word "diakonos" which means to serve at tables. This word is applied to all ministry not just deacons. That should not surprise us as the word for clergy is not in the NT and there was no clergy/laity divide. You are what you are by the grace of God and you do what you do because of God's annointing, so no one can say I am better than anyone else or more important. We are warned not to boast as it suggests works [not annointing]. You don't have an annointing to teach because you are better than anyone else. You have it because God decided to give it to you. When Paul visited a church he had brought into being, he submitted to the Eldership that was appointed after he left, not to a pastor as there was no such thing. Priests/pastors or clergy were invented by Constantine who modelled the church on civil society so that was when the "clergy" started to be paid and as a result the rot set in. Frank Viola in his book "Pagan Christianity" says that the pastor is nothing more that a reformed catholic priest. Calvin invented the term "pastor" because he didn't like the term "priest." : In the middle ages most people didn't read and write so the minister who was educated, had to read the bible to them and explain what it meant. The church today is still using that model with the up front preacher. What you might call being 500 years out of date. The NT church met in homes daily and shared everything. Meals, teaching, fellowship and prayers. Notice no mention of worship (singing). Being a Jewish sect, the teaching would have followed the pattern of the Rabbi who had a small group meet with him (I think it was about 12 max) to learn together the tennents of their faith. He didn't preach at them. He encouraged dialogue and investigation. Not I talk, you listen with no opportunity to question what was being said.Apart from the fact the "I talk, you listen" is one of the worst forms of teaching you can use as you only retain 20% of what you hear. In addition long sermons are a waste of time as the attention span of the average person is 20 minutes. :) The methods we use today are a failure because it keeps the sheep dependant on the shepherd to the point where people have no desire to search the scriptures for themselves. They just accept what is dished up from the pulpit depsite the fact that they can read it for themselves and discern the meaning. I use the term 'failure' advisedly because the NT church had new converts added to them daily. Can anyone tell me of a single church today that is having new converts being added daily. I read the content of one of George Barna's surveys and it revealed that only 1% of the churches in the USA are growing and most of them are growing by transfer growth, not new converts.I guess if you have power over the people you are very reluctant to give that up in favour of a biblical pattern which does not give anyone superior status.